To answer you question, Radio Shack.

To Shooterx308 aka "dad" and SSD, did it ever occur to you all that I might know a bit more about surveillance on kids and the resulting mistrust than you do? I didn't see either of you writing anything about minumum on-hook resistance of coils or buying pre-made automatic recorder starting taps, so I'm assuming you just wanted something to jump into, correct me if I'm wrong please.

SSD why would I give two shits what your wife saw in the labor room? It's not going to invalidate or make me take back what I said. This has nothing to do with me, the 12 year old girl had BAD PARENTS, bad parents who would do something like take the easy way and play agent 007 instead of confronting and discipling their child properly. [b]The fact that sgf's niece still has a phone to talk on and still knows people to talk to tells me none of this has been done.[/b]

My comment was not made to you all and I did not intend to have to elaborate, and still will not. Seeing as I'm getting the usual vague talking-down by way of redneck cliches about crap on a garden, it appears you thought it was for you. To a lot of you ar15.com is all about jumping on the first chance you see to do some male-posturing, instantly calling something out as false, lies, illegal, unsafe or simply "the wrong way."  I'm guessing to make onself appear (at least to themself anyway) more manly "conservative" or smart. To those, GFY, I couldn't care. I know your type. I was trying to make sgf think of a little something before doing something that couldn't be taken back. (and sgf you're welcome to continue with me by email if you wish) But I suppose since you all are all tough and "hard" a kid walking out on you wouldn't bother you too much. but it might to sgf's brother. You know what? never f#cking mind, let's DO talk all macho..what IS one more anyway? he only has what? 3 years before he's rid of his problem for good I'm sure he's tough and can stick it out. And when she is gone if he does care, as long as he prays to jesus or whoever every night or so, everything is bound to work out just fine, doesn't it always?

I wouldn't do it.

I have seen thousands of kids go to college or move out that had overbearing parents and they ALL go nuts when they get out on their own.

The kids that have supportive parents that let them have freedoms and support their children are very level headed.

So if you want your daughter to be the "drunk" at the party and the "easy" girl, tap away.

.02$

That doesn't matter at all.  He is not part of the conversation.  It's the phone companies wires, should they be able to tap everyone?  Or what if you use the phone at a neighbor or friends house to have a conversation with your wife?  Should the neighbor or friend be allowed to listen to your private conversation later?

You know I was going to just ingnore this post but I've decided not to.  

The purpose of this post was to ask a question about what equipment other people had tried in order to keep tabs on unruly children.

Just a little info.

My brother's wife left her children in New Year's Eve 1998.  The next day she moved in with a guy who was a graduate of West Point, served in Desert Storm, served time in a military prison, was dishonorably dischared from the military for CHILD MOLESTATION.  This little girl watched her natural mother walk out.  Her deal was pay me X amount of dollars give me the furnature and "you can have the kids."

These children have a really screwed up version of what Love really is.  

For the preveious nine years before this she had been working on a four year degree from college taking one class at a time.  I don't know how she spent the rest of her time.  Some nights she didn't come home called my brother said she was to tired to come home.

I know what we would all say we would do at this point but we weren't living there with 4 girls, trying to pay bills.

For ErickM let me list the people that have been involved in this girl's life besides our family.

DHR workers
Psychologist
Rape Cousoulers
Sheriff's Deputies (She ran off to Atlanta with her drug dealing sh!tb!rd)

My brother's not perfect but he does try really hard.  The thing is there're mother wants to destroy him by using the children.  Even the judge in there're divorce case "off the record" agrees she's one crazy bitch.

I'm sure that it didn't occur to ErickM this was not your normal situation that you see on a afterschool special on the Hallmark Channel.  

You could take away every privilage away from this girl but still her mother feeds her self destruction.  "Well she doesn't need to see the mother." some of you are saying now.  Well guess what she has four lawyers hired that make it so she can.

So back to my question.  What works?  What electonic gizmos have you tried?

This is really scary, I finally understand how parents are able to raise boys that shoot up  high schools and girls that strip at age sixteen.

If you as parent even feel the need to wire-tap your kids, it is an indication of your own inability as a parent and failure as a role model.

A phone wire-tap is to a father what viagra is to an impotent man.

Bottom line, once you've screwed up the trust to the extent that these parents have, your fighting a losing battle. You'll never out smart your kids, they hold the final card, they can leave you.

At age 15 she's got alot of something you don't have, time. She's got the rest of her live to recover from that drama. As the parent you get to spend the rest of your life thinking about how you knocked down your own house of cards. What are you gonna do? Start over at 40!

Imagine going to that next cocktail party with all the other proud parents, and when they ask how your child is doing, you can tell them you don't know because your kids don't talk to you anymore. You lost thier respect. Then maybe you can find some consolation with parents at other cocktail parties, like the ones in the green room at the Springer Show.

How did you lose their respect? Was it the wire-tap? No, it happened long before that, that was just the nuke that wiped out what was left of a broken foundation.

Time to have a candid conversation about why your kids don't respect you, and what you can do to repair the relationship. I always treated my parents with only and exactly as much respect as they gave me. Now I can say with confidence at age 26, my father is my best friend, we made mistakes, we know that but neither one of us was ever so wreckless as to sabotage the whole thing.

My suggestion is to try two-way communication instead of a one-way wire-tap. Your kids aren't like the Palestines, you can solve the problem with communication.

The FlyingDutchMan

PS. If she does end up dancing at the Speriment Rhino, let me know I have plenty of friends raised by succesful parents with lots of white-collar green to spend. Who's your daddy?

I am out!

Hi,
Just to throw in a teenagers opion $.02 (I'm 16), I would respect my dad much more if her just talked to me about what he was concerned about rather then taping my phone. Whenever they have been concerned about something they've always been straight shooters and I have deep respect for both of my parents.

Then again I've always been preaty clean myself so it could be an entirely different situation.

Just my take on it

Hope it works out for you and your daughter!

Ever since divesteture the wire inside the residence past the demarc point (box on side of house) is owned by the homeowner and he can do what he wants with it as long as it does not throw or cause a problem in the outside network.
The phone co. will NOT tap a line anywhere without a court order period and then they will still be reluctant to do so even with one. You can record conversations originating or recieved at your residence for your own use you may not share the tape or transcript to anyone not party to the conversation (anyone not on the call) IE you can listen to and discuss the call with your daughter but not with a police officer( unless you discover direct evidence of a crime)or your neighbor or anyone else. You do not need to inform her of the taping but you cannot use the tape other than privately unless you uncover-- agian-- direct evidence of a crime having been commited.  The electronic communcations privacy act of 1984 while mostly pertaining to cell phones /cordless phones and radio conversations does cover wiretapping and taping of phone calls by homeowners,employers etc.
She is 15 if the parent does not want her on the phone take it away. Until she is an adult, 18 to 21 dependant upon the state, the parent is responsible for her welfare and upbringing. You run her life NOT the other way around. That being said she sounds like the crafty type that will figure out a way around you unless you really reassert your authority over her quickly
Let her do what she will in response --run away- be the drunk- whatever those will be HER decisions and not yours she wont come back down the line and be able to blame you for her problems becuase you did not do anything.
I have seen overbearing pearents but I have also seen tyrant kids who need to be reigned in bad, in the end I would rather see the former.

Getting rid of the lawyers would seem the obvious answer [;D], Seriously Sgf I meant no offense and as you know, I didn't know the situation. What did piss me off was how my comments were jumped on as instantly wrong by other people who probably DID assume the same as me that it was typical after-school-special stuff and who would think that recording is justified in that case.

I really hope everything works out ok for her and doesn't take too much of a toll on you and your brother.

and if you're on a budget and have a little electronics experience just about any transformer and a few resistors will work, make one side of the transoformer around 1kohm with resistors if necessary, plug this into mic-in jack of a tape-recorder or pre-amp make the other side just above the resistance required to create an "off-hook" condition in the line, you'll have to experiment here I can't remember at all what it is. won't do anything fancy like start the recorder automatically for you but it won't cost 40 or 50 bucks either.

and again, sorry for any assumptions I made and commented on but remember it was mainly a commentary on others with those assumptions who would take rash actions.

[b]WOW![/b]  All of this wisdom from a young man who's [b]never[/b] raised a teenage daughter.  Is it also safe to assume that you're still single and have no children?  You sure sound like it!!

State laws differ on this.  Some states are two-party states, meaning that all individuals being recorded need to be aware of it.  Some states are one party states, where only one party need be aware of it.  I am not aware of any states that allow recording without the consent of any of the parties to a conversation, such as you are suggesting.

He's not talking about legal evidence to be used in court, He is talking about gathering intel on a resident minor living in his home, Consent is really meaningless except for maybe the incoming party. And to restate what others have said the whole thing will just drive the wedge further anyway. But within his own home he is free to do what he wants if there is any doubt and he wants to be sure he should just put a sign up on the fridge to the effect that phone calls may be monitored or recorded.

Your right... I am a young man who has never raised a teenage daughter. And that would be because I didn't knock anyone up in junior high.

That's not to say I haven't "tapped" a few teenagers daughters back in my youth, so needless to say I do speak with some experience on this issue.

I am still single, because unlike yourself I didnt have any cute relatives at my disposal.

My parents were just fine, thank you.  

I agree, if your brother taps into his daughter's phone conversations to prove she is doing something wrong and then goes to her with the evidence, I will feel sorry for him because she will hate him the rest of her life.

Funny, your one of those people that goes around bitching and whining about your firearm rights, etc., and you don't believe in other parts of this country LIKE THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY.  Sounds kind of hypocritical don't it.  Which side are you on?
-bc

Nope, but I sure as hell would not tape my daughters conversations.  Sounds a little to late to trying out the parenting thing when it got this far out of line.  They should just have another one and do it right, second ones a charm.

-bc

Listen up. My parents whooped the crap out of me when I needed it. Sometime they were harder on me when I didn't really deserve it, but it made up for the times I REALLY needed it and got away w/o anything.

This soft parenting crap is for the birds.

Yeah, I am all about talking with your kids and trying to achieve a bond or level of trust. But in the end. But when it is all said and done the only thing that matters is the kid's respect for the parent's authority. It sounds like the bonding opportunities are long gone so little missy needs to learn respect for her dad's authority. Period.

Parent's are not peers. Parent's are not chums. Parent's are not buddies to be consoling and understanding everytime the kid throws a temper tantrum. This is the philosophy of liberal scum like Johnny Walker's school principal Marcie Miller. [url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ucmg/20011218/cm/two_traitors_1.html[/url]

Sure it's great if you can achieve a rapport with your kids. But its better if you have no rapport and your kid grows up understanding respect.... for others and for themselves. I can't say that my dad and I are the best of friends and I definately can't say he handled everything 'the right way'. But the iron hand of discipline and authority did more to prepare me for independence and autonomy as a law-abiding, upstanding, moral adult than any of our 'pal talks' ever did.

Stop making liberal excuses like Johnny Walker's parents.

I just never realized how *simple* parenting was!  Apparently, all it boils down to is:  Whoop 'em, they'll respect you!

Thanks SO MUCH for the advice.  Get back to me when you have kids, and let me know how it works out for ya!  [rolleyes]

That's NOT what I stated.

Though you may try to malign my words, I never stated that the only way to elicit respect was to 'whoop' the kid. I said the only thing that really matters is the respect for authority. Without that understanding, there is no basis to actually guide and teach the kid.

My beef is with the idea that the only way to parent is to pacify and placate a troublesome rebel. I was a rebel and I learned that no matter how hard I tried, I could not get around parental authority. Sneaking and scamming was the mantra and the only thing I would have done with passive parenting would have been exploit it.

It does sound like things have been awry for a fair amount of time for things to degenerate to this level. Be that as it may, sometimes you got to just put your foot down.

Oh... I forgot.... you subscribe to the same parenting magazines that John Walker's parent's subscribe to... Liberal Parenting (a guide to assisting in your child's self destruction).

Radio Shack....But do not do it!! I did It with my son when he was 15. You will hear things that will make you cry at night, that you can't never forget.
 Things are better now 3 years later. 8 crack heads in jail.I almost had to kill...They theartend to kill me.
 Do anything to protect your kids but do not record phone calls. Find any other way.

Then WTF makes you qualified to lecture those of us who have?



Good for you.  I can really appreciate the *signs* of responsibility you showed.



I understand now...

Because you screwed a couple of teen whores when you were younger, you know how to raise upstanding young ladies?




I thought it was because same-sex marriages with your younger brother you've been sodomizing aren't even legal in Kalifornia.

When you post tripe like this, you seriously undermine your arguement that your father did such a great job of raising you.  Of course, if he's as big a fvckup as you are, and you're comparing yourself to him, I can understand why you think you're such a fine young man....[puke]

-I agree in part with "burn" although there are always situations that arise that are out of your control, you can't be there every second of the childs life.

Briancav:
-are you for real, dude? Do you have issues with your parents?
-The truth is, A parent who will [b]Ignore[/b] their [i]own[/i] childrens possible endangerment are the repobates in this story, these are the parents who deserve a bullet to the head, not the one's who care and love their kids enough to expend all costs and energies to ensure the safety of a young, unlearned, uneducated teen girl.
-In the case that you may be wondering, no, I don't have kids. I am simply the grown up child of two strong, loving parents who I have forgiven for their shortcomings because of the intestional fortitude they had to raise me right.

I would have no problem whatsoever recording phone calls on [b]my[/b] phone in [b]my[/b] house if I thought one of [b]my[/b] daughters had gotten mixed up with the wrong group of kids.  I wouldn't tell her I'd been taping conversations, but I would find out where and when activities that concerned me were taking place, and I would find a way to casually drop in unannounced.  Mrs. A3KID and I do this now - "We were in the area and just wanted to make sure you were having a good time."  Our kids know that there isn't anyplace they can possibly be where we definately won't be checking up on them.

He is the FATHER...not her friend, buddy, confidant or "Call me Bob with-it-kinda sperm donor".  

Fathers are not there to ignore problems, they are there to make their kids miserable when the kids are screwing up.  

I loved the "but she'll just get a cell phone" so, if she'll screw in a back seat, he should just let her grind on the kitchen floor?

The girl is just-turned-15, bag of hormones with  peices of anatomy of interest to older guys...and no brains beyond her ovaries.  Yep', that's who a parent should let run free.

P.S. It's not the parents job to earn their kids trust, it's the kids job to earn the parents respect and trust.

Praise God!  A voice of  reason from a [newbie]!

Welcome aboard!

You think you know about teens because you were one.  Guess what, skippy, we were too.  I guess that means we already know as least as much as you about teens.  Now comes the good part, we've been parents and you NEVER have.  So come back and offer advice on parenting when you've done some.

Not only am I a parent, but I have been working with teens since 1985, as a teacher, in residential treatment settings, and in LE.  Based on my education and experiences, I can confidantly say that somebody sewed your a$$ shut 'cause the shytte is coming out your mouth.

No shit, sherlock!  And where does that respect come from?  Fear?  I doubt it.  It doesn't even work with dogs, and kids are just a bit more complex.





Your parents stuck it out with you because they loved you, ever consider that?





Parenting starts at birth, and you just can't start when the problems appear.




Try for someting a little more damning next time- this "liberal" label is just a little too knee-jerk and hackneyed at this point.  Good timing in the phrasing, though!  Do you think the Taliban are "soft" on *their* kids?

Study: Strict Parenting May Curb Teen Drug Abuse
Feb. 20, 2001
The Fox News Channel

WASHINGTON, DC - Teenagers who live in strict households are less likely to abuse drugs or alcohol than those who live in "hands-off" households, regardless of whether they are raised by one parent or two, new research released Wednesday suggests.

The research, by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, concluded that teen-agers living in more liberal households were twice as likely to abuse drugs as the average teen-ager. Teens with absentee parents were four times as likely to abuse substances as children in highly structured, "hands-on" homes, the report said.

"Mothers and fathers who are parents rather than pals can greatly reduce the risk," said Joseph Califano, chairman of the Columbia University-based center.

President Bush's acting drug policy adviser, Edward Jurith, endorsed the findings. "Youth tell us that their parents can empower them to make healthy decisions about drugs," he said.

Overall, the center said nearly two-thirds of American kids between the ages of 12 and 17 face the risk of abusing drugs, alcohol or tobacco. Two-thirds reported being able to get drugs at their schools. And 51 percent said they would never try an illegal drug, a decrease from the 60 percent who made a similar statement in 1999.

This was the center's sixth annual survey of teen-agers but the first time researchers focused on what impact parent's have on the patterns of potential abuse. The researchers did not ask about actual drug use because they acknowledged that teen-agers might not be totally truthful in their answers.

Results were based on telephone interviews with 1,000 youth ages 12 to 17. They were asked about their smoking, drinking or drug-taking histories or habits, the behavior of friends, and rules set by their parents. The margin of error was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Parents were placed into three groups, based on about a dozen actions reported by their children. "Hands-on" parents consistently took 10 or more of these actions, which included: turning off the TV during dinner; banning music with offensive lyrics; finding out where their children were after school; imposing curfews; assigning regular chores; eating dinner with their children at least six nights a week.

Twenty-seven percent of teen-agers live in such households, researchers said.

"Halfhearted" parents set about half these rules; the largest group of children — 55 percent — said they lived in these households.

Eighteen percent of teen-agers described their parents as "hands-off" — following five or fewer of the rules.

The same organization says, in regards to risk of drug abuse, that:

"The safest teens are those living in two-parent homes where they have a
positive relationship with both parents, go to both parents equally when
they have important decisions to make, have had discussions about drugs
with both parents and report their mother and father are "equally
demanding of the teen in terms of grades, homework and personal
behavior."

and

"TALK THE TALK VS. WALK THE WALK: To be effective, discussions between parents
and teens must be informative and the parent's opinions must be valued by the teen. Seeds of an
effective discussion are sown years before--they depend on the quality of the teen's relationship
with his or her parents. As in past years, the survey shows teens are most at risk at precisely the
time they are least receptive to parental persuasion."


[url]http://www.casacolumbia.org/usr_doc/17635%2Epdf[/url]

It all matters...

Believe it or not, I think we actually agree on this issue. I am not advocating the beating of a child into submission. All I have been saying to this point is that the idea of purely liberal parenting where the parent postures as the kid's peer is the wrong approach. Absentee parenting is just as wrong. A 2-way dialogue from early childhood is the best bet, but ultimately the parent is the authority figure and the child is the suboordinate. Period.

Yeah, I'm sure we do agree.  I was giving you a hard time because I thought you were being overly simplistic.  At least you're thinking about it!  It's damn hard to raise kids, what with all the social pressures, our own baggage from growing up, trying to strike a balance between firm and fair, learning how to raise *this particular kid* (not just a generic child), and so on.  I'm always somewhat surprised when it actually works out, to tell you the truth.

Anybody who tells you it's easy, or "all you gotta do is just do such-and-such" is blowin' smoke.  Kids are THE BEST thing that can happen to us, IMHO. An awesome and difficult responsibility for sure, but more also fun than anything else imagineable, in the end.

And I hope yours are just a little bit rebellious- payback is a bitch, man! [:)]

One more thing to remember, the more you try to track her, the better she will get at covering her tracks.

You may just be creating a monster who can hide everything.

You should also make sure you are ready to listen to what you might hear.

What if she talks about sexual encounters in graphic detail?  What if she talks about getting wasted all the time?  You never know what you are going to hear.

Can you really look at your daughter the same way after she talks about giving a BJ?  How many guys she's "been" with?  The coke she tried?

All worst case examples but possible.

I'm not sure you could recover from that.

Bravo Siera.  She might [b]think[/b] she can outsmart him, but that's where it stops.  It's pretty easy to check up on teens, but you [b]do[/b] have to get off your ass to get the job done.



What are you skeered?  He's already dealing with a monster.  Why do you think he feels he needs to monitor phone conversations?



Sounds like he is.



He'll know he needs to get her to an OB/GYN to have a pelvic exam done, and have her checked for STD's.



Does the word "Detox" mean anything to you?



Do you suppose that's why he wants the phone tap?



What she has done isn't as important as where her actions are taking her.



I love this one.  I can garun-damn-tee you that as a father I would [b]love[/b] to find out [b]who[/b] would ever give or sell one of my daughters cocaine.  I reckon that would come out in the conversation too.  More than a fair trade, IMHO.



Yes, your probably right.  It would be better to stick his frickin' head in the sand like a damned ostrich and hope everything will get better by tomorrow.  

[puke]

How old are you?

a3kid said it best so I won't.  A parents love for their child is complete and unconditional.

Sounds to me she has already shut her parents out and they need to find out what's going on to help her help herself.

As far a recovering from something,  There isn't a parent alive, I think, that doesn't think their children will try and do the same stupid shit they have already done themselves.  Thats why they want to know what their daughter is doing.

Ok, just a few comments... as teh father of a 15 year old girl (and no, I'm not the brother)

First, this is a bit over simplified, but it summarizes things a bit:

Way to many parents are raising children when they should be raising adults.  In other words there are way to many parents that have lost sight of the end product - a fully functional adult, not a child in an adults body

NOw many iwll jump on this as to simple.  And to some extent it is, but it points out what the process should produce - and I know many parents that are raising "Children" that won't be able to think logically, make decisions, etc.

Now, how does this come about?  Because the parents actually do everything for the kid (or nearly so).

As for [b]this[/b] particular adolecent, it is a tough situation that this guy is in.  It's a shame teh mother couldn't simply stay out of the kids lives, because it sounds like she the one screwing it up.

It almost sounds like he's attempting to catch her (the mother) in the act of attempting to corrrupt the girl to provide ammo to get a TRO against the mother (and scumbag boyfriend).

Frankly, I don't know if dad has already tried the sitdown talk route or not, but if he [b]ever[/b] had any kind of rapport with her, he should attempt that route first.

Then I would suggest mortaging the house to the hilt to hire good lawyers to put mom off her stride in this thing (of course, he probably has already just about gone broke attempting this)

Frankly, I feel for the guy - I know it would be difficult to decide what to do, but if you've been parenting all along (and singly, as a man, that's probably a most difficult thing to do), you'd be able to trust the kid... but...?

So far I haven't passed the curse on to my kid - my mom, when I was younger, used to say "I hope you have kids just like you when you grow up" when I'd done something irritating... and yup, my kid does a lot of the same stuff I did... I wonder how that works.  But all in all, she's a good kid.  Steps out of line once in a while, and we put her pack in place, and life goes on.

Good luck to your brother - as for devices, Radio Shack should have such a gizmo - my advice would be to limit the phones in the house to traffic zones - limited privacy, but still one can "over hear" things

Just my $0.02 worth

Wow, where to begin?  As some of you might remember, I have a 4 year old daughter that has been mentally abused by her mother and physically abused by the egg donor’s boyfriend.  These are the things I am fearful of.  My heart goes heavy for the fathers who have had to deal with this before.  I know how powerless you must feel.  I know the pain of not being able to do anything to help your daughters.  Being a father is not all fun.  You, as a father MUST have ultimate responsibility for your child.  (I point this out for those who have no children)  There is no way in this instance to have both trust and safety.  Unfortunately, safety is more important than trust at this moment in time.  However, I would use the tap as a LAST resort only, but I would use it.  If your brother is at his last resort, help him.  There should be no question about that. (SGF, I am not questioning you, but the others who think otherwise)  For all you people who think he is overstepping his bounds, you have never felt powerless.  You have never felt the pain associated with it.  Part of being a good father is knowing when to intercede.  To quote Trakehner “Fathers are not there to ignore problems, they are there to make their kids miserable when the kids are screwing up.”  I couldn’t have put it better myself.  My job, as the father of my daughter, is to see that MY parenting overcomes the deficiencies of her mothers.  If that means that I need to be strict and/or a disciplinarian at times, so be it.  But with that, she will also know that I will be there for her, with out question.  So, my suggestion is walk a mile in his shoes.  I have had a fear that society is going down hill, due to the lack of parenting.  Please don’t harp on this man for “overparenting”.

Geez, do I know how to kill a thread or what???? Any updates???

I hate Radio Hack, but, they used to sell a cool box that would plug into a phone line and turn on/off a cheap tape recorder only when the phone was in use.  You have to get the tape recorder that they sell with external recording control. You can hide it in an atic or closet
It was very simple, cheap and effective.  I don't know if they still sell it.  Next, is to present yourself as a psyco to these guys.
Get a laser pointer pen.  When her scumbag friends show up at your house you can paint them with it from the window (don't use an actuall gun for this). Let it be known you have a "few" guns (though they might come try to steal them).  Game trophy heads hanging on the wall have good effect.  Bear with bullet between the eyes would be great.
Show them some large drums of chemicals in the basement.  Tell them a story about how these can be used to dissolve a whole human body into a stinky gas and leaves no traceable evidence.  
If you have trouble with any of these hodlums find out where they live and stake out thier house. Let them see you.  Have pizza's + chinnese delivered to thier house.  Order nasty stuff like no cheese and extra pinneapple or moo goo gi pan( nobody makes this well, but it's on every chinnese menu).  Call 911 from a pay phone when they have a party or do a drug deal.  You shouldn't have to wait long.
Also keep in mind that most teenagers today work very hard to look older and tougher than they are.  Tattos, percings, green hair, getto slang, etc are standard fair.  If you see a clean cut, well dressed, well mannered "boy", he' either a psyco-pathic serial killer, or the drug king pen.  He's the dangerous one!
Watch your back and good luck.  15? You're gonna need it.

Actually, based on what I read in your post, no.  You come across as someone who is [i]not[/i]the parent of a young girl and are looking at the situation from the outside.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  And if you are a parent: God help you and them.  Get it into your little pin head:  you guard your children like a lionness, and by God, if it means you have to tap her phone to find out for sure, then tap away.  It may not be technically legal, but its right.  Now, what you do with that info, that's another story.



Can't or won't?



Well, Eric, if the cliche fits, wear it.  I thing you are wrong.  Way wrong.  I also think you're talking out of your ass.  And if you are so delicate that 'redneck cliches' hurt your widdle bitty feewings, let me be the first to say:  You Are In The Wrong Place, Pussy Boy.

Shooter: still Dad and Proud of It.

Maybe, but what happened to you?

Ceasar, I got a pretty good notion you don't understand dick.  But one day, when you have kids that are hell bent on going their own way, the dim light of realization may make its way into your psyche.  Bank on it.

What do you base this on? It's his house and he can record his own phones if he wants to.

Wether or not it is legal as "evidence" is based on if you are a one or two party state or not. Most of the Liberal POS states are 2 party consent and quite a few are only one party.

When neither party knows then it is a title 3 matter for a judge to issue a wire tap on.

I'm not going to participate in the pissing match I have just read through. I am going to offer the original poster the advice he asked for.

I am a father of 5. 3 girls, age 1,15,18 and 2 boys. age,14,16.

I had a situation with one of my girls and an internet chatroom, She was 14 at the time. She left a chat window open one time, by mistake and left the computer. My wife and I scrolled thru the conversation and were totally amazed at what we read.

Her current boyfriend (the local bank president's son) were discussing sex. They were trying to decide what particular sex act to try next. Fortunately, My wife and I read the transcript before they had gone much farther than groping/touching. After confronting our daughter with our new information, we were able to actually get closer to her. She now understands that our goal is to "protect" her and help her to mature into a decent young woman. Not some slut that none of the boys will have any respect for. She didn't like the intrusion into her privacy but I think she is now actually glad we did it. The bankers kid is long gone now and our daughter is a happier person and so are we.

There was another instance, with another daughter, where an adult black male called my house asking for my 14 year old white daughter. Had my daughter been in control of MY HOUSE as so many posters here have indicated as best, God only knows what would have happened. Well, she wasn't in control and the offending piece of ape shit won't ever be calling back.

What my children do after they are 18 and gone will always be of concern to me because I love them and want them to have a good life. What they do up until that time is entirely MY BUSINESS.

My point ; get involved in your childs affairs, any way you have to. Their not wise enough to make their own decisions yet. kids left to run wild and do as they please are one of the biggest problems in this society today.

This sounds like the advice of a punk moron that is part of the troubles in  todays society. To bad we can,t rid the world of all scum instead of just the terrorists that prey on the helpless and unsuspecting.

Exactly.  Too many people try being friends with their children, and it makes it impossible to be their parent.  You are either an authority over them (parent) or you are their peer (friend).  You cannot be both, and if you find yourself being the friend, they will never respect you until that dynamic is broken.  From personal experience I can say that takes time.

It's like the time I ended up managing my friends.  It was impossible to completely seperate the personal and professional aspects of our relationship, and in the end everyone got their feelings hurt.  I tried being their friend, and that didn't work when things needed to get done.  Then I had to be their boss, and things still didn't get done.  That's when I had to turn into a jerk.  I don't ever want to be in that position again, so my children and I will never be friends until they are on their own.  I'll love them and interact with them, but it will always be clear that the wife and I are the law and not their friends.

God Bless Texas

How many teenage girls do you know that think that far ahead?  Seriously, maybe you haven't been around teenagers recently, but most are not that sophisticated.  And if they are, he's already lost anyway.

God Bless Texas

I had forgotten about this thread. I don't mean to be an ass or disrespectful in any way... but considering what has recently occurred with BrianCav, these statements are kind of disturbing.