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Posted: 12/12/2001 12:13:52 PM EDT
I'm posting this here because the system won't let me reply to my own thread. [:/] Anyway, here it is: [i]Ophisaurus apodus[/i], one of several species of legless lizards. [img]http://www.lhs.berkeley.edu/Biolab/images/leglesslizard.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:23:37 PM EDT
I just replied with a web page showing a few species of it in the thread you started. -Matt
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:27:06 PM EDT
No! It cant be Real! I dont see it! It cant be Real....
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:38:10 PM EDT
Looks like a snake to me. What charachteristics classify it as a lizard?? What lizard is it a transition FROM? What snake is it a transition "TO?" Snakes and lizards are both reptiles? No? A mulatto child is not evidence of evolution - its evidence of crossbreeidng between ethnicities. Is this a cross breed?? Where's the scientific analysis of what this is, and where it came from? If I showed you a picture of my mint 1963 Stingray Corvette, would you write me a check for $35,000, and mail it to me????
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:43:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: What snake is it a transition "TO?"
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Nonsensical question. How the hell would ANYONE (except God, perhaps) know what a species was transitioning TO??? Species don't "decide" to transition from a lizard to a snake...that isn't the way it works. What happens is, a new ecological niche opens up, and individuals which have certain genetic characteristics thrive in this niche. Those genetic characteristics become more and more prominent as those that have them become more and more genetically successful (ie have the most offspring) and eventually they form a new species with which the original can't breed. Then, down the road, yet ANOTHER ecological niche opens up for THAT species, and on and on. You've been told this before, of course, yet still you would ask such a nonsensical question... One would almost think you don't really CARE about scientific facts... [:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:50:06 PM EDT
[url]http://kaweahoaks.com/html/lizard_legless.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:56:55 PM EDT
What snake is it a transition "TO?"
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What an ignorant question! I'll take this as PROOF that you have no frik'n notion in your head as to what evolution actually does. My God man! You said you went to Christian school as a boy. Well I've got to tell you, it failed to teach you anything about evolution, even in an attempt to debunk it! I'll admit that you [i]occasionally[/i] accurately regurgitate Protestant dogma, but you really should leave the technical stuff to those who have a better grasp of what science is. Now remember, I'll discuss philosophy and religion with you all day long. I love doing it. But man, oh man, you really need to sit in a library and read up on science before you jump in the mix again. I'd love to have a conversation (not arguement) with you about the necessity of a higher being in relation to the human psyche though. I think it would teach us both a thing or two. But we'll leave that to another day.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:58:18 PM EDT
I forgot to include one last word. [size=6]Ambulocetus[/size=6]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:08:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Looks like a snake to me.
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what? and THAT makes it a snake? YOU don't think it is, so it isn't?
What charachteristics classify it as a lizard??
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probably mostly some highly technical, hair-splitting definitions, but also likely unarguably within the realm of herpetologists still a freakin' LIZARD.
Snakes and lizards are both reptiles? No?
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yeah, and humans and cows are both mammals. what's your point? that being in the same Class or Order means they're the same species? hardly.
A mulatto child is not evidence of evolution - its evidence of crossbreeidng between ethnicities. Is this a cross breed??
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my guess is no. crossbreeds don't have scientific names as only species have scientific names and crossbreeds (or hybrids as they're called) are not considered species.
Where's the scientific analysis of what this is, and where it came from?
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no offense man, but would you understand it if it was presented to you. definitely not meant as a flame, but it appears to me that your understand of the science of the natural world falls short of being able to understand some of the finer points of taxonomy. i could be totally wrong on this and you could be a foremost taxonomist. but your posts tell me otherwise.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:09:10 PM EDT
You are missing the point of my question "What snake is it a transition "TO?" In order to present a complete evidentiary picture of "adaptation via natural selction," you would have to have three things: 1. The original lizard species 2. The "destination" snake species. 3. This mutant somewhere in teh middle. YOu MUST have all three. The assertion that evolution is ongoing today would dictate logically that ALL THREE of these variants would exist SOMEWHERE in the universe today for SOME species SOMEHWERE. You need a destination critter, and origin critter, and a mutant, to show "adaptation via natural selection." That does not exist. If you would hop off your "garandman is an idiot" high horses for a minute and think about this, you'll see my question. On the other hand, if you really don't want to see my question, please feel free to continue on your "garandman is an idiot" motif. I really couldn't care less what you think of me personally. It is irrelevant.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:10:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Looks like a snake to me. What charachteristics classify it as a lizard??
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It has ears and undeveloped legs.
What lizard is it a transition FROM?
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A reptile one.
What snake is it a transition "TO?"
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A scaley one.
Snakes and lizards are both reptiles? No?
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Yes. But snakes are higher evolved than lizards as there are both viviparous and ovaviviparous snakes where all lizards are ovaviviparous. Just like whales who have modified appendages for aquatic life but werre at one time, terristrial animals.
A mulatto child is not evidence of evolution - its evidence of crossbreeidng between ethnicities. Is this a cross breed??
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Its no crossbreed. I've seen these in nature, also known as a glass snake as the tail can break off and the lizard will survive. No snake can do that.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:13:25 PM EDT
garandman Feelling a bit thick today are we? This is an easy one. Legs don't mean shit in the land of Snakes /lizards. Some larger Boas/anacondas have small leglike spurs on the back. Lizards have evelids that blink, ears, and a tail that falls off when threatened, snakes have none of the above. Charlie
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:14:58 PM EDT
I don't know that much about snakes or lizards. If that thing crawled in your sleeping bag what the hell would you call it?
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:22:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANSSUPPLY: I don't know that much about snakes or lizards. If that thing crawled in your sleeping bag what the hell would you call it?
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I think in the old West, they would call it "soup." Or at least target practice. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:26:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:31:48 PM EDT
Originally posted by SPORTSMANSSUPPLY: I don't know that much about snakes or lizards. If that thing crawled in your sleeping bag what the hell would you call it?
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First, I'd call it "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!" Then, my Kimber would call it "BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!" Then, I'd call Sportsman's Supply and order a new sleeping bag because my old one was full of holes and snizzard guts.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:32:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The assertion that evolution is ongoing today would dictate logically that ALL THREE of these variants would exist SOMEWHERE in the universe today for SOME species SOMEHWERE. You need a destination critter, and origin critter, and a mutant, to show "adaptation via natural selection."
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wrong...again. all three of these variants would have to exist [b]AT SOME POINT IN EARTH'S HISTORY[/B] but not today. you seem to be missing the point. and for the record, the transistionary species is not a mutant. it is a species plain and simple, set apart from all other species by certain characteristics. your incessant attachment of positives and negatives to things in science just underscores your lack of comprhension. a mutation in science is nothing but a change. it can be as simple as a simple change in one single nucleotide. it can be an entire gene sequence. it can even be an eye on the back of a fly (i think they've done that). there is no good or bad to a mutation. only mis- or uneducated humans apply good or bad to things in science.
If you would hop off your "garandman is an idiot" high horses for a minute and think about this, you'll see my question.
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i'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you consistently show your complete lack of understand on the topic at hand. and sometimes it's hard not to jump to the conclusion that "garandman is an idiot" when you say some of the things you do. though for the record, i would harldy classify you as an idiot. though i would probably add the caveat that you have some idiotic ideas. [:D] just funnin' around.
On the other hand, if you really don't want to see my question, please feel free to continue on your "garandman is an idiot" motif.
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i have repeatedly tried to address your question and you have just as often ignored it. here again, is but ONE answer to your question: [i]Archeoptyrx[/i]
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to put it into words that you might understand. i can't hand you a transistional species. but that most certainly does not mean that none exist. if i asked you to hand over the cross that Jesus was nailed to, could you do it? no. does that mean it never existed? absolutely not.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:38:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2001 1:31:04 PM EDT by Muad_Dib]
My example is with Whales but you'll get the point.
Originally Posted By garandman: 1. The original lizard species 2. The "destination" snake species. 3. This mutant somewhere in teh middle.
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1. artiodactyls 2. Ambulocetus natans 3. Whale
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 1:43:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady: your incessant attachment of positives and negatives to things in science just underscores your lack of comprhension.
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there is no good or bad to a mutation. only mis- or uneducated humans apply good or bad to things in science.
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I feel like giving you a high five after reading this. But I can't so I'll just post this [thinking]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 2:08:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2001 3:53:59 PM EDT by KBaker]
[img]http://www.paleoimages.com/Archaeopteryx.JPG[/img] Archaeopteryx - transitional species between dinosaurs and birds [img]http://numbat.murdoch.edu.au/Anatomy/avian/archaeopteryx.GIF[/img] Species is extinct, dating back to approximately 150 million years ago (Jurassic period). Fossil evidence shows clearly both reptilian and birdlike features such as a long bony tail and teeth (reptilian) and feathers, fused clavicles, and wings (birdlike). Birdlike features [b]not[/b] found in Archaeopteryx include a sternal keel (necessary to attach flight muscles), hollow bones, and a brain large enough to support the coordination necessary for flight. Seven fossils of this type of creature currently exist, including the truly remarkable complete skeleton shown above. There are also at least two other "intermediate" birdlike forms for which fossil evidence have been found, Ichthyornis and Heperornis, but the fossil evidence is not as complete as that one striking Archaeopteryx find. That's one problem with fossil evidence - it's very seldom of a complete creature.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 2:25:47 PM EDT
ORIGINALY POSTED BY GovtThug
First, I'd call it "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!" Then, my Kimber would call it "BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!" Then, I'd call Sportsman's Supply and order a new sleeping bag because my old one was full of holes and snizzard guts.
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Hell if you don't blow your toes off you are a better shot than I am!!
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 2:33:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 3:51:58 PM EDT
Actually, a double tap, followed by two anchor shots.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 6:44:47 PM EDT
Isn't your rime better spent trying to figure out how to be the best person and neighbor possible, rather than argue the chicken and the egg?
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Part of being a good person is responding to a friend's request for "snakezard" pictures. [0:)]
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