Jesus' birth?  Who associates X-mas with the Winter Solstice?  Who only associates X-mas with only presents and Santa Claus (for you spoilt kids out there.)

Anyone here a Grinch or Scrooge?

BTW, HOHOHO!  MERRY CHRISTMAS.....early!

After about seven or eight church services, youth groups, "Hanging of the Greens", Advent candles, church caroling & probably some I've missed, I think my answer is pretty clear.  The only time I even remember there's a winter solstice, is when it comes up on a board from somebody complaining about how we "stole" the druids' holiday or something equally silly.  Presents have been done for a while, no biggie.

Cmon! We all know Christmas is just a commercial holiday that starts spreading its propaganda right after Halloween is over. It is by design for the department stores and all retailers alike. So sit back, enjoy, and dont forget to send me a Dillon reloader!! [;)]
Merry Christmas!!


[beer]

Religion[rolleyes]To many religious people[rolleyes] kill other religious people[rolleyes] over religion!...I worship the sun.         edited to add the [rolleyes]concerning RELIGION!

Happy Kwanzaa, everybody!

Of course, Christmas is the celebration of Jesus' Birth. Period. I think the name says it all, don't you?

That's why those who would denigrate the holy day will simply call it 'X-mas' or some sort of other nonsense!

If the Druids wanted to keep a celebration of the winter soltice they should have continued the practice. But, having been virtually wiped off the face of the earth by pagan Romans, they didn't have much of a chance!

BTW what other pagan celebrations do you guys enjoy?

Eric The(IMeanThatSincerely!)Hun[>]:)]

BTW what other pagan celebrations do you guys enjoy?

Eric The(IMeanThatSincerely!)Hun[>]:)][/quote]
______________________________________________
Halloween

Glad you asked, yes I believe the 25th is the birth date of Jesus as best we can tell. Their must be something to it cause people seem to be alot nicer starting a couple of weeks before. Its the one day a year we are together for the whole day for a little peace and quiet, the TV doesn't get turned on until the PM. Oh bye the way I did ask Santa for a Dillon 650. Merry Christmas and may God Bless you all!!!

who the heck is Kwanzaa? [?][;)][/quote]
________________________________________________
Big B.,
I believe the Kwanzaa you refer to is Sidney Kwanzaa - Levi Kwanzaa's brother.

I also believe they live mostly in Atlanta, Ga.

Yes I do.  I was raised to believe that, like the hun, X-mas is taking the Christ out of Christmas.  Has it become commercial?  Of course.  Because people let it be that way.  Is it really the date of Christ's birth?  Probably not, but it is the best we can do and it probably was put there for a reason, I dont care.  I have always and will always celibrate Christmas for what it is susposed to represent.

Romans celebrated Saturnalia over this period too.

December 25 was chosen to be the day Jesus's birth was celebrated by the Emperor Constantine, who was in practice a follower of Mithras, whose holy day was also Dec 25, and was also the middle of Saturnalia.

There is evidence that the 1st-3rd Century Christians celebrated Jesus's birthday in June.

But it is far from certain that they even knew the exact date. That was lost when the Hebrew Christians were destroyed during the Jewish War.

Even so Christmas was far less important than Easter.  For the early Christians it was Jesus's death and resurection that was important, not whenever he was born.

Well I don't really celebrate any other ones besides the Superbowl. But the Easter holiday celebrated by christians also has strong pagan roots. I'm suprised sometimes how few people understand how much of christian holidays have been influenced by pagan holidays. And maybe someone can correct me here (or back me up), but I remember reading somewhere that some biblical scholars have estimated that Christ was actually born in what would be August.




Anyway, happy Yuletide to you all!

Roman Catholics had a mass on that date to celebrate the birth of Christ since at least 335 AD. It was universally held since that date that the Christendom would celebrate the anniversary of Christ's birth on that date.

Some Christian groups rebelled and celebrated other dates or celebrated no date at all. For example the Puritans in Colonial America forbade the celebration of Christmas simply because of its Catholic roots.

So what?

For those who don't celebrate the Birth of Christ every day of their lives, why not just a simple, once-a-year celebration?

So it is a Christian Holy Day, whether we like to think it that or not.

How many of you celebrate [i][b]Natalis Solis Invicti[/b][/i], the birthday of [i][b]Sol Invictus[/b][/i], the 'Unconquered Sun'?

We have no earthly idea on what day of the year Christ was born. Alfred Edersheim, a devout Jewish convert to Christianity, holds that a date in the Fall is most likely, and, as I'm always inclined to listen to him in such matters, I believe that to be true, as well.

Eric The(Christmas-Celebrating)Hun[>]:)]

Post from seamusmcoi -

There was simply no pagan holiday that can be associated with Easter, which, more correctly should be referred to as 'Resurrection Sunday.'

The symbols that have become [b]associated[/b] with that Christian holiday, are indeed pagan, such as the egg and the rabbit. But the holiday itself is not an adaptation of some previous pagan celebration.

The date of Easter owes nothing to pagan sources of any kind, but simply to the Jewish calendar and the computation of Passover.

Eric The(Easter)Hun[>]:)]

________________________________________________


   He invented the Kwanzaa hut and Malcolm X was born on X-mas.

I associate it with the MASS MURDER of HELPLESS SESSILE TREES.  You heartless Communist bastards.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

I'm gonna have to say it's mostly about being around family and friends for me.

Next in line would be the Solstice.

Eric, I propose two questions:
(1)Who gave the command, and where is it commanded that the day of the birth of Christ was to be an Holy day, remembered and celebrated with the exchanging of gifts and yadda, yadda...... until his return?  If it WAS commanded, wouldent we have been given a precise time BY YAHWEH in which to celebrate his sons birth?  Anything Yahweh commanded for Israel to celebrate had precise dates and times, like passover, Sabbath, various feasts etc.....
(2)Where is it commanded to celebrate his birth in the traditional way we do?  Yes, the giving of gifts [b]to one another[/b] (not to a king upon his arrival) and the standing up of a tree and worshiping it by singing to it and decorating it (worshiping the creation and not the creator) is purely from pagan origins. These traditions are totally worthless to Yahweh, and he states how he feels about it in Jeremiah.  
Example from your own Bible concerning these traditions(of men):

[red][b]Jeremiah 10[/b]NIV

1Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel.
2 This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the [b]heathen[/b] or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the [b]heathen[/b] are terrified by them.
3[b]For the customs of the peoples are [u]worthless;[/u] they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.[/b]
5 [u]Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk.[/u] [/red][LOL! Thats some of Yahweh's humor!] [red]Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." [/b]
6No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power! [/red]


Man, if that isn’t clear and precise I dunno what is.  

Yahweh gave many commands, and you [b]knew[/b] they were commands by the way he gave them.  I’ve found no such command concerning Christ’s birth, but only concerning what we are suppose to be doing before his return.  
The traditions we exercise for x-mas (tree’s and presents etc..) are “worthless” to Yahweh AND Yah'shuah.  It even risk's offending him!

Luke 11:
27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
[red]28 He replied, [b]"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."[/b][/red] NIV






Halloween of course.  That’s CLEARLY pagan!  

Post from Boom Stick -

Not the Lord, that's for certain. I am of a belief that every day is a 'Holy Day' for Christians, every day is Christmas cause He was born this day for us, every day a 'Good Friday' cause He died this day for us, and every day a Resurrection Sunday cause He arose this day for us, every day is a Sunday cause it is the 'Lord's Day. But that's impractical, isn't it?

The denomination that I attend used to be big in 'why we don't celebrate Christmas' so I am extremely familiar with the pagan roots for some of the Christmas [u]customs[/u] that we borrowed from pagans (especially the Huns!), but I am also mindful of Christ's response to His disciples when they came to Him to ask Him to forbid a certain fellow from doing works in His name. It appears that someone who was not among Jesus' followers was performing works of some nature in the name of Christ. Jesus replied that He would not forbid the man to continue, because anyone doing the Lord's work could not lightly speak evil of Him. See Mark 9:39, Luke 9:50.

From this I understand that if something celebrates Jesus, or causes others to celebrate Jesus, it is something that not only should not be discouraged, but actually encouraged!

Think of all the families that are reunited at Christmas, think of all the reconciliations that take place during Christmas, think of all the poor folks who get fed, whose children receive gifts during Christmas, think of all the charities who do good works in His name during the Christmas season, think of all the families that go to Church for possibly the only time of the year during Christmas, think of all the children who get better acquainted with Jesus or meet Him for the first time during Christmas, think of all the songs and hymns that are sung in praise of His Name, think of all the good works that are wrought during the Christmas season, think of all the 'hearts of the children that are turned to the Father' during Christmas, think of all the good, pure, loving thoughts that are generated among the people for the sake of Him and His birthday, think of all the gifts that are freely given to young and old alike, teaching them the beauty and blessedness of giving, and, finally, think about the freedom that we have received as Christians to worship Him in a free and open manner with the liberty as His Church in this world to decide that a day be set aside to celebrate His supposed birthdate!

Do you really think that Christ would forbid us to do these 'good works' in His Name?

Angels proclaimed His birth to men with songs and praises the First time He came, they will be silent on earth until He returns for us the Second time He comes!

- continued -

Post from Boom Stick -

We give gifts to one another in the manner that Christ was given gifts by the Wise Men.
We give gifts to family members, and friends, as tokens of our love and gratitude. We give gifts to total strangers in compliance with His will.

And we do all this in His name. Well, some of us do, I suppose.

But nowhere in Christendom am I aware of, are Christmas trees worshipped!

Devout German settlers to this Country in the 1830s brought their custom to our shores. These were good Christian people, not Druid priests or simple pagans.

If there's anything that Christ should have taught us, it is that empty and vain religion is to be discouraged. His religion is alive and well because He has a Church that is alive and well, and doing His good works until He comes again.

His Church has decided to celebrate His birthdate, and we'll stop when He commands us to stop!

I don't worship trees, not matter how prettily they may be decorated, nor did I teach my daughter to worship trees when she was growing up, nor my granddaughter now!

I do [u]compost[/u] Christmas trees after the holy days are over, however, but that's another subject.

[size=4][red]Wise Men Still Seek Him![/red][/size=4]

Eric The(InTheChristmasSpirit)Hun[>]:)]

Every year the Christians w/ persecution complex start about the word Xmas being some sort of plot to marginalize their god on His own birthday.  It is their own word and has been in use for centuries.  Look elsewhere for your martyrdom.

For me, my Birthday is the most important day of the year that I celebrate. Not because I am "stuck" on myself - but because that is the day I became part of this world. I try my best to live a good, honest life and be kind to others. I usually have a good time doing it too. Believe it or not, I always give one present to my Daughter and my Son on [i]my[/i] Birthday (just something special for my kids). I celebrate Xmas not because of "God", but because I enjoy the general "spirit" of X-mas - I guess it's the "giving and loving" part.


Tyler

Christmas is December 25th.
After everyone's asleep in bed, Santa Claus, driving a big sled pulled by reindeer, will land on your roof.
He will come down your chimney with a big bag of toys (that were made by his elves, on the North Pole).  If you've been good, all year, he will leave toys for you, under your Christmas tree.
If you've been bad, he will leave you a bundle of sticks, and a lump of coal (in your stocking).
That's what Christmas is all about.

But folks, seriously, you don't teach your children about Jesus?

Eric The(WhyInGod'sNameNot?)Hun[>]:)]

BTW. I am just courious, what exactly is the whole idea behind putting a tree in your living room anyway?  I have been wondering that for years....

Yes,  we will teach the children about Jesus.
That's why the glowing plastic Nativity is on the front lawn.
The children worry more about Santa, however, because Baby Jesus don't bring no toys.

Besides, as we all know, the important "Jesus-Related" holiday is Easter.
That's when the Easter bunny will pay us a visit.
[img]http://www.mainstrike.com/mstservices/WebCard/images/Easter/Easter_Bunny.gif[/img]

That’s the problem Eric, and Major-Murphy makes the point well.  Millions focus on [s]Satan[/s] Santa Clause, presents and Tree’s instead.

[b]O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me![/b]

That song has nothing to do with Christ, it’s all about a tree.  Millions of “Christians” are deceived into the tradition!

Why only on x-mas?  He was born…ok, that’s over now.  What’s more important is his work afterwards.  Everyone is born.  So the wise men gave gifts to the King.  I wish I could have been there to give him a gift too, but there’s no reason to mimic it now.  The charity Christ spoke of was “Love”, not items wrapped in paper.  The wise men gave gifts TO A KING!  We aren’t kings.  


There seem to be many who think they should!  We should be setting the example of telling them that the tree has NOTHING to do with Christ or his birth, and that the actions of setting up a tree [b]go against Yahweh![/b]  Did you read Jeremiah 10 at all?

Christ was saying that celebrating HIS BIRTH DIDN’T MATTER!!!!!!!  Neither does worshiping Mary matter to him! (there's a shot to the pills for the Catholics) He was more concerned with us following his fathers word, and obeying! Nothing else matters but that.


Don’t take out of context what Christ told his disciples.   He didn’t say it was OK to mix pagan tradition with Christianity.  X-mass is centered around pagan tradition, with Christ’s birth thrown in.  X-mass is a placebo, a contradiction, and steeped in pagan tradition. For those reasons it should be avoided not only for the sake of ourselves, but to set the example for others to follow and not be decieved.



He commanded his church on what to do from there on out.......and no where did it mention celebrating his birth.  That was mans idea.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of argument, but to motivate you to investigate my claims a little further.  Prove it right, or prove it wrong.  X-mass is a dangerous hoax and should be avoided.  The apostles(the original church) didn't celebrate it, and It wont be celebrated in the Kingdome.  The apostles were only worried about observing what they were directly commanded to; feasts, passover, Sabbath etc.  

My wife does, Eric The Hun.
I don't clutter their young minds with my agnosticism.  Hell, I even take my turn to say  the blessing on the food.

Sorry, Boom Stick, but I can't be responsible, nor is Jesus, that folks choose not to teach their children about Him!

But that's o.k., since there are millions of Christians right here in the good old USA who are willing to teach everyone's children about Him!

Even those of unbelieving parents! They are exceptionally easy targets![:D]

But you don't seriously think that Christmas is a hindrance to believing in Christ? No more than the Easter rituals keep folks from believing in His Resurrection.

Well now, let's see for every Christmas Carol you can name that concerns a [u]tree[/u], I will name 500 songs about Jesus, His Birth, the significance of His birth, His destiny, His Death, Burial and Resurrection, and on and on!

Why focus on the tree? Just don't go out and get a tree if it bothers you that much!

I think it's perfect symbolism that Jesus' Birth is connected to a tree, since His Death was upon a tree! And He is the Creator of all trees! It's a German-American custom to have a tree, at least from the 1830s, and one that has been adopted wholeheartedly by Americans of every descent. Even Jews!

How can anyone contemplate Christmas without thinking about Jesus? It's simple they can't, and this is the burr beneath their saddles!

Ho, Ho, Ho!

His Birth didn't matter? It was the dividing of times for the Gentiles! It was the union of God and Man! It was the incarnation of the Father! It was the tearing of the veil that stood between God and Man! It was His physical entry into the world that He created!

His BIRTH didn't matter? Read John 3:16 again slowly!

What the Lord was saying in the verses you cited, was that our earthly connections are far less important than our spiritual connection obtained by obedience to His will!

He didn't abandon His Mother, Mary, even on the Cross, but He died for her, as well as for us!

Are you deceived? Are your children deceived? Am I deceived? Is anyone deceived? I doubt it highly!

Only the pagans appear to be deceived!

And I cannot help what significance that others may place upon Christian celebrations, and whether they use symbols of tree or bunny!

Too much good is done in the name of Jesus for the sake of Christmas, so much so that He would likely encourage us to do whatever brought glory to the Father, and good works where none existed beforehand!

Period.

Eric The(HeNeverToldUsToCelebrateResurrectionSundayEither,OrAir-ConditionOurChurchBuildingsForThatMatter!)Hun[>]:)]

Post from Bearlaker -

Now that's the Christmas spirit if ever I saw it!

Give the children a foundation in what is right in this world, when they discover how truly messed up it is, they can decide for themselves whether it's His fault, or ours!

A believing wife will sanctify an unbelieving husband! Your wife sounds like a woman of great virtue. Hold fast to her!

Eric The(ForYourSakeAsWellAsYourChildren's)Hun[>]:)]

What does the celebration of holidays have to do with religion, anyway?
Where in the bible does is say to celebrate the birth of Christ?

The celebration of holidays is about people having a good time, eating, drinking, and being merry.

Why do you think they're called 'holidays'?

Hmmmm? t's from 'Holy Days' as in the Church.

If you pagans want a holiday of your own, you'll have to create another one!

It's too late to try and adopt Christmas, you lost that right long, long ago!

We stole it from you fair and square![:D]

Besides, you weren't using it at all. At least since Hadrian, the pagan, burned the last Druid priest on a stick!

Eric The(MaybeMidsummer'sNight?)Hun[>]:)]

You would know this better than I, but isn't the only "holiday' (holy-day) mentioned in scripture the sabbath?

All other holidays are manmade constructs.
Including Christmas.

We are responsible for setting the example.  Granted if other dont follow it we aren't responsible.



My correction was that the "Celebration" of his birth was not important.  What happened after his birth was more important.  I read it slowly, and John 3:16 doesn't justify a celebration of his birth(pagan tradition), nor the mixing of pagan traditions into Christianity(x-mass).  The angels heralded his birth, but after that there was no reason to focus on it. His work afterwards and now is the focus.

I guess celebrating his birth is some kind of backwards compatability?



Not true.  Millions of nominal Christians are deceived by the very "Church's" they attend. They blindly follow their pastors over the edge.  Christ warned that Many would prophesy in his name, but they are false prophets.  So yes, many are and will be decieved thinking they are following christianity.  Satan only taints the truth [b]just enough[/b] to lead people astray, just like a counterfit bill.  Thats why I avoid X-mass, and so should others.


I can see where this is going, and I guess your next question would be:
"How does anyone know they are right in their interpretations and beliefs of the Bible, anyways?"

Post from Boom Stick -

Says who?

That's why Christian soup kitchens are open year round, it's just that we do very brisk business during the Christmas season!

The 'others' can take from that what they will!

Those false shepherds will be the very ones that will be most astonished when they are consigned to Hell as 'workers of iniquity', now, won't they?

And for 'nominal' Christians, do they worship a nominal Christ? Then they too are lost!

By searching the scriptures earnestly to see if these things are not rightly expressed. Like the Bereans in Paul's day.

Eric The(Berean)Hun[>]:)]

I have to repeat myself:
Satan taints the truth just enough to lead people astray, just like a counterfit bill. Thats why I avoid X-mass, and so should others.  X-mass is tainted with rituals and traditions originating with satan, brought in by the ******** church 70 some odd years after Christs Ascension.

All you have to do is read a college history book to find the origins of X-mass, and it isn't directed from Christ or his Church, or the Bible.  



The rest of the Bible after his birth, thats who.  There is NO evidence of it being made manditory, nor was it even mentioned or celebrated by the Apostles.  
Satan knows this too, but ritual and tradition are his trademark vehicle for lies and delusion.

And an argument from the 'silence' of history is the weakest of all arguments.

And what makes you think the Catholic Church was founded 70 years after 32 AD? It certainly wasn't founded until well after that.

At least til after the Council of Trent(?). Until then it was just the Church at Rome, presided over by a Bishop of Rome.

That's all.

The Bishop of Alexandria Egypt was more highly regarded than the Bishop of Rome!

Eric The(PolycarpIsMyFriend)Hun[>]:)]

I don't care what either of you say!

I can't wait for Santa Claus to arrive...
[img]http://chaoskids.com/ROBOTS/SANTA/cover_big.jpg[/img]

I was unaware this was going into the insulting of each others grounds for argument.  The absence of such a thing in the Bible says a lot, especially considering the evil of how pagan tradition was sneeked into this supposed "Christian" tradition.  The Jews were scolded By Christ for their traditions, because it tainted the truth.

The truth has been tainted, and the delusion has been brought in by the vehicle of tradition and ritual....namely pagan rituals and tradition.





I didn't say Catholic.  

At this point, the discussion is only valuable to those who are motivated to challenge mens traditions.  


Eric, you have the floor.


"Elvis has left the building"

X-men?