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Posted: 12/17/2001 7:10:53 AM EDT
I am looking at entering the field Executive Protection to field to supplement my income. I have been looking at several schools so far Executive Security International in Aspen, CO seems to have the most through program. Has anyone on this board attended any of their training? Are they a reputable school? Thanks in advance for any information anyone may provide.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 12:05:35 PM EDT
I have heard a lot of good things about ESI, and they have been around for a long time. Yes, VERY reputable, and worth the price, from what I hear.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 12:32:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:05:28 PM EDT
ESI?......[:P]......cough choke....Hahahhaahahahaahaha! [:P] Sorry, I couldn't help myself! [:P] I'd like to see someone who has the stones to recommend them! I'd also like them to state their experience in the field! DaMan
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:35:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2001 5:52:54 PM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By kpel308: I am intrigued about your negative comment. What was bad about it? What would you recommend over it? What didn't suit you? Semper Fi!
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kpel308, first off, what is the length of their course? Any prerequisites or do they just require cash up front? What are the qualifications of the instructors (I've met a few and they are JOKES!)? Would you hire a body guard who learned from "Distance Education"? Think about that! Why have a school in Aspen? One of the most expensive tourist cities in the States! Shorter distance for the main staff to go to collect their tuition money??!! [:P] I'd like to hear from an instructor or someone who's attended that bogus course! Bring 'em on! DaMan PS- kpel308, I notice you sign off with "Semper Fi!". You're Marine training is worth FAR MORE than this bogus school! And your training in the Marines didn't cost you a thing..... $ wise that is!
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:56:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 4:23:06 PM EDT
What do "executive" bodyguards earn? [:P] Just wondering! DaMan
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 4:54:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kpel308: The 5 days I spent at BSR were very good, but it was mainly for the driving aspects of the job. It did improve my driving, and was one of the best experiences of my life. If I was still involved in the field, I would take a long, hard look at Crucible. Former Marine runs it, and the fact that he's always being asked to comment on Fox News isn't all bad. You were right that my USMC training stood me in good stead, but a lot of the particulars were missing. I tended to be a bit "gung-ho", which I had always thought was a good thing, but they want a mellow personality. The best way to take care of something is to not even have the principal notice that an action has been taken. An "event" should not even get on their radar screen. Man, I miss it, but I'm kind of glad that I have weekends off, and only work 10 hour days[;D] Good luck to MarkIV. Semper Fi!
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Oh, brother! This stuff is funny! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 5:53:00 PM EDT
I had heard some mixed reviews from some other sources, that is why I wanted to ask around here. Anyone have any other suggestions for EP schools other than the ones mentioned here?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 3:19:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 4:30:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kpel308: Anyhow, I'm trying to see what amuses you about my comments. I was trying to be as helpful and frank as I could be.
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Sorry, kpel308, but wages and the perks you listed doesn't make me want to do "executive baby sitting and chauffeur/"butt"-ler" duty in some high cost of living area (Chicago?). Boring and long hours with little personal time! And the ESI school is not going to get your foot in the door without some other special/related occupational experience. You're not doing these guys a favor who are contemplating spending their money on this bogus school thinking they'll be high speed/low drag "body guards". Just my take on it. DaMan
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:52:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:24:36 AM EDT
ESI (Executive Security International) is one of the top executive security schools and oldest in the United States. The training offered by ESI is second only to the U.S Secret Service. I am personally familar with ESI and can tell you that the information and indepth study material is the best and most current available. Many of ESI's graduates currently work for or have worked for top Fortune 500 companys, Top U.S and international Government Officials, Corporate Presidents and the list goes no. I urge anyone interested in the EP field to checkout ESI's website at: www.esi-lifeforce.com and make (your own) decision. Don't let Jealously, Envy and Ignorance persuade you. Check out ESI for YOURSELF!
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:44:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Prof7: ESI (Executive Security International) is one of the top executive security schools and oldest in the United States. The training offered by ESI is second only to the U.S Secret Service. I am personally familar with ESI and can tell you that the information and indepth study material is the best and most current available. Many of ESI's graduates currently work for or have worked for top Fortune 500 companys, Top U.S and international Government Officials, Corporate Presidents and the list goes no. I urge anyone interested in the EP field to checkout ESI's website at: www.esi-lifeforce.com and make (your own) decision. Don't let Jealously, Envy and Ignorance persuade you. Check out ESI for YOURSELF!
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Prof7, I notice this is your first post.... so welcome to AR15.com! Also thank-you for your e-mail. I agree with you. Those interested in ESI should check out their advertisement claims and research the organization. They should also ask if their, quite substantial, investment in ESI training, is reasonably likely to secure them employment in the EP field. Or will $2.40 and a certificate from ESI only get you a small cup of dark drip from Starbucks? Eagerly awaiting your comments! DaMan
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:08:58 PM EDT
I see you also asked your question on the Tactical Forums "Executive Protection and Bodyguard Forum". How do you compare their answers to what you're getting here? See here for a different perspective: [url]http://www.tacticalforums.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:54:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Prof7: ESI (Executive Security International) is one of the top executive security schools and oldest in the United States. The training offered by ESI is second only to the U.S Secret Service. I am personally familar with ESI and can tell you that the information and indepth study material is the best and most current available. Many of ESI's graduates currently work for or have worked for top Fortune 500 companys, Top U.S and international Government Officials, Corporate Presidents and the list goes no. I urge anyone interested in the EP field to checkout ESI's website at: www.esi-lifeforce.com and make (your own) decision. Don't let Jealously, Envy and Ignorance persuade you. Check out ESI for YOURSELF!
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2nd only to the USSS? Yeah right, you're forgetting quite a few other high-speed low-drag agencies that have training that will make this look like a joke. Distance Learning for Exec-Protection? Right [V]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:01:13 AM EDT
Part One: I am intrigued why someone would take the time to make the negative comments listed here about ESI without offering any experiential evidence to support the opinion and position that they are propagating. A good rule of thumb is to do just as you already are – seek the opinion of others with regard to various programmes and institutions available offering support and tuition to individuals either working in or aspiring to work in EP. But the caveat here is this: only take the advice from professionals who are actually where you want to be. I have personal experience with ESI, but let me first premise this statement with a brief quip about my background. - I spent 12 years in federal service. 3 of which was in dignitary protection. - I have consulted in the areas of EP and intelligence respectively since 1993 to corporations, government agencies, and private persons - I have 21 governmental and civilian instructor level certifications related to tactical training, SWAT, MOUNT, SRT, intelligence, and others - I graduated from a police academy in CA - I have an AS in administration of justice - I have a BS in administration of justice – Minor in philosophy and Latin - I have a law degree – International Law Focus - I have an MBA – 20,000 word Thesis on Economic Espionage - I will have an MSc in Global Security from the Royal Military College of Science, Swindon, England, by next year [the first American to attend this program] My intention in sharing this is not to impress but to establish a prima fascia level of credibility with the reader so that my statements do not appear to be uneducated (experientially or academically), ill intended, or based upon a bias through which personal animosities or other emotional foibles are filtered.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:02:56 AM EDT
Part Two: I consider Bob Dugan (the founder of ESI) to be a man of strong character with upright intentions. ESI’s curriculum, staff, and activities mirror this without question. As to the distance learning modular material provided to students by ESI – they are well written, based upon strong analytical research, and reasonably inline with modern EP principles. The various modules include enough material to lay a solid academic foundation, but are not all-inclusive. I should also note that nowadays technology, postal services, and other logistical support in education reduce residential requirements significantly – for virtually any field of study. Recent studies by Open University (a fully recognized and regionally accredited university offering baccalaureate, masters, and doctoral level degrees via external degree programs ONLY) have shown, unequivocally, that the level of growth and material content assimilation among mature EDP (external degree program) students is remarkable. Regents University in New York does not have any residential requirements for a number of their undergraduate and graduate degrees – and they too are regionally accredited (the highest you can have in the US). However, distance learning will only facilitate reasoned and not tactile experiential growth in a student; it can definitely aid in the knowledge attainment process rather well if someone is willing to invest him or herself completely. As a university level visiting lecturer, I have encountered many people who have attained undergraduate and graduate level degrees purely via attendance (as I did) but who are, without question, mentally bankrupt and completely inept. It will often boil down to the person – not necessarily the institution. Despite my support of EDP and distance learning on a whole (all learning should be encouraged), you cannot become an effective and efficient EP agent without having hands-on vocational instruction. Period. Since I have not personally attended the 15-day residential training ESI offers as part of its program, I cannot give you an informed opinion about it. However, I have a number of close associates who have and they rate it favorably. ESI has been around for sometime in the US and it has a strong reputation in the community – some will argue that reputation is good and others will say it is bad. I have found little “wrong” with what they provide but I would not place ESI second only to the US Secret Service, or a number of other governmental agencies throughout the US and Europe for that matter. But I have no reservations about recommending them to you for civilian level education. Ultimately, we are looking at two very important things – the amount of money you will be spending, and the quality of product or service you will have in relation to the money you have spent. ESI is reasonable and on par with other civilian EP schools in the US. You should spend a considerable amount of time investigating ESI (and other schools) before settling on a choice. At the end of the day, you are responsible for your future and you can succeed by an act of your own volition – with or without the support of others. I wish you well.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:23:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 6:33:08 PM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By Periculum: I am intrigued why someone would take the time to make the negative comments listed here about ESI without offering any experiential evidence to support the opinion and position that they are propagating.
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Yes, Periculum....I am ALSO intrigued by those who would take the time and effort, IN A TWO PART POST, to refute negative comments about ESI! And I am further intrigued by someone who would feel the need to establish his "bona fides" on the internet![:P] Of course, I believe you! [:P] DaMan PS- Does the Royal Military College have a "distance/correspondence" course for MSc in Global Security? [:P]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:41:41 PM EDT
Periculum, He's always like this, ignore him.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:44:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Attman: Periculum, He's always like this, ignore him.
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He always exposes liars and frauds? [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:15:57 PM EDT
It is obvious that you have a serious problem with ESI and the training this organization offers. I personally don't have a problem with that, as you are entitled to voice your own opinon under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (Freedom of Speech). However, I do have a problem with your continued "Public Slandering" of a highly respected Executive Security organization that for nearly 20 years has proven itself to be one of the best executive protection schools in the United States. Therefore, I caution you to cease your negative comments and slanderous remarks regarding ESI or you risk being sued and/or brought up on State/Federal charges. This is my last message post on this matter to you Sir. I have contacted the appropriate investigative authorities, and your comments on the internet are being monitored and filed for evidence (not only on the AR15 forum, but other forums as well). I suggest that from this point forward, if you have anything negative to say regarding ESI, that you contact ESI headquarters in Aspen, Colorado and voice your opinon personally and be done with it. ESI is a professional organization and this situation will be handled in a professional manner as well. I would advise anyone seeking detailed information on ESI to visit their website at: www.esi-lifeforce.com or contact the Academy directly. I would also advise any ESI agents monitoring this situation, not to pursue this matter any longer, as it is being investigated. Prof. L.C. Holifield, Ph.D./MA., ES. President, I.A.E.P.S.D.T.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:48:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 7:46:56 PM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By ProfH: It is obvious that you have a serious problem with ESI and the training this organization offers. I personally don't have a problem with that, as you are entitled to voice your own opinon under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (Freedom of Speech). However, I do have a problem with your continued "Public Slandering" of a highly respected Executive Security organization that for nearly 20 years has proven itself to be one of the best executive protection schools in the United States. Therefore, I caution you to cease your negative comments and slanderous remarks regarding ESI or you risk being sued and/or brought up on State/Federal charges. Prof. L.C. Holifield, Ph.D./MA., ES. President, I.A.E.P.S.D.T.
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DUHH!??? [:P] Contact your legal counsel! [:P] Have them contact me by certified mail. I find you guys funny! [:P] How would you like to refute my claims, Dr. Holifield? DaMan
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:17:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Periculum: Part Two: As to the distance learning modular material provided to students by ESI – they are well written, based upon strong analytical research, and reasonably inline with modern EP principles. The various modules include enough material to lay a solid academic foundation, but are not all-inclusive. ...but I would not place ESI second only to the US Secret Service, or a number of other governmental agencies throughout the US and Europe for that matter. But I have no reservations about recommending them to you for civilian level education.
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Again, you cannot learn this type of work over the computer. It takes hands on experience. At least you seem to admit that there are way more agencies besides the USSS that are deeply into this type of high level protection. And all these agecnies don't train thier agents through the mail either....
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:19:16 PM EDT
Prof. L.C. Holifield, Ph.D./MA., ES. President, I.A.E.P.S.D.T.
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I don't believe I've ever in my life seen so many useless letters after a name. Johnny T.H.A.N.K.G.O.D.I.M.N.O.T.T.H.A.T.P.O.M.P.U.S.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:20:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:24:59 PM EDT
Lets say for example I have first hand experience with people who are on USSS protection details. Lets also say, for continuity of the argument, that I know ESI graduates. If I had to choose one to protect my life, I would choose the USSS veteran. If I needed some in an asset protection arena, the ESI graduates would be adequate. ESI is a place to get training. It is like comparing Marines Scout / Sniper school to a commercial shooting school that offers a "Sniper" course. In general, you cannot go wrong with training. To the Professor and Lawyer: Lighten up, if the training is as good as you claim, it will speak for itself. Just list the agencies that send students to ESI.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:39:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QCMGR: Lets say for example I have first hand experience with people who are on USSS protection details. Lets also say, for continuity of the argument, that I know ESI graduates
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You mean a computer course and 10 days of "hands on" can't compare to years of training?? Imagine that [^]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:43:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LE6920:
Originally Posted By QCMGR: Lets say for example I have first hand experience with people who are on USSS protection details. Lets also say, for continuity of the argument, that I know ESI graduates
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You mean a computer course and 10 days of "hands on" can't compare to years of training?? Imagine that [^]
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In a nut shell.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:51:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By ProfH: It is obvious that you have a serious problem with ESI and the training this organization offers. I personally don't have a problem with that, as you are entitled to voice your own opinon under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (Freedom of Speech). However, I do have a problem with your continued "Public Slandering" of a highly respected Executive Security organization that for nearly 20 years has proven itself to be one of the best executive protection schools in the United States. Therefore, I caution you to cease your negative comments and slanderous remarks regarding ESI or you risk being sued and/or brought up on State/Federal charges. Prof. L.C. Holifield, Ph.D./MA., ES. President, I.A.E.P.S.D.T.
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DUHH!??? [:P] Contact your legal counsel! [:P] Have them contact me by certified mail. I find you guys funny! [:P] How would you like to refute my claims, Dr. Holifield? DaMan
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Hey L.C.; You are a Doctor of ?. What kind of state and federal charges are you talking about? Violation of the Knudsen Act? Please advise. Also, is it Dr. or Mr. President? Please tell us more about your organization?
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:00:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:06:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: "I would also advise any ESI agents monitoring this situation, not to pursue this matter any longer, as it is being investigated." Yikes the agents of ESI!! Thank God the Prof called them off before they swept into action. Let me just check out the front windows just in case...
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…and they wonder why they have a bad reputation.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 11:14:36 PM EDT
I wonder if they have a cool song about them ...like the "green berets" do??
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 4:22:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Are any reputable companies going to hire someone for a bodyguard position without law enforcement or similar military training? How long is the secret service academy? Can you pick up enough in 10 days to safely guard someone when the military and police departments provide months of training?
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Aimless, the ESI "shills" are not going to answer your first question. But the honest answer is not only "NO"...... but, "HELL NO"! No REPUTABLE company is going to hire someone for executive protection without Law Enforcement or equivalent Military experience! The USSS academy is 11 WEEKS for their Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy which is followed by an ADDITIONAL 11 weeks of USSS specialized training. And keep in mind, they only accept extremely qualified candidates! ESI doesn't care if you will ever qualify for a job or not. They want to see the $GREEN$!!!! But, I must say, I was surprised by some of the bizarre comments made by present and former ESI staff on this thread! Lies......more damn lies...... and then bogus threats! I'd think twice before I'd spend my hard earned money on an ESI course! They are BOZO's! DaMan
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 4:31:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2001 4:32:10 PM EDT by QCMGR]
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By Aimless: Are any reputable companies going to hire someone for a bodyguard position without law enforcement or similar military training? How long is the secret service academy? Can you pick up enough in 10 days to safely guard someone when the military and police departments provide months of training?
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Aimless, the ESI "shills" are not going to answer your first question. But the honest answer is not only "NO"...... but, "HELL NO"! No REPUTABLE company is going to hire someone for executive protection without Law Enforcement or equivalent Military experience! The USSS academy is 11 WEEKS for their Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy which is followed by an ADDITIONAL 11 weeks of USSS specialized training. And keep in mind, they only accept extremely qualified candidates! ESI doesn't care if you will ever qualify for a job or not. They want to see the $GREEN$!!!! But, I must say, I was surprised by some of the bizarre comments made by present and former ESI staff on this thread! Lies......more damn lies...... and then bogus threats! I'd think twice before I'd spend my hard earned money on an ESI course! They are BOZO's! DaMan
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Sounds like a violation of the Knudsen Act. What happen to the Professor? What the hell is he President of?
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:25:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 9:10:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:46:33 PM EDT
Close-Quarter Combat : A Soldier's Guide to Hand-To-Hand Fighting by Leonard Holifield Paperback - 120 pages (May 1997) Paladin Press; ISBN: 0873649249 Amazon.com Sales Rank: 51,665 An inferior Hand-to-Hand Combat Manual, June 19, 2001 Reviewer: A reader from Phoenix, Arizona This is simply a poor book. The moves are, as an earlier reviewer pointed out, overly complex. The moves borrow too heavily from jiu-jutso, which seems to be endemic among the Army's hand-to-hand combat program. A much bettter book on the subject of Close-Quarters Battle is "CLOSE COMBAT" by USMC; the Marines' system is much more simple and pragmatic. Their book is also almost half the price of this nonsense and 10 times as detailed. Though the book was definetly a waste of money t does have, however, a good psychological ops section and some good techniques for the reversal/counter to punches. Other good books besides "CLOSE COMBAT" regarding HtH include "Get Tough" by Capt. Fairbairn and "Commando Fighting Techniques" by Jim Wilson and Paul Evans, all availible through Amazon.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:08:49 PM EDT
I must be missing something. Why would anyone want to sign on as a private bullet catcher for 34K a year? Jeezus! I make double that typing on a computer and NEVER do more than 40 hours a week! Save your money for some IT classes and use your superior income to buy all the guns ya want!
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:57:52 PM EDT
I am a graduate of ESI and would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 12:02:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jtw2: I must be missing something. Why would anyone want to sign on as a private bullet catcher for 34K a year? Jeezus! I make double that typing on a computer and NEVER do more than 40 hours a week! Save your money for some IT classes and use your superior income to buy all the guns ya want!
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The glory, jtw, the glory!
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 1:11:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LBorgens: I am a graduate of ESI and would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
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They are like Moonies.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 4:01:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 6:28:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LBorgens: I am a graduate of ESI and would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
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Where do all these 1st timers come from? Maybe the training is good, 6 professors, 9 former clients, 17 Doctors and 84 VIPs have come forward to say so. (i'm not very good at math)
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 2:42:09 PM EDT
Oh I forgot about the glory after I turned 11. Sorry bout that. Carry on.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 7:39:02 PM EDT
Hey [:P], I want to argue with someone[:P] It's not fair the DaMan gets [:P] to argue with everyone.[:P] Please post[:P] something new[:P] so I can get in[:P]on teh action too[:P].
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 11:15:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2001 11:12:22 AM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By kpel308: And, would you mind telling us what training that would be available to civilians you WOULD recommend?
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First off, I would recommend against going into Executive Protection. Not because it's dangerous, but because it's long hours, boring and the pay ain't that hot for what is required of you. And as far as training for this "career", just ask yourself what kind of training you would like someone to have, if they were protecting YOUR BUTT! I don't know about you, but an ESI certificate isn't high on my list of requirements. DaMan PS - Good news! Prof. H has sent me an e-mail (the 2nd one since his "FINAL WARNING") stating he is not going to pursue his previous threats of legal action against me. I am SO relieved! He even wished me a Merry Christmas! What a guy! [:P]
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 11:44:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By kpel308: And, would you mind telling us what training that would be available to civilians you WOULD recommend?
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First off, I would recommend against going into Executive Protection. Not because it's dangerous, but because it's long hours, boring and the pay ain't that hot for what is required of you. And as far as training for this "career", just ask yourself what kind of training you would like someone to have, if they were protecting YOUR BUTT! I don't know about you, but an ESI certificate isn't high on my list of requirements. DaMan PS - Good news! Prof. H has sent me an e-mail (the 2nd one since his "FINAL WARNING") stating he is not going to pursue his previous threats of legal action against me. I am SO relieved! He even wished me a Merry Christmas! What a guy! [:P]
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I think he is a Dr. of Scatology. Of course, he could be under the control of "Mr. Big” and is under a gag order. They told him to back off while they assemble the “cleaners.” The funny thing is they actually are full time janitors that do EP on the side.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 12:10:53 PM EDT
Boy, I sure am glad some doctor, professor, CEO, trained bodygaurd with an alphabet soup tacked on his name isn't threatening to file suit against me. Especially for something like saying "check this out" before you spend your dollars. Unf*&^ing believeable.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 12:33:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QCMGR: I think he is a Dr. of Scatology.
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Damn, QCMGR! My education is sadly lacking! But, I'm attempting to improve that through "distant studies" on AR-15.com. There actually IS a field of study named "scatology"! [:P] DaMan
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