The proud mother
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[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011215/capt.1008420011mideast_israel_palestinians_xlr107.jpg[/img]
Palestinian boys face off with an Israeli tank, taunting the crewmen and throwing stones during clashes in Beit Hanoun at the northern end of the Gaza Strip Saturday, Dec. 15, 2001. Israeli troops and tanks searching for militants moved into Palestinian areas at the northern and southern ends of the Gaza Strip before dawn Saturday. (AP Photo/Laurent Rebours)
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SHOOT ME I WANT MY 7 VIRGINS!!!!
Note mom has split.
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[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011215/capt.1008419832mideast_israel_palestinians_xlr109.jpg[/img]
Barefoot Palestinian boys throw stones at an Israeli tank during clashes in Beit Hanoun at the northern end of the Gaza Strip, Saturday, Dec. 15, 2001. Israeli troops and tanks searching for militants moved into Palestinian areas at the northern and southern ends of the Gaza Strip. (AP Photo/Laurent Rebours)
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These kids split….
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[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011215/capt.1008417672mideast_israel_palestinians_xlr106.jpg[/img]
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and out comes the one mom really chose to die.
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[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011215/capt.1008417432mideast_israel_palestinians_xlr105.jpg[/img]

A barefoot Palestinian boy aims his toy plastic assault rifle at Israeli tanks during clashes in Beit Hanoun at the northern end of the Gaza Strip, Saturday, Dec. 15, 2001. Israeli troops and tanks searching for militants moved into Palestinian areas at the northern and southern ends of the Gaza Strip before dawn Saturday. (AP Photo/Laurent Rebours)
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One little important fact here ppl. This tank had been fired on earlier – Guy in a blue jogging suit....

I wish I toy guns like that when I was a kid. whats that supposed to be anyway? galil?

Maybe if he had a better stance he could pull off the same stunt Capt. Miller did in Saving Private Ryan.

Kharn

I think they wanted him to look like this guy and I believe he's got an Egyptian AK.

[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011215/capt.1008421388mideast_israel_palestinians_xlr108.jpg[/img]

They have gone beyond using kids for cover. Now they are trying everything in the book to get the Israelis to kill one of these kids.  (I don’t think the camera man was meant to see the part where they really shot at the tanks.)

.
.
.
The more I find out about militant muslims, the less sympathy I have for any of them.

Either that, [b]DoubleFeed[/b], or they want us to think that only [u]un[/u]-armed children are being killed by Israelis!

The media's liberal bias is being served either way!

Eric The(Zionist)Hun[>]:)]

I’m fairly certain it really is a toy.
- The scale of it is pretty much a dead give away.
- The barrel and op rod tube has a plastic look to it.
- It would serve their purpose better, should the tanks cupola gun chew the kid up.

Have you noticed that every guy with a mask and a gun is “a Palestinian police man”?

[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20011216/mdf101398.jpg[/img]
Masked Palestinian policemen run during an operation to close offices and society centers with connections to the militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, in the West Bank city of Hebron, December 16, 2001. The Palestinian security service shut down offices and society centers in raids throughout the night. (Nayef Hashlamoun/Reuters)

[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20011215/mdf100849.jpg[/img]
The Palestinians apparently have a lot of 'policemen'.

nice krink in the last one!

Are there any "innocent" Palistinian civilians?
Were there any "innocent" German civilians in World War II?

Every day I care less and less what Isreal does about Palistine...

The Israelis are killing children with arms as well,as well as those without arms. Your right on about liberal media bias.Fuck-em, one media puke had the nerve to ask an IDF Col. in full battle gear in Gaza, why were they using live ammunition on stone throwers? His battle hardened reply was that,"Stones can kill".
   It's Gods grace that prevented me from being killed by VC/NVA stone throwers in Vietnam. I do happen to remember that the rules of engagement, as well as that 'pinko' Geneva Convention document forbad using live ammunition on rock chuckers over, or under 18 years old...Damn, so much killing so little time.
       GIB..'The bleeding heart'.............(if stones were outlawed,only outlaws would get shot) ;{>

Nothing new under the sun.
It's only sad that instead of keeping their children inside home, safe and away from riots, they push children to throw stones in order to cover Palestinese militants that use firearms.
It was a common tactic used also in Somalia, Vietnam and so on.
It comes in a particularly bitter moment. Just now I had a bitter and violent discussion about this subject with my boss (we are Italians...) that bothers me always with the same old bullshit about the "colonization" of Israel by the Jewish people. I think that is sad that two people that have very much in common, one that just found again a land where he can rule after 20 centuries of persecutions and discrimination, and another one that has been displaced, and lost his land partly because of the jews and part because their arab "friends", cannot find another way to fix the issue.

Originally posted by ArmedLiberal
Every day I care less and less what Isreal does about Palistine...[/quote]
______________________________________________

And it seems I care less and less about what the Palestinians do to the Israeli's.
Sometime since 9/11 I saw a Palestenian interviewed about the use of "terrorists bombers."
The guy says "We have no fighter planes, no helicopters, no tanks with which to fight; we have only ourselves to use as weapons."

Let me quickly admit my statement is certainly influenced by Jewish Politicians, Schumer, Feinstein, etc., who would completely disarm every American citizen while assuring Israel will have and we will pay for an F-16 and Main battle-tank in each garage and a select-fire weapon in every closet.

I'm tired of Jewish Politicians that are two-ounce doves about America and four hundred pound Hawks when it comes to Israel.

As an ally, I'll take Palestine.  At least I don't understand them as well as Israel.

Listen to you.
Just oozing anti-semitism.
Seething with ignorance.

"...influenced by Jewish Politicians, Schumer, Feinstein, etc..."

What do these people have to do with Israel?
The fact that they're jewish?

You hate jews so much that you would actually ally yourself with those who celebrate the attacks of September 11th.

You disgust me.

You are willing to be an ally of the people that danced when they heard of the WTC terror attack, and enemy of the people that only 4 days after made a big manifestation to express solidariety with the USA and the victims.

Prejudices made people blind...

I'll reserve judgment on these pics until there are ENEMY tanks rolling thru MY neighborhood. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Walk a mile...

garandman, the palestinians danced and cheered when the attack occurred.  
They didn't care who it was that died, as long as it was an American.
They were dancing on YOUR'S and MY graves.

People need to learn to look beyond their anti-semitic instincts.

The palestinians support Osama, the Israelis support US.
Wake up.

You talk tuff, Major.

Still I say "Wait till tanks are rolling thru YOUR neighborhood. WHEN you dig thru the rubble that USED TO BE your house, uncovering the charred bodies of your loved ones, and you find country X's  missile caused the carnage, THEN let's talk."

Its REAL easy to curse others when you haven't walked in their shoes.

For my money, ALL the Isrealis and Palestinains are shatbirds, and not deserving of my sympatjies, or tax dollars. This is an opinion I have stated OVER AND OVER in this forum.

For you to insinuate "anti-semitism" on my part is intellectually lazy, and indicates the lack of a good argument against the discussion pointds I make. Just like the Liberals who associate guns and terrorists, you are NO better than they.

ONCE you have experienced what teh palestianians have experienced, and can discuss this WITHOUT hurling slanderous charachterizations at me, THEN let's talk. Till then, it ain't worth my time to read your posts on this subject.

_____________________________________________
Actually I've tried to live my adult life as a fiscal conservative and a racial moderate.

Most negative comments about Jews or Israel bring on charges of anti-semitism and those making the comments back away apologizing and trying to explain they are not anti-semetic.  This tactic has worked very well since WWII.

I'm not anti-semetic but I am sick and tired of the same Jewish politicians having one agenda for America and one totally different for Israel.  Be a hawk or be a dove but be consistent.

As for the "laughing Palestinians" yes I saw the fat woman with the mongoose-tongue, six or eight kids and the two guys in the truck smiling.

My hatred is reserved not for those who laughed but for those countries participating in the attack.  I believe 15 of the 19 were Saudi's ?

During the Gulf War when our military had it all on the line the Israeli Airforce commented they could do the job far better and faster and claimed they were about to step in and do the job if we couldn't.  There is a time to keep a mouth shut and that war was one of those times.

Israel as our faithful ally - I don't believe so.

"You disgust me."  That sentence steps over the boundary.

You exactely exposed the holy truth.
In a very recent reportage made by the Italian TV, believe that they are not pro Israel at all, the journalist that was interviewing Palestinians in Gaza said that about 70 % of the palestinians thinks that Usama Bin Laden is a great man...

Garandman, in case you haven't heard, or don't wish to hear, these are the very friggin people who danced when they heard of the attack on America!

If I could ask the Lord for a favor, it would be to remove the legs from every individual who danced on that day, remove the tongue from every mouth that celebrated or cheered that day, and remove the heart from every chest that was proud that day!

I know that He won't grant me that favor [u]now[/u], but there will come a day of reckoning, and if He chooses to use 'His people' in some manner for a 'day of God's vengeance'...who am I to complain!

I will pray that your heart softens on this matter one day!

The Israelis are doing our job right now - punishing those whose actions encouraged, supported, or assisted the criminal terrorists who were responsible for Sept 11. And if you don't think that the Palestinians have [b]not[/b] supported those criminals, just have your sister pick up an Osama Bin Laden t-shirt the next time she visits the West Bank!

If these terrorists didn't have the full support of the Islamic 'street' they would simply cease to exist! In the West they would be held in the same esteem that we hold Tim McVeigh, which is no esteem at all!

You see the boy standing there defiantly in the 5th picture down in Instant_Karma's post? Why would any parent let their son stand in harm's way in such a manner?

The answer is simple, in addition to 'marriage to seventy black-eyed virgins', each Shayid or martyr is also empowered to select seventy friends and family members who may join him in paradise. The parents know that and so it's not beyond belief that they so cavalierly watch over their children's safety!

So what family wouldn't want 70 free E-tickets to Allahland?

BTW, folks, why do you never see Palestinian girls throwing rocks at IDF tanks? You know that if there was a similar situation in the US, there would be tons of American teenage girls throwing rocks at UN tanks!

So why [b]no[/b] Palestinian teenage girls?

'Cause their martyrdom would not be held in such high respect as teenage boys' is.

It seems Allah is not an equal opportunity sort of fellow.

Eric The(NotThatThere'sAnythingWrongWithThat!)Hun[>]:)]

Try reading my ENTIRE post, and NOT just the parts where I refuse to kiss Israel's arse.


I said they are ALL shatbirds.

Do you know what "all" means, Eric?????

[rolleyes]

5subslr5,

Your original statement was quite clear.

You don't like the politics of certain politicians, and you associate it with the fact that they're "Jewish".
You then transfer this obvious predjudice to the nation of Israel.

You actually would ally yourself with the palestinians.  Hamas, Hezbollah, they ARE the palestinians.  You allow yourself to be so blinded by your very clear anti-semitism thatyou would believe the Arafat version of the palestinan celebration of the attacks.

I know many of the anti-semites, here, like to think that anyone who calls someone an anti-semite is "using Nazi tactics", or some nonsense like that.
Well sometimes an anti-semite is just an anti-semite.

Anyone who hates jews so much, that the would ally themselves with terrorists and the enemies of America... disgusts me.
Period.

They are experiencing for 53 years what jews experienced for 40 times more: 2000 years. And they still didn't experienced extermination camps on large scale.
You said, reasonably, that before to talk someone should walk in their shoes a little: did you do the same thing thinking for 5 minutes to be a jew in the Europe of 1945?

I don't think that Palestinians should live like animals for other 2000 years like their jewish antagonists. But I think that if they accepted the division of the Palestine protectorate in 1948 without making wars, their children would grow without tanks in their gardens.
Intifada, terror attacks didn't pay any dividend to Palestinan people: isn't the time to change a violent policy for an unprecedented moderate non-violent policy?
Remember that at the beginning of the actual Intifada there was a session of the PA council considering this issue: it was discarded because considered "not honorable".

I don't agree with the current Sharon govt. policy, but from here to say that Israel is not legitimate there is a HUGE difference...

To answer your question:



Tell us about how you think you "understand" Israel.
That will answer your question.

Yes, I understand, but the Israelis IMHO are not even closely related in their actions with the Palestinians.

And if someone fails to appreciate the moral distinction between fighting a war for national survival such as Israel has nobly done, and blowing up discos and Starbuck coffee shops for terror's sake, then that person may have a hard time convincing anyone that his or her moral views on [u]any[/u] subject should not be taken with a grain of salt.

In other words, don't be on the wrong side of history!

We Huns have simply never lived down our  responsibility for the Dark Ages![:D]

Eric The(We'llKnowBetterNextTime!)Hun[>]:)]

Until you spout the party line that....

Israel = always good

and

Palestinian = always bad

"they" will continue to hound you and slander you as an anti-semite. (Of course, "they" will deny they beleive the "always" part, but their posts in THIS forum have NEVER showed anything but hatred for ALL Palestinians as the oppressors of the high and holy Israelis.)

Apparently, they never heard that it takes TWO to tango (or make a war)

Just like the Liberals are trying to slander gun owners as terrorists, they will slander you as an anti-semite. The tactics are exactly the same. They should be ashamed of themselves, but they know no shame, ONLY the desire to "win the argument" so they IMMEDIATELY pull the "anti-semite" card.

You are guilty for simply thinking outside the box.

Yes, Garandman, I understand what 'all' means, but the Israelis IMHO are not even closely related in their actions with the Palestinians.

And if someone fails to appreciate the moral distinction between fighting a war for national survival such as Israel has nobly done, and blowing up discos and Starbuck coffee shops for terror's sake, then that person may have a hard time convincing anyone that his or her moral views on [u]any[/u] subject should not be taken with a grain of salt.

In other words, don't be on the wrong side of history!

We Huns have simply never lived down our  responsibility for the Dark Ages![:D]

Eric The(We'llKnowBetterNextTime!)Hun[>]:)]

garandman, you've admitted that you have a big problem with "the Jew" as you say.  
Your broadbrushing of an entire people is based on your reading of scripture, you have said.

That's pedjudice.
That's predjudice against Jews, for just being Jewish.
That's textbook anti-semitism.
Why can't you see this?
Everyone else can.

You can cry "slander" all you want, but it wouldn't hold up in court.

Well, having served in Vietnam I can assure you that incidents that you describe did happen. The only difference was that the VC/NVA did at times push unwilling, and unarmed civilians, including women and children into the point of 'contact'(Loch Ninh '67'. They most certainly were not throwing stones, or rice, for that matter. I personally know the personal devistation this caused American troops when faced with 'shoot or die' decisions, even though there was battalion of NVA pushing the herd.
   As far as Palestinen mothers pushing kids out of the house, to cover the fighters this is absurd. The kids play this deadly game, and are prepared to die for their own homeland. You cannot cage a human being, and treat him like an animal, and expect to bring out the best in human nature. The United States lack of resolve, political will, and complicity with regard to this matter, is truly tragic. PM Rabin was a true peacemaker, hated by thr right-wing. He was assassinated by a lone right wing Zionist 'nut'...right...if you believe that...  
  General,now President Sharon provocative actions that sparked this last intifata was no accident, nor was it an accident that as military commander, he let Christian Phalangists in to refugee camps for a three day killing spree of 800 men, women, and children...We(Americans) will pay the price for our indifference,ignorance, and lack of political will on this matter...and this problem is not to go away anytime soon. Knowledge is power, not the bullet or bayonet......Gib

Garandman, don't play the card of the victim, because people like you is all but victim.

I ask you, please, to criticize Israel as you criticize your own government.
I love Israel, but I am really critic to it when it makes something wrong. Do the same and nobody will be entitled to call you with whatsoever name... got the point?

Therein lies your error.

The "noble" Isrealis only get to fight a "civilized" because we provide them politically correct means to fight the war - cruise missiles, F-16's, etc.

The Palestinians have only their bodies to fight the war with.

I assure you if we cut off Isreals supply of US made ordnance, their "nobility" will drop markedly.


Or aren't the Palestinians allowed to "fight... a war for national survival" because they don't do it in the PC way????

Dead is dead, no matter the means. And when a person can think their is a difference in "dead," then, to quote you, "that person may have a hard time convincing anyone that his or her moral views on [u]any[/u] subject should not be taken with a grain of salt."

So since the moment Usama bin Laden used "bodies" to hit USA, because he has no F16, no Cruise missiles and so on , to push out the "Infidels" from Saudi Arabia (that after all is his country...), if I allow myself to extend your statement, is he legitimate to do what he did?

Son, IF I criticised Isreal NEAR as stingingly as I did my own gov't, you coudn't stand to read my posts.

My criticism is NOT of Israel - I have said that over and over. They are entitled to fight and kill and vaporize and annihilate ANYONE they wish to. have at it, boys.

I'm just tired of [size=4]  MY GOV'T [/size=4] funding it.

And in supplying isreal the money and munitions to kill Arabs, we, the USA, MY gov't, are ASSURED to continuously raise a new generation of American hating palestinians. And generation after generation of WTC's. MY gov't is doing that. I don't really give a rats bowels as to what Isreal does.

THEREIN lies my criticism.

I've only said this like a dozen times [rolleyes]

No, garandman.
They are not the same.
It's not the weapons who make Israelis who they are.
Nor is it the palestinians lack of weaponry what makes them who they are.

Stop with the moral relativism, it's unbecoming.

The difference is this:

If the Palestinians surrendered, unconditionally, the Israelis would do them no harm.

If the Israelis surrendered, the palestinians would slaughter them, and "push them into the sea".

There is no moral equivalence here.
Something is blinding you from this obvious truth....

hates jews so much
ally with terrorists
ally with the enemies of America
disgusts me period..

All from your head not my post.  As a distorter of the facts perhaps you can join Dan Rather and CBS ??

Private_Murphy, you might want to work a bit on that "disgust/disgusts/disgusting" thingy you so love.

Private _Murphy you don't disgust me, I feel neither sorrow nor gladness for you.
However, your hysterical, inaccurate responses do lead me to believe you are probably a reporter... ..course I may be wrong you're really only an idiot - period.

So.
I'm "hysterical"?
Read your rant, up there.
Rambling and incoherant, now that's hysterical.
You are a touchy little ant-semite, aren't you?

You "don't like the politics of certain politicians".  You identify these as "Jewish Politicians".

Stop crying like a baby AND STAND UP FOR YOUR STATEMENTS.
Don't deny what is plain and obvious to anyone else who would read it.
Your state of denial has changed my feelings from "disgust", to that of pity.

he is free to try whatever he wishes.

And he is RIGHT NOW getting his just desserts - daisy cutters, rock shearing bombs, US Special Forces. Hell, I'm even for tactical nukes.

War is a dirty business. It CANNOT be sanitized. Whether it takes place on US soil, or or in the wasteland called the Middle East.

You don't think the missile attacks near Hamas HQ killed Arab civilians??? Sure they did. Now ask yourself why the Arabs attacks are always charachterized as killing Isreali civilians (yeah, the ones armed by THEIR gov't with M-16's. I always thought that when the gov't gives you an M-16, you ARE a soldier. See Switzerland.)  but the Isreali attacks are always charachterized as killing evil palestinains.

You are buying the media slant. Funny how gun owners can so CLEARLY see the anti-gun slant by the media liars, but then think they are getting the straight story on any other issue. Its GOT to be deliberate blindness.

Israelis target militants and combatants, and civilians die by accident.

Palestinians target civilians.

The difference is the difference between manslaughter and first degree murder.
Intent and premeditation.

Shoot -

I woulda thought that the WTC would elevate Americans in your mind.

Since 9/11, NOW Americans know what the downtrodden Isrealis have experinced for the last 2,000 years.

[rolleyes]

So, an Isreali armed with a gov't issue M-16 is NOT a combatant???



BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA


What a dufus.

Post from Garandman -

Sorry, garandman, but the Israelis were fighting noble wars when all they had for weapons were the cast offs from WWII.

And they were fighting against an enemy that was supplied by the Soviet Union, [b]remember![/b] You know, the 'Evil Empire.'

Good God, boy, you do pick the strangest lines of argument to try to make a point.

Why? They were fighting [b]nobly[/b] when military aid to Israel was not even a budgeted item in the United States!

[b]'Those who remember history are condemned to remind those who don't.'[/b]

That's a new Hunnism! It's a play on George Santayana's quote, obviously!

Eric The(ButIt'sSoApropos)Hun[>]:)]

My take on the “They don’t have tanks or helicopters” issue:

Most of the Hamas leaders are acting as agents for Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. Many are citizens of those nations and trained by their military. Hamas and Fata are just front organizations for those nations, used to conduct surrogate warfare in the place of those nations.

They do in fact, have tanks and aircraft. The have in fact publicly stated that they would run the Israelis into the sea. To portray the Palestinians as a helpless poor people being oppressed by the Israelis is disinformation bordering on propaganda.

Oh well – Some people just won’t see. Fortunately the Israelis don’t need me to defend them. I just hope we have the national will not to intervene (when the Israelis finally do to the Arabs, what the Arabs have been trying to do to them.)  

I was talking about the tactics used by the suicide bombers.
You knew that.
The "intifada" is a different issue.
If you throw rocks at at a man with a gun, hoping to get shot, you have no right to complain when your wishes come true.
That's the intifada, though.

Your insults only point out the weakness of your argument.
I hope that during this Christmas season, you can find it in your heart to not be so hateful.
Jesus would look more kindly upon thee.

----------------------------------------------
/As far as Palestinen mothers pushing kids out of the house, to cover the fighters this is absurd. The kids play this deadly game, and are prepared to die for their own homeland. You cannot cage a human being, and treat him like an animal, and expect to bring out the best in human nature. The United States lack of resolve, political will, and complicity with regard to this matter, is truly tragic. PM Rabin was a true peacemaker, hated by thr right-wing. He was assassinated by a lone right wing Zionist 'nut'...right...if you believe that...
General,now President Sharon provocative actions that sparked this last intifata was no accident, nor was it an accident that as military commander, he let Christian Phalangists in to refugee camps for a three day killing spree of 800 men, women, and children...We(Americans) will pay the price for our indifference,ignorance, and lack of political will on this matter...and this problem is not to go away anytime soon. Knowledge is power, not the bullet or bayonet......Gib/
----------------



You are 100% right on that on Gib.  

on = one.

Cant spell after I have had to much sugar.

Here is an interesting point.

Ever asked yourself WHY the Arabs don't use those tanks and planes, and run the Isrealis into the sea??

So Arabs HAVE the means to use tanks and planes but DON'T. Isreali freely DOES use their tanks and planes. Kinda redefines "nobility" don't it??? [}:D]


Why do they rely on individual suiceide bombers to do their dirty work??

or perhaps teh suicide bombers ahve LITTLE to do with official Arab gov'ts policies??

I have no answers, but I seems to me these questions should be DEIFNITIVELY (no speculation) answered BEFORE we allow this scenario: