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Posted: 12/13/2001 4:01:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Its amazing isnt it?..here we are besieged with terrorists from within and without...gangs run the urban areas and harrass citizens in even some small towns and rural areas..vilolent crime is rampant..and yet the elite want to disarm the honest tax payers..relieving them of the right to self protection..and instead of considering honest gun owning citizens (many of them decorated combat vets) their allies in the war on crime and terror ..instead consider them THE PROBLEM...since they cant or are unwilling to go after gang members and can easily go after private citizens they chose the latter... However..if the guy is dealing drugs...I say burn him to the ground and take his weapon stash..these are the narco-terrorists..who steal souls from kids...
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Posted: 12/13/2001 4:20:18 AM EDT
[#2]
It probably is a good bet that the guy is doing something illegal so I'm all for him getting his. But, if some wacko just said a name he knew, this guy is getting screwed. Its just that the news people talk about it like this guy is our worst enemy. I know it isn't illegal to have handguns and rifles in Md, or ammo (not sure if there is a limit) So why is it important to say what he has.
Why not say, a Md man is being detained on possible drug activities. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 4:37:43 AM EDT
[#3]
That ain't no arsenal. The only impressive thing is the sheer quantity of ammo. Another witch hunt underway by our "friends" in the media.
7, why do you think he's doing something illegal? By what I've seen so far, you or I or 90 percent of this board would be just as "illegal." |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 4:50:12 AM EDT
[#4]
He is innocent until someone proves that he is doing something illegal. But, most of the time when someone gets fingered, they are doing something illegal. Anyone from MD know how many rounds you can store? It might be different from county to county. I'll have to check the news sites and see if there is any more news.
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Posted: 12/13/2001 5:18:20 AM EDT
[#5]
What about the first guy? was he a drug dealer? Also was the second guy a prior criminal or just some poor gun guy the dealer hoped would get him less time
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Posted: 12/13/2001 5:26:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Its amazing isnt it?..here we are besieged with terrorists from within and without...gangs run the urban areas and harrass citizens in even some small towns and rural areas..vilolent crime is rampant..and yet the elite want to disarm the honest tax payers..relieving them of the right to self protection..and instead of considering honest gun owning citizens (many of them decorated combat vets) their allies in the war on crime and terror ..instead consider them THE PROBLEM...since they cant or are unwilling to go after gang members and can easily go after private citizens they chose the latter... However..if the guy is dealing drugs...I say burn him to the ground and take his weapon stash..these are the narco-terrorists..who steal souls from kids... exactly. just wait until a neighbor decides you're acting suspiciously because they saw you loading up to go hunting...[rolleyes] i can see it now: "local officials believe walt was acting suspiciously, after a concerned neighbor phoned in that he had a scary looking black gun (Rem 700) and at least 10 rounds of "deer-killer" ammo. SWAT along with the FB1, raided his suburban home and found 10 more rounds and a questionable carbine which has been confiscated pending a legal review." God help us all... |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 6:39:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Given the level of competence in the media, I would not be surprised if the "armor piercing ammo" was nothing more then full metal jacket rounds or rifle ammunition which CAN penetrate some levels of body armor. But Armor piercing? Doubt it. Even then - who cares if it is? The media needs to stop F#####G sensationalizing every mother F######### thing they say......Yellow Journalism needs to GO!
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Posted: 12/13/2001 6:49:11 AM EDT
[#8]
It will be in my lifetime that the NRA will be declared a terrorist organization and all gun owners will be terrorists. My local library already has a filter to prevent signing on to the NRA website, but the HCI(or who ever they has not been banned).
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Anyone from MD know how many rounds you can store? There is no limit on ammo, nor any type of ammo restrictions. All ammo must be stored a "safe distance" from the corresponding firearm. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:05:34 PM EDT
[#10]
11 handguns with over half loaded (they emphisized half) with armor piercing bullets. 8 rifles and 500,000 rounds of ammo. Arsenal hell... We call that a decent beginning to what could become a nice collection! |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:08:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: 11 handguns with over half loaded (they emphisized half) with armor piercing bullets. 8 rifles and 500,000 rounds of ammo. Arsenal hell... We call that a decent beginning to what could become a nice collection! Hehe, not in MD. Glendenning will probably sign a bill into law limiting the number of handguns one can own because of this. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:22:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Not sure what they are talking about with the AP handgun ammo. Magsafe "Agent" load is the most common AP handgun round. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:36:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Okay, this is a stupid question but what is what are black talon rounds? I've also heard of black rhino rounds, what are they? please exuse my ignorance.
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:51:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Okay, this is a stupid question but what is what are black talon rounds? I've also heard of black rhino rounds, what are they? please exuse my ignorance. black talon is a hollow point round desgined by winchester it was banned becouse of its "EVIL" name it would still be around if it was called something like peace keeper or something |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 12:57:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Okay, this is a stupid question but what is what are black talon rounds? I've also heard of black rhino rounds, what are they? please exuse my ignorance. black talon is a hollow point round desgined by winchester it was banned becouse of its "EVIL" name it would still be around if it was called something like peace keeper or something The Black Talon was never banned. It was voluntarily discontinued by Winchester and re-issued under the name "Ranger SXT." FWIW Black Talons were univerdsally derided for shiity terminal performance. The only people who seemed to think they were the shiznit were trauma docs who probably couldn't tell a black talon from a wadcutter. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 1:50:56 PM EDT
[#16]
I couldn't even imagine having 500,000 rounds of ammo in my home... Does he put a mattress on top of the cases instead of a bed?
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:06:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Half a million rounds? That's assuming it wasn't misreported by adding a couple of zeroes. Unless I'm mistaken, even half a million rounds of .22 LR would cost a small fortune.
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:11:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Its amazing isnt it?..here we are besieged with terrorists from within and without...gangs run the urban areas and harrass citizens in even some small towns and rural areas..vilolent crime is rampant..and yet the elite want to disarm the honest tax payers..relieving them of the right to self protection..and instead of considering honest gun owning citizens (many of them decorated combat vets) their allies in the war on crime and terror ..instead consider them THE PROBLEM...since they cant or are unwilling to go after gang members and can easily go after private citizens they chose the latter... However..if the guy is dealing drugs...I say burn him to the ground and take his weapon stash..these are the narco-terrorists..who steal souls from kids... Agreed. The truth of the matter is that as far as I can tell, this gentleman did nothing illegal with the guns in question. But, as someone said, if he has an aquantance who is a drug dealer, chances are he's done something illegal somewhere. Want to know why the Law goes after us? Because we are easy targets. Gang bangers might shoot back! To all the cops out there, if you are afraid to get shot in the performance of your duty, then maybe you are in the wrong line of business. You are charged with enforcing the law and protecting the public. Based on the sad state of our inner cities (and elsewhere) it looks like the job isn't getting done. Nothing personal, I'm venting. I've often thought about forming a group of citizens to patrol the streets with ARs, baseball bats, whatever to curb the criminals out there. Of course, I realize that if we try to take our neighborhoods back, we'll quickly be labeld as "the problem". The cops would come and arrest us all! To the judges...put criminals in JAIL! |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:22:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Okay, this is a stupid question but what is what are black talon rounds? I've also heard of black rhino rounds, what are they? please exuse my ignorance. They are specially made hollow points that fold back into "petals," each of which comes to a sharp point, which cuts organs, rather than sliding by. Most organs are slippery and rubbery and move aside somewhat rather than being cut open and allowing the resulting bleeding. The brain and liver are the only organs that do not do this, I think. The BT's have sharp "talons" that cut rather than sliding by. The furor arose over the American Medical Association's assertion that surgeons, while trying to save the lives of POS's shot by LEO's, were in danger of cutting their fingers through their gloves, allowing the blood of AIDS-infested POS's into their system. This would seem reasonable while probing the guts trying to remove the slug. Fearing a ban, Winchester stopped selling them to mere mortals, and began to only sell them to LEO's, whose lives are more valuable. Finally, in 1999, they stopped producing them altogether. I would respectfully disagree with Maynard's statement regarding "shiity terminal performance." They work, and work well, within the limits of overall anemic performance by most handgun calibers. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:33:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: That ain't no arsenal. The only impressive thing is the sheer quantity of ammo. Another witch hunt underway by our "friends" in the media. 7, why do you think he's doing something illegal? By what I've seen so far, you or I or 90 percent of this board would be just as "illegal." Isn't there a limit on the amount of ammunition a civilian my have in their possession at any one time? I was pretty sure there was??? But they say the brain is the first to go.... |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:34:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Back to the original topic, did the Md. cops find any confirmation of the druggie's allegations when they searched the guy's house? If not, I would say the man was not breaking the law by possessing the weapons or the ammo. Kinda stupid to leave that many laying around loaded though, unless he was keeping them in different areas of the house to guarantee access to one if needed. Much easier (and safer) just to keep ONE with you in case you have to fight your way to the shotgun.
If they found drugs or worse in the raid, then the twerp is getting what he was going to get eventually anyway. |
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Posted: 12/13/2001 2:39:30 PM EDT
[#22]
gus, no idea. I haven't heard anything since this morning. Nothing on the radio and nothing on the evening news.
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Posted: 12/13/2001 3:49:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: They are specially made hollow points that fold back into "petals," each of which comes to a sharp point, which cuts organs, rather than sliding by. Most organs are slippery and rubbery and move aside somewhat rather than being cut open and allowing the resulting bleeding. The brain and liver are the only organs that do not do this, I think. The BT's have sharp "talons" that cut rather than sliding by. The furor arose over the American Medical Association's assertion that surgeons, while trying to save the lives of POS's shot by LEO's, were in danger of cutting their fingers through their gloves, allowing the blood of AIDS-infested POS's into their system. This would seem reasonable while probing the guts trying to remove the slug. Fearing a ban, Winchester stopped selling them to mere mortals, and began to only sell them to LEO's, [red]whose lives are more valuable.[/red] Finally, in 1999, they stopped producing them altogether. I would respectfully disagree with Maynard's statement regarding "shiity terminal performance." They work, and work well, within the limits of overall anemic performance by most handgun calibers. Thanks for keeping the spelling error intact. Nice touch. [;)] I would agree with the last statment regarding handgun ammo anemia, even the vaunted 44 mag is limited to around 1100 ft-lbs maximum muzzle energy. I would also offer that based on figures I can recollect that over 50% of hollow points fail to expand. These figures tend to be even higher in colder areas during winter due to heavy clothing clogging the cavity. This would reportedly render most hollow points as effective as FMJ half the time. The cutting effect would be negated about half the time if the numbers I have seen are correct. Federal's expanding full metal jacket (EFMJ) looks very promising for defensive ammo. |
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Posted: 12/14/2001 6:36:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Here's some more info I've obtained via email:
i was surprised when lucille bower, a spokesman for the montgomery county police, called me early this morning to discuss the seizure. here are some details: - there is confusion on whether the rounds of ammo were 50,000 or 500,000. - county police are apparently being treated as children by batf, with details being doled out as befits batf's purposes. that didn't prevent them from helping batf. - the subject is not charged with a crime by county police. - she thought the subject was facing weapon and drug charges in nashville. when i mentioned that the washington post reported only that he was charged with 'possession with intent to distribute marijuana', she said she wasn't sure. - they have no intent to protect their citizens from batf tyranny, regardless of the facts; they are rolling over and playing dead while batf runs the show. - she was friendly and did not rush me as i asked questions and gave my opinion. at one point i asked if she thought that anybody charged with a similar 'crime' in one state should have his property taken away in another while he's stuck in jail. she said that she didn't see any reason that a person needed an assault rifle. she got an earful from me on that one. i used the classic refutation: "i don't see why anybody needs beanie babies, but i don't think we should take them away," followed by the claim that the supreme law of the land encourages us to be armed and prepared to fight tyranny, whether in the form of traditional private crime or by government. - she gave a semi-chuckle when i suggested that perhaps this was a citizen who could use county police protection from batf. - she said that though she was unaware of the crime for which the guns were siezed, batf does not take such action lightly. i told her very briefly that the truth was quite to the contrary, and gave a couple of examples. the truth on batf, i'm sure, is not comfortable for a government type to even consider. it's hard enough for regular people to accept. - it was obvious from the start that she is used to most people being quite impressed by a long list of firearms as if that means something. however, after she read the list, i simply asked what the crime was. she was slightly disturbed by that, and had no answer. - when asked if county police were going to look into this further and release a statement, she said that it was likely to involve federal charges, and therefore they would basically drop it from their area of concern. i did not tell her that such a situation is exactly what the framers were trying to prevent. federal police, in any form, are a disaster, especially when the locals just lick boots. i encourage everybody on this list to consider that most of us are on the fringe of being treated in exactly the same manner by federal thugs should circumstances blow in that direction, with no help from local LE. marijuana or not, if we sit by and let this man and his property be treated like dirt w/o finding out more and attempting to intervene should the facts warrant, we are full of it, 'cold dead hands' blather notwithstanding. this, apparently, is a maryland citizen who lives in the same county as many trt-md members, and who might need help from us in the form of going to LE, asking questions, and holding them to account -- even filing suit if necessary. what are we prepared to do? |
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Posted: 12/14/2001 6:39:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Isn't there a limit on the amount of ammunition a civilian my have in their possession at any one time? I was pretty sure there was??? But they say the brain is the first to go.... [size=4]BAA BAA BAA[/size=4] Thinking like that is why they get away with it. |
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