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Posted: 12/14/2001 12:05:05 PM EDT
I thought that would get your attention! You will not believe what a couple of dirtbags tried in my shop just now. They asked if I had any guns on consignment. I told them I had a few and they asked to see them. They wanted a couple of rifles I had and we made a deal. When they paid up and I handed the guy who paid me a form 4473. He said this to me. I don't have to do a yellow sheet on a used gun. I politely informed him he was mistaken. He then said he would pay me an extra $50.00 if I would sell them to him with no paperwork. I laughed and handed him his money back. I am wondering how often Guys try to pull that kind of Bullshit on dealers. This is the first time anybody tried it on me. Please post some feedback and let me know what you think.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:09:13 PM EDT
BATF narc. Good call, SSppy.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:10:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: BATF narc. Good call, SSppy.
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for once, we agree!
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:14:28 PM EDT
Did their van say "Flowers By Irene" or "Big Al's Trucking Firm" on the side?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:17:56 PM EDT
Damn right it ws the ATF,I bet it's a slow week. If I had a FFL I would keep an eye out for more crap like that you are not the only dealer they pulled that with. It's the same thing as when they send a high school kid in to buy a pack of smokes and sit out side to the story and see if the guys dose it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:19:01 PM EDT
I would say it was a setup as well Better to lose the sale than to lose the sale and wind up in the license plate making business...
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:27:54 PM EDT
I had this happen twice to me when i was working retail in a gunshop. The second time the guy stuffed a $100 dollar bill in my shirt pocket. I thought about keeping it and kicking him out for a second but handed it back and asked him to leave before i retrieved one of the cops that were shooting on the indoor range 20 feet away.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:28:03 PM EDT
When any other agency does that, it's called "entrapment" When they do it, it's called "SOP"
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 12:32:32 PM EDT by SPORTSMANSSUPPLY]
I don't know who this pair was but they won't be pulling that crap on me again. I guess they thought I would risk my business and reputation for $50.00 bucks. I don't think they were the Feds but I would not care to make a bet with anyone about it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:42:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANSSUPPLY: ... They asked if I had any guns on consignment
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... That would be your first clue that something was stinky
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:44:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANSSUPPLY: I don't think they were the Feds ...
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What makes you say that????
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:46:27 PM EDT
You probably saved the store from being burned down.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:53:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANSSUPPLY: I don't think they were the Feds but I would not care to make a bet with anyone about it.
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feds or crooks. hard to tell the diff sometimes.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:56:49 PM EDT
If there's a next time: Tell 'em you need to contact the consignee to see if they'll accept the offer, then call BATF and have 'em show up while you stretch out the deal timewise. Bingo. Two less flunkies in our ranks. [-!-!-] [:D]
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:57:22 PM EDT
I don't know, but it seems that whenever someone mentions a potential blatant rule violation of firearms law that a member is presented with, everyone seems to think that it's a BATF 'narc'. Personally, I think that the majority of these "tests" are from shifty types who just want to try to get away with something... The example above is so blatant, it's unintelligent! No storefront FFL (in their right mind) would gamble their business on a $50 bribe(especially with the hoops that FFL's need to go through)- it's too simple to turn down the transaction, and the ATF knows that. If I were trying to "test" someone on laws, etc, I wouldn't test with a statement like "I don't need to fill out paperwork on a used gun." (Then again, I'm not in the ATF-maybe it's worked for them in the past!!!) As long as you're on the up-and-up, this scenario will never be a problem... Scumbag, yes. ATF, probably no.[peep] Let the flames begin.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 12:57:30 PM EDT
If I an not mistaken the Federal Government has dental insurance. The one had the worst set of teeth I have ever saw. Looked like those fake Bubba teeth. The other one had several cheap tattos and both of them needed a bath in the worst way. If they were under cover they were pretty damn good at it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:04:03 PM EDT
Thats what undercover is all about. They invented Bubba teeth.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:10:21 PM EDT
i know you guys don't like em. but there are SUPPOSED to be good at it. when my friend and i are doing our covert missions (i mean playing paintball) we "go dirtbag". dressing like crap and not combing our hair. for the shitty minivan we drive we hack off the hubcabs and get it really muddy. it sounds bad but it really works. people never give us a second look. (the first one is usually bad enough). it's great. we can look normal too. OffRoad
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:10:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: BATF narc. Good call, SSppy.
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BINGO!!! Classic ATF entrapment technique.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:28:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lurker: feds or crooks. hard to tell the diff sometimes.
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Sad, isn't it. Perhaps these guys were not narcs based on their physical description. However, cops have tried to pull some pretty f'd up stuff here in IL. In Illinois, you must have an FOID card (firearm owner ID) to buy a gun or ammo. A nice trick that cops like to pull at gun shows is to throw $10 on a dealer's table and grab a box of ammo. Then they just run away. Later, they come back and bust the "seller" for not checking for a FOID. Bullshit, isn't it? I wouldn't put any of this beyond the so-called "law enforcement" in this country. Instead of busting real criminals, the legislature invents new crimes and hoops for law-abiding citizens and business owners tho jump through. Then the executive instructs the police to bust us on some bullshit technicalities. Or, in other cases, they send the cops to entrap people. When will we say "enough is enough"?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:29:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:47:45 PM EDT
It could easily be some crook the ATF caught and has promised to reduce their sentence if they can turn someone in for violating the law. Then if it goes sour the ATF just denies everything. Who's the media going to belive the ATF or a crook?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:57:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By soylentgreen:
Originally Posted By lurker: feds or crooks. hard to tell the diff sometimes.
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Sad, isn't it. Perhaps these guys were not narcs based on their physical description. However, cops have tried to pull some pretty f'd up stuff here in IL. In Illinois, you must have an FOID card (firearm owner ID) to buy a gun or ammo. A nice trick that cops like to pull at gun shows is to throw $10 on a dealer's table and grab a box of ammo. Then they just run away. Later, they come back and bust the "seller" for not checking for a FOID. Bullshit, isn't it? I wouldn't put any of this beyond the so-called "law enforcement" in this country. Instead of busting real criminals, the legislature invents new crimes and hoops for law-abiding citizens and business owners tho jump through. Then the executive instructs the police to bust us on some bullshit technicalities. Or, in other cases, they send the cops to entrap people. When will we say "enough is enough"?
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I agree whole-heartedly. I interned as a community service officer when I was 19. Part of my job was to go into bars, stores, mini-marts, any place that sold liquor and try and buy booze. If I succeeded in buying, the "real" cops would swoop in and arrest the clerk and/or owner. At the time, I thought I was making a difference, but now I think it sucks that we arrested honest hard working people just because some of them forgot to ask for ID.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:57:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 1:55:36 PM EDT by SPORTSMANSSUPPLY]
Originally posted by SWIRE It could easily be some crook the ATF caught and has promised to reduce their sentence if they can turn someone in for violating the law. Then if it goes sour the ATF just denies everything. Who's the media going to belive the ATF or a crook? I think you just hit the nail on the head. Thats exactly what my partner thought when he came by and I told him about it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 2:10:48 PM EDT
ATF is thick as theives around here right now. Story I just heard concerning a local gun shop was that they took one of his regular customers, scared the hell out of him with prison threats and fines, wired him and sent him in to get the FFL to start talking. Another argument for never ever selling any of your guns.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 2:17:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 2:17:53 PM EDT by Mordwyn]
If not undercover BATF they very well could have been 2 dirtbags that had "caught a case" from the BATF are trying to cut a deal with them for lesser charges. They just need a some poor yutz to give up to the Federales "bubba? ifn y'all cut me a break on this other suf we got goin on har, I happen t'know of a good ol boy down at "Sportsmans Supply" that ifin I ax him he'll sell me some firepower witout nona that there paperwork." All y'all gots to do is cut me some slack on that other stuff an he's your's." (just like SWIRE said if I had bothered to read the posts more closely) [>:/][%|]
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 2:46:13 PM EDT
I vote for Okies or Arkies. I'm from Oklahoma, while I've never even SEEN a fed, I've seen plenty how dumb most folk are 'roun here.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:57:38 PM EDT
ErickM, I'm from Oklahoma, too. You say you've never seen a Fed. That sounds to me like YOU are a Fed just trying to cover your trail. [;)] [;)] [:E]
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 4:05:28 PM EDT
I LOVE GUNS! Call me what you may. We'll see who the last man standing is smarty pants. [50]Whoo woo! Is this thing dedicated to me?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:24:36 PM EDT
The example above is so blatant, it's unintelligent!
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.....Which means it HAD to have been the Feds!
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 3:09:51 AM EDT
Our Taxes dollars at work...He!..He!..He! Entrapment is illegal isn't it?
Link Posted: 2/17/2002 8:13:18 AM EDT
Who is Dp?
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