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Posted: 12/19/2001 4:29:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2001 4:36:46 PM EDT by wiggy762]
In the middle of the book, while providing backstory, the author accuses the then Secretary General of the UN, Butros-Butros Ghali, of using the US Military for his own personal gain. The premise was that Ghali had family members that were high ranking members of the clan opposing Aidid. Ghali initially OK'd the Tomahawk missle strike on the gathering of clans described in the book by the clans members present. When that did not get Aidid or his top lt.s, Ghali then authorized the mission that was the focus of the book. The entire UN presence in Mogadishu and Somalia was colored to help the Ghali backed clan come to power when the US Military did the dirty work and removed Aidid. I was sickened to realize that the leader of the UN would use our finest fighting men for his own personal gain. One more reason to not trust the UN. Just my $.02, but this bastard must pay!! How about we get a letter campaign going to level charges against him. For a start 18 counts of Homicide and 73 counts of attempted homicide. This jackoff may be dead or whatever, but he personally caused our Rangers and Delta operators' deaths. Someone must pay! Why has this link not been made public, why are there not congressional investigations into the mis-use of our military by this idiot and others? It sounds like many of the AR15 army are knowledgable, ready and willing to take an issue like this further. Someone please help me get something going. Please check my facts as reported in Blackhawk Down. Reread it to make sure of what I think I read, and think of ways to get this issue out and maybe to a pro-Military member of Congress. Properly done, to coincide with the opening of the Blackhawk Down movie, this issue(if true) could get media interest and take on a life of its own. Help me guys, I don't want our best and brightest to have died for nothing....or even worse, to have died helping someone that was using them. Edited because I can't spell, I'm so mad, and also to say that I lent my copy of BHD to a friend and need help confirming these points.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:08:21 PM EDT
At the risk of being a monday morning quarterback, the whole operation was a clusterfuck if you ask me. There was no real plan to extract the troops if things really went to shit (which they did). This was obviously an EXTREMELY risky mission so there [b]should[/b] have been a strong backup plan to get our boys out if things went to shit. But thats another subject. I'm kind of suspicious of our mission in Somalia. I was too young to go, but I know a few Marines that were there and they said the whole thing was a crock. I don't buy the fact that we would put hundreds of American lives at risk just to give out free lunches. Use our military to fight, not feed and we won't run into these problems.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:19:23 PM EDT
BTW- While Ghali might have been running the show with the UN forces, if I remember correctly, the Rangers and D-boys were there by request from the US commanders. The outcome of this battle might have been different if they were allowed the armor and air support they requested (denied by the Klinton administrarion). He's as much to blame as anyone.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:25:54 PM EDT
IMO, any op that is met at the beach by a clusterf_ck of reporters giving away their position, is doomed for failure. And if these accusations are true, then the UN SHOULD be held responsible, irregardless o the theater commanders request for Delta or Ranger support. If we were not there fighting someone else's battles, this whole thin would have never happened. [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:26:10 PM EDT
You are exactly right about the problems with using Marines and others to facilitate food distribution. We should strongly question the use of our military in these types of roles, but in the end the chain of command determined that use was warranted. This decision was shortsited at best, but not a criminal act. The problem as I see it is that the decision to use these troops in a combat role (capturing Aidid and his henchmen) was arrived at using improper and even illegal reasons. These troops were put under the care of the UN with the understanding that they would be used for official sanctioned UN objectives. Ghali used them to foreward his own personal gain. I am no specilist in UN legal matters, but I doubt the UN charter allows for the use of member's military forces in this manner.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:53:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2001 7:51:26 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Originally Posted By Death_By_AR15: At the risk of being a monday morning quarterback, the whole operation was a clusterfuck if you ask me. There was no real plan to extract the troops if things really went to shit (which they did). This was obviously an EXTREMELY risky mission so there [b]should[/b] have been a strong backup plan to get our boys out if things went to shit. But thats another subject. I'm kind of suspicious of our mission in Somalia. I was too young to go, but I know a few Marines that were there and they said the whole thing was a crock. I don't buy the fact that we would put hundreds of American lives at risk just to give out free lunches. Use our military to fight, not feed and we won't run into these problems.
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BUMP !!! But, our guys did good... No, VERY good ! They got involved in a gunfight, out numbered, and through combined arms, beat them back... I've seen numbers from 500-3000 sammies dead. That is better than a 10-1 ratio. We won that fight, those guys (our guys) are heros, it was just messy. However, the Marines had been pulled out before TFR started doing their "raids." The 10th MtnDiv was there. Remember that the US Military was there to do the "humanitarian" thing... But, TFR was there to "catch" warlords. TFR was not there to feed the poor, indigent, peace loving people. ...and, FWIW, I would have pulled all US persons out of that country, told the UN to pull their people out, and run B-52 strikes on Mog the like of which were never seen... Ever during V.N. The place would have been a crater as far as I was concerned.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:03:35 PM EDT
Agreed. Our soldiers, sailors and airmen did an outstanding job in that battle. My only gripe is the lack of an extraction force (or at least a planned one) by means other than air. A serious mistake that no doubt go more of our boys killed. But like I said, enough Monday morning quarterbacking. Semper Fi.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:51:55 PM EDT
Someone said Clinton and that is fucking fact. The c*(k s&$*#ng communist b&*#$rd piss ant of a p##*k of a human being. That SOB couldn't lead a wet dream much less a military mission. Send US Forces into a situation like MOgadishu or Somolia? You want AH-64 Apaches, "No can Do" Don't want to elevate the situation. Then the prick lets the Supreme Allied Commander of Nato take the Blame. What a perfect picture of a liberal arts education this guy is. There are people Alive who voted for this guy and well frankly trying to find a democrat is like hunting for snipe. You know there their because Socialist SCUMBAGS keep getting elected to official positions within the US , but you never can find who voted for them. AND ALL THE WHILE THE US MEDIA IS PROTECTING THIS MAN. Anywayss....... Sorry but that is how I feel.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 7:28:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Death_By_AR15: Remember that the US Military was there to do the "humanitarian" thing... But, TFR was there to "catch" warlords. TFR was not there to feed the poor, indigent, peace loving people. THIS is the point I'm trying to make. TFR was only there to catch warlords. So.... just a few questions: What warlords were they there to catch? Aidid and his Lt.s, that's who. Who would benefit from Aidid's capture or elimination? Ghali and his family, that's who. What was the chain of command? UN to POTUS to JCS to TFR. Who was in charge of the UN? Butro-Butros Ghali, that's who. This is a smoking gun held in Ghali's hand, and so far nobody has said a word!! This man killed our troops by using them for his personal gain. OK, now for more questions: Who said no to AH-64's and AC-130's? POTUS, under advisement of his Sec. Def. (the Sec. Def. resigned quietly 2 months after the TFR battle)
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