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Posted: 12/21/2001 5:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 5:04:20 PM EDT by FMJunkie]
I was so upset when I got home. Not because I will never set foot in the only store I've bought guns in since I started buying guns, but because I am so sick of the way things are around here. It doesn't matter who people screw as long as they make the buck. I really hate this state and 95% of the pathetic scum that clog its arteries.[-!-!-] I go into the store after work today to pick up a few boxes of ammo when I see they have 5 new Bushy's in the rack. Me not being one to pass up the chance to toss $800 bucks across the counter, I mosey down the end and take a gander. And what do my wondering eyes perceive? Why, its a big greedy f**k and 5 tiny rifles! Here is what he had, all new Bushmasters: 20" A2 - $800 20" A3 - $900 AK Shorty A2 - $900 AK Shorty A3 - $930 New M4 A3 - $970 Now, I have purchased all of my ARs at this very shop and I know exactly what each of them should be selling for. So, I very politely ask to have this interesting pricing scheme explained to me. FIRST, they tell me that "well, you see, the more you pay, the more 'comfort features' you get from a rifle."[rolleyes] One less than amused look later gets me a bunch of nonsensical blab about how this one has a detachable carry handle and this one has a muzzle brake. So, I ask why the A3 option is worth $100 on the 20" and only $30 on the 16". No answer, just a lot of "um, well, duh..." AND THEN I GET SOME CRAP ABOUT SHORT HANDGUARDS BEING A PREMIUM! AAAAHHHHHHH![pissed] This shop has been changing a lot lately but I never thought I would see this kind of blatant price gouging here. Its a typical story of an independant shop that was really cool with an extremely loyal customer base that became very successful and just went to hell. (not mention arbitrarily DOUBLING their transfer fee for guns not purchased there) Now I need a new home...[V]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:33:30 PM EDT
You better think about what you are doing. Does the guy treat you good and are you wanting a new AR15. If not then why care and if so then did you try to dicker with him. I will tell you this, Bushy,s are very hard to get and the way the market is going I dont blame him a little for trying to make a living.How whould yopu like to know that if you are going to eat today then you have to sell a gun or 2. It is true some will price gauge but I dont think he is out of line on his prices. You know that carry handles do not come with flat tops.All guns have taken a 5 - 10% increase this month.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:48:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:55:28 PM EDT
This episode is just the last in a long string of things that have been happening there over the past few months. As for prices increasing this month, ok, I can accept that. However, on 9/10 those same models were tagged between $729 - $769. As a matter of fact, those were their prices as recently as Thanksgiving. They have had at least one Bushmaster on the rack every time I've gone in there since 9/11. So, I personally just can't justify such a huge increase in price. But, like I said, this particular incident is just the most recent. I have tried to be loyal, I really have. For example, I shoot Fed Gold Medal .308 which I buy (in fair quantities I might add) from shop X at $22 per box. I have continued to do this despite another shop not even 3 miles up the road that sells it for $18 a box. That's about $80 extra a month I spend that I don't have to because I try to give my business to these folks. Overall, the whole 'attitude' in the place has changed. Lots of new faces, much less "talk" at the counter than there used to be. Even the selection has changed. They used to only stock quality stuff there that their clients had a use for. Now, there is every cheap POS that you can think of up there because they think they can sell it to all the "newbies" coming in who don't know any better. Is this blaming them for trying to earn a buck? No, its blaming them for being unscrupulous bastards who are willing to push (overpriced) garbage on someone that they know doesn't know any better. As to why should I care about his price on an AR15, I care because I have spent near $30,000 in that store in the last 3 years. (I keep ALL receipts regarding this hobby) I may not have wanted to buy an AR from them today but, I have purchased 5 from them in the past and I will be looking for another one in about a month and a half. They know this. Hell, they know my FID # by heart! Yet, they still expected me to pay this inflated price. Its just not good business.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:03:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 6:10:21 PM EDT by RBAD]
Hey FMJunkie. Can you tell us which store it is? My local gun shop / range is now charging $40 for transfers with an additional $15 for the NICS check. (Total = $55 !)
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:11:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RBAD: Hey FMJunkie. Can you tell us which store it is? My local gun shop / range is now charging $40 for transfers with an additional $15 for the NICS check. (Total = $65 !)
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I don't want this to be about me trying to take business away from a specified shop and all that garbage. I will say that it is in the central Jersey area, southern Mercer County/northern Burlington county area. (and the transfer fee is also 40+15) There aren't too many shops in the area, if you're from around here you will be able to figure it out... Again, I am not out here trying to run people off from them. I am bummed about what happened to me and, well, misery just loves company I guess. I was also hoping for some suggestions on good places from fellow NJ members.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:13:27 PM EDT
I buy most of my stuff online because of greedy shops. Here in CT they charge double what things are worth, blatently lie about Mags being GI or USA aftermarket. I buy most of my ammo from WAllyworld or at shows. F these greedy pigs.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:17:57 PM EDT
Gotcha ! I frequent the Essex and Passaic cty. areas. I am very pleased with the one store/range that we go to. Really nice folk too. It just irritates me a bit when I get the bill for FFL transfers! [:(!]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 6:20:55 PM EDT by Oslow]
$55 for a transfer? [:O] That would certainly run up the cost of adding to my Jennings collection.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:27:45 PM EDT
if I HAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO PAY 800 FOR ONE HERE IN CA I WOULD BE ALL OVER IT AT LEAST YOU STILL HAVE THE OPTION OF BUYING ONE. sorry about the caps lock forgot to release it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:32:47 PM EDT
FMJ...It's Christmas! Think Marketing my good man, Marketing! Those same fine firearms will be priced rock-bottom ten days from now.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:01:19 PM EDT
Tranfers are $15 here in Az....
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:44:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mrassII: You better think about what you are doing. Does the guy treat you good and are you wanting a new AR15. If not then why care and if so then did you try to dicker with him. I will tell you this, Bushy,s are very hard to get and the way the market is going I dont blame him a little for trying to make a living.How whould yopu like to know that if you are going to eat today then you have to sell a gun or 2. It is true some will price gauge but I dont think he is out of line on his prices. You know that carry handles do not come with flat tops.All guns have taken a 5 - 10% increase this month.
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Dude, I live in Central VA about 45 minutes from WV and there is no shortage of Bushmasters at any of the gun stores I go to. Dominion Outdoors is a licensed dealer for Bushmasters and they told me not 2 weeks ago that they could get me an A3 Dissipator in a week for $745.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:57:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 7:49:34 PM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
So what would the reason be for this exorbitant amount on the transfer fee? $40.00 + $15.00? The most one should have to pay is $24.00- 25.00.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:06:46 PM EDT
Here in the free state of PA, west of Philly, is Valley Forge... Gunshow this weekend at the convention center... Should be TONS of AR's floating around there... Every PA gunshow I go to, has AR's-O-Plenty...Some are overpriced, but many are "in the ballpark" No Shortage of Bushys around here...
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:49:08 PM EDT
Most gunshops in my area won't do transfers. The ones that do want $80 or more. I've found a guy who charges $15 the first time and then $10 after that. I like to give as much business as I can to the local shops, but they sometimes make it impossible. And the kicker is, they don't have a clue.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 12:43:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 2:26:18 PM EDT
I'm frankly disgusted by this topic and the attitude of those who criticize this gun shop. This is America. People can and should be able to charge $1 mm for an AR-15 if they think they can sell it for that much. Why don't you go open a gun shop across the street if you think his prices are consistently too high. That's how BK and McDonald's do it. Or call around and get a better deal. Or ask him to match a lower price. This idea that there is a Platonic "right" price for a rifle or anything else is the heart of socialism that's a much bigger threat to this country's liberties than a single high-priced gun shop. Consider this too: a gun shop in NJ runs the risk of being legislated out of business any day. It's appropriate they charge a premium, this may be their last year in business. Not to mention a NJ gun shop probably has numerous other hassles to deal with compared to one in TX or FL from local law enforcement or elsewhere. So quit your bitching. This is America. There's no monopoly out there. You can buy from other sources, start your own business, negotiate over price, etc. etc. In a free economy, no one can coerce you EVER, b/c every transaction (barring fraud or violence) must be voluntarily agreed by both sides. This is what makes our country great!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 2:33:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Publius: I'm frankly disgusted by this topic and the attitude of those who criticize this gun shop. This is America. People can and should be able to charge $1 mm for an AR-15 if they think they can sell it for that much. Why don't you go open a gun shop across the street if you think his prices are consistently too high. That's how BK and McDonald's do it. Or call around and get a better deal. Or ask him to match a lower price. This idea that there is a Platonic "right" price for a rifle or anything else is the heart of socialism that's a much bigger threat to this country's liberties than a single high-priced gun shop. Consider this too: a gun shop in NJ runs the risk of being legislated out of business any day. It's appropriate they charge a premium, this may be their last year in business. Not to mention a NJ gun shop probably has numerous other hassles to deal with compared to one in TX or FL from local law enforcement or elsewhere. So quit your bitching. This is America. There's no monopoly out there. You can buy from other sources, start your own business, negotiate over price, etc. etc. In a free economy, no one can coerce you EVER, b/c every transaction (barring fraud or violence) must be voluntarily agreed by both sides. This is what makes our country great!!!!!
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I take it that you are a gun dealer. There is something to be said for honest business practices, and price gouging isn't one of them.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 2:39:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 2:41:30 PM EDT
In Maryland, I've seen Bushies got for $1200. I laughed outloud and walked out. The guy behind the counter asked me if I had a problem and I told him I'd rather travel 2 hours to another store than give my money to him.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 3:02:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ConnYankee: I buy most of my stuff online because of greedy shops. Here in CT they charge double what things are worth, blatently lie about Mags being GI or USA aftermarket. I buy most of my ammo from WAllyworld or at shows. F these greedy pigs.
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Are you talking about the nice fellows over at Hoffans "Guns for the Good Guys." I made the mistake of buying my first gun in there when I lived in CT. What a bunch of pricks, thought they were all high and mighty. -bc
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:20:50 PM EDT
I don't wanna sound like I can't sympathize with you guys paying $55 dollars for a transfer in NJ......BUT in NY the local criminals around here are raising transfer pricing from 10% or $100 (which ever is more)which was bad enough to a flat 20%. YES 20% that means that HK91a2 at $2000, now costs you $2400 and for what? I don't need to pay the 3 year cost of his FFL and for his dinner.When I asked why so much his reponse was "Everyone wants to buy internet stuff,so I gotta charge ya" I reply " Can you get an HK91?" He response is to point to a SW3 and say "right there $2500" Between Bill's wife, Chuck and the Local Dealers all turning their backs on Gun Owners it's time to move. Jerry
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 12:45:22 AM EDT
I've got an area gunstore that's just a few miles away and up until about a year and a half ago I bought all my guns there, plus most of my reloading supplies. In the 6 yrs before that I spent probably close to $8000 in there. Then on Fathers Day two years ago, I went in to pick up a pistol I had on layaway and spotted a HK 91 clone. I ended up buying it (and I knew I was paying more than I should, but it was one of those GOTTA have it impulse buys). 3 months later I realized that i'd rather have an AR instead, so I go back and ask what kind of deal they could make me on an AR that they had. The response was that "well, you know, I just don't know what something like that is worth". I told him I knew I was going to lose money on the deal, what's the best you can do. And I reminded him that I bought it there. What I got was "yeah I remember you buying it, but there's nothing I can do. I had the gun along time before you bought it and well, I just don't want it back. Sorry". I told him I was sorry too and haven't been back since. Now I drive 43 miles to another gunstore where I bought a new Bushy , Glock 21, Taurus 608, and Remington 1100 within the last year. I figure hey if he didn't know the value of a gun that he sold, then maybe he didn't know the value of any other gun. It's a pain sometimes, driving an hour instead of 10 mins. but I don't regret it at all.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:44:37 AM EDT
Yes this is America and a shop owner is entitled to make a profit. Up until several years ago...I traded with that well known gun store in the Houston area (they have four stores, one with range.) At one time I lived within 3 miles of the range and shot there twice a week. Over the years I had spent a several thousand dollars there..purchasing numerous firearms and all my reloading supplies. Their prices were fair and staff helpful. Over time...I noticed their prices continued to go up--at an unreasonable rate--and their attitudes changed. They refused to carry certain brands such as Glock, due to their dealer status with S&W, Colt, etc. As you know Gun Shows are very popular here in Texas--like several held every weekend across the state.....and the owner, became vocal to the media and others that Gun Shows were not good, etc....dealers did not follow rules, etc. As you can guess...buyers and clients took notice....he lost numerous customers over this issue. And you could pick up a S&W or Colt or Sig at some of the local shows for $100-150 less than he sold the same weapon for. Bushmaster or DMPS??...no we don't carry those...you want a Colt! (cause we have a deal as Colt dealer.) Well I browsed thru the north store location recently.....(he now carries Bushmaster)...his prices are still high....like Win Q3131A for $4.97 a box...Academy has it for $3.99...or get it at Ammoman, and save the state tax. He must make a profit yes, we all realize that...but I agree, some of the shops are for the "uninformed" and do make $$$ off these folks. Just browse around and listen to some of the "junk" spouted by certain expert sales persons. There are good shops...with informed staff and fair prices....I try to support them. Cause if all the shops go....where will we be??
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:56:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2001 7:51:02 AM EDT by stator]
The problem is competition. Since FFL licenses are more difficult to obtain, there is less kitchen-counter FFLs to compete with. BTW, for those of you old enough to remember, the feds promised that FFL would not drive out ordinary citizens. I've said this all along, the retail dealers want to drive out small FFLs. Their industry association even wrote the BATF supporting reducing the number of FFLs to retail store fronts. We had two retail gun stores support this here in Santa Clara county. One is now gone out of business and the other as been trying to garner support from being attacked by their city. What goes around comes around. These store owners are idiots.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 8:01:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Publius: I'm frankly disgusted by this topic and the attitude of those who criticize this gun shop. This is America. People can and should be able to charge $1 mm for an AR-15 if they think they can sell it for that much. Why don't you go open a gun shop across the street if you think his prices are consistently too high. That's how BK and McDonald's do it. Or call around and get a better deal. Or ask him to match a lower price. This idea that there is a Platonic "right" price for a rifle or anything else is the heart of socialism that's a much bigger threat to this country's liberties than a single high-priced gun shop. Consider this too: a gun shop in NJ runs the risk of being legislated out of business any day. It's appropriate they charge a premium, this may be their last year in business. Not to mention a NJ gun shop probably has numerous other hassles to deal with compared to one in TX or FL from local law enforcement or elsewhere. So quit your bitching. This is America. There's no monopoly out there. You can buy from other sources, start your own business, negotiate over price, etc. etc. In a free economy, no one can coerce you EVER, b/c every transaction (barring fraud or violence) must be voluntarily agreed by both sides. This is what makes our country great!!!!!
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I agree about the gunshop being 100% able to put whatever price they want on the product, be it $40 or $76,000. That's the "supply" part about Supply and Demand. And being America, anybody can open up shop if they feel they can do it better (same with MS Windows...nothing's stopping anybody from making their own operating system). However, I disagree about the "quit your bitching" part. The consumer is the "demand" part and can not only take their business to wherever they feel it is suited, they can also exercise their "word of mouth" at their discretion. On the original thread about the gunshop, I too have been disenchanted about such practices. I would prefer a pricing based upon a formula of some sort, but there are many places that don't do that. Gunshops in particular are a tough one as they have a good dollar amount invested in their inventory and of course they'd like to see that move. Some shops have really upped their "transfer fees" to make their own inventory on even pricing as buying and transferring in to that shop. Other shops have gone into the "transfer fee" business and from what I can tell, they get a good amount of side business from all the foot traffic they get. I'm not sure if one strategy is imperically better than the other, it may depend upon the local consumers, but in the end, it will be the consumers who make the decision...which is a basis for the phrase that "the customer is always right."
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 9:28:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 10:10:26 AM EDT
Been there FMJunkie.
Originally Posted By M700-308: Can you get an HK91?" He response is to point to a SW3 and say "right there $2500"
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Crooks, nothing but.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 10:25:11 AM EDT
Sounds like you're describing H***y's or S*******ns Center in NJ.I've gotten jerked around by both before.Their parking lots are always full of guys tripping over their feet to spend their money there,no matter how high the prices are or piss-poor the service is.They definately have a "you need us" attitude.Before I moved away from the PRNJ,I found an easy solution to this problem.....I drove over into PA to buy what I needed from people that appreciated my business.Except for Eric the Ammoman or Jersey City Armory (who I believe escaped over the border into PA),I wouldn't spend a nickel with any of them.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 10:27:39 AM EDT
The FFL at the range where I shoot doesn't charge me a dime, neither a transfer nor NICS charge. He has ammo, winchester white box at reasonable prices, a varied gun inventory - both long gun and pistols. (BM, OLy, Cavalry Arms, Springfield Armory, Glock, Taurus, Beretta, S&W and others) He's got a great supply of rentable machine guns too, other rents just to shoot, just an overall good shop. Some of his accessories are a bit high, but overall he does a great job. If you're in Tucson, AZ, check out Desert Trails Gun Club and Thunderhead Shooting Supplies on Valencia road. They treat you right. A full year membership to the range, with no fee per visit, is only $56. Family is $102. Come on Down and talk to Rick Batory at the range and Jay at Thunderhead.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 11:46:09 AM EDT
Times are tough and will get tougher for some of you.
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 3:55:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasAg: Up until several years ago...I traded with that well known gun store in the Houston area (they have four stores, one with range.) At one time I lived within 3 miles of the range and shot there twice a week. Over the years I had spent a several thousand dollars there..purchasing numerous firearms and all my reloading supplies. Their prices were fair and staff helpful. Over time...I noticed their prices continued to go up--at an unreasonable rate--and their attitudes changed. They refused to carry certain brands such as Glock, due to their dealer status with S&W, Colt, etc. As you know Gun Shows are very popular here in Texas--like several held every weekend across the state.....and the owner, became vocal to the media and others that Gun Shows were not good, etc....dealers did not follow rules, etc. As you can guess...buyers and clients took notice....he lost numerous customers over this issue. And you could pick up a S&W or Colt or Sig at some of the local shows for $100-150 less than he sold the same weapon for. Bushmaster or DMPS??...no we don't carry those...you want a Colt! (cause we have a deal as Colt dealer.)
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Yep, I quit dealing with Carter's Country too. Their crap has finally worn thin on me, and they finally gave me more attitude than I could take last time. I've sworn to never go back, and I visited their range often as I'm close as well. Sportsman's Outlet is closer and they're at least friendly. Shooter's Station is out in Conroe, but they have a better selection, an indoor range, and actually know how to treat people appropriately. Carter's can go pound sand. Greg Garrett is probably the only reason anyone should do business with them anymore, but he runs the CHL course there now and doesn't teach himself. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 4:35:36 PM EDT
No one says you have to pay those prices. Just wait and see if they lower them. Or take your business elsewhere.
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 5:52:26 PM EDT
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