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Posted: 12/9/2001 9:40:29 AM EDT
That has got to hurt![;)]
American Taliban Fighter Being Held in Marine Custody By DAVID MARTIN .c The Associated Press SOUTHERN AFGHANISTAN (Dec. 9) - An American captured while fighting with the Taliban was in good condition Sunday at a U.S. Marine Corps base where he was being held as a ``military detainee,'' a Marine spokesman said. John Walker, 20, of Fairfax, Calif., surrendered near the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif, where he was caught in a prison uprising before U.S. authorities flew him to the Marine base in the south known as Camp Rhino. Capt. Stewart Upton, a spokesman at the base, said Walker was classified as a military detainee, giving him the same rights as an enemy prisoner of war under the Geneva Conventions. Upton said Walker was being provided with shelter, food, water and medical treatment, and that the international Red Cross can monitor Walker's treatment. Of Walker's condition, Upton said: ``I know of it as good.'' Walker was being held at an undisclosed location on the base, and journalists were not allowed to meet with him. The Associated Press was allowed to deploy with the troops on the condition that it not reveal troop strengths, mission plans and other secret information. At the U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla., a Pentagon spokesman said it had not yet been decided how Walker's case would be handled. Lawyers for the departments of Defense and Justice are ``working on the way ahead on that,'' Rear Adm. Craig Quigley said. While held and interrogated by U.S. forces, Walker has provided some useful intelligence information, another U.S. official said on condition of anonymity. ``That has been very helpful,'' Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said on ABC News. Pentagon officials said Walker would be handed over to civilian authorities, but the timing of the transfer and exactly where Walker would go were not clear. In San Francisco, James Brosnahan, a lawyer for Walker's parents, declined comment. The Justice Department has said Americans who fought for the Taliban or the al-Qaida terrorism network could face treason, murder, conspiracy or other charges. The issue surfaced after the government said three people claiming to be Americans might have been fighting for the Taliban. The two others were later determined not to be American, though they spoke English. Attorney General John Ashcroft told a Senate committee last week that he would not comment on any legal actions to be taken against Walker. But he warned, ``History has not looked kindly upon those who have forsaken their countries to go and fight against their countries.'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld declined comment last week when asked if he considered Walker a traitor. Walker is the only person - either Afghan or any other nationality - being held by Americans in the Afghan campaign, though rebel forces have custody of some 5,000 to 6,000 militiamen, a senior U.S. defense official. Walker's parents have described him as an introvert and pacifist who converted to Islam when he was 16. He studied in Yemen and Pakistan, but his parents lost contact with him about six months ago. Through their attorney, Frank Lindh and Marilyn Walker said Friday they are ``desperately worried'' about their son. They also said the government had not given them any word about his condition or whereabouts.
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Link Posted: 12/9/2001 9:55:02 AM EDT
I'm so fucking sick of hearing that this fuckers' parents are so worried. You know, I bet Mike Spann's family was pretty damn worried too.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 10:06:44 AM EDT
I'll donate 55 gal of gasoline and a pack of Ohio Blue Tip Matches toward the "Fry His Ass Fund" [pyro]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 10:25:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 10:57:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AnotherPundit: I'm so fucking sick of hearing that this fuckers' parents are so worried. You know, I bet Mike Spann's family was pretty damn worried too.
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Before Spann was CIA he was a Marine, so Walker is now in the custody of Mike Spanns second familiy.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:00:07 AM EDT
No, I think we should be fair to this guy. We all make mistakes. Lets just put him into a general population of a prison for a year or two. I bet Mr. taliban would last about 48 hours before someone shives him.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:56:57 AM EDT
not to openly make myself a target for being flamed here, just listen for sec. this character "john walker", ok...he's a dumbass, plain and simple. i, nor anyone i know would ever think about going to pakistan and joining the taliban...but, lets just look at what he did; and see if there is anything that is actually "illegal" in what he did. DON'T THINK THAT I AM DEFENDING HIM, I AM JUST LOOKING FOR SOME ANSWERS what is he guilty of? treason...? i don't know what the exact definition of treason is, maybe he falls under it; if he does, whatever his punishment is he deserves it. from what we know, he converted to islam at 16 (ok, lots of people convert to diff. religions...maybe a little strange, but nothing wrong here). then he went to pakistan a couple months ago to study arabic (hey, i've been to spain to study spanish...no prob there). ok...here's where it gets murky, in terms of legal"leeze". he joined the taliban as a fighter from what we know, which doesn't sound so bad to me really; kinda screwed up, but if he wants to 'fight for islam' then all the power to him, as long as he's not fighting americans...which in reality, he wasn't...unless something comes up about something he did at that prison riot in mazar-e-sharif. so really..."he went to another country, joined their army and fought for a cause he believed in"....i don't know, point out something i'm not seeing; but please don't flame me!
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 3:41:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2001 3:34:43 PM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By Martsmth: he joined the taliban as a fighter from what we know, which doesn't sound so bad to me really; kinda screwed up, but if he wants to 'fight for islam' then all the power to him, as long as he's not fighting americans...which in reality, he wasn't...unless something comes up about something he did at that prison riot in mazar-e-sharif.
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Um, joining the Taliban isn't so bad??? Okay let's assume that you are right. So he joined before 9/11, well that doesn't explain how or why he remained as a soldier of an army that had executed a devastating attack against American civilians. So yes, he WAS fighting against this country. For the sake of argument, say that during WWII, a US citizen went over to Germany and signed up with the Nazis, well he didn't actually shoot at any US soldiers, just a couple Frenchies and a Brit or two, so that's not treason, right??? It doesn't get more plan to me than that. You fight for an organization that is a war with the US and you are guilty of treason. Let's not mince words and argue that he didn't actually shoot at any Americans, or at least he didn't actually kill anyone. It doesn't matter!
so really..."he went to another country, joined their army and fought for a cause he believed in"....i don't know, point out something i'm not seeing; but please don't flame me!
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I'm trying not to flame you, but you are making it very difficult.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 3:48:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 3:51:41 PM EDT
If nothing else I have been consistent with my recommendation. Killem and bring him to the U.S. for a fair trial. I am puzzled as to why the Marines still have him. Plainly they want this as* out of their camp (Rhino) and into civilian hands. Looks as if the civilians don't want to touch him. ????????????????????????????????????????????? Although he didn't talk to the CIA I understand he's singing like a bird down to the Rhino Camp !
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 3:56:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:00:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2001 3:53:36 PM EDT by No_Expert]
According to my copy of The U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court." So, what he did was treason, the problem is going to be proving it according to law. No_Expert edited for spelling
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:00:45 PM EDT
Martsmith clearly read the newspaper article that I read on Lucianne.com that was spilling this drivel. I will tell you what I posted there. It didn't take long for the Left to come up with an angle to justify this pricks actions.That's all it is propoganda. He is a traitor and must be found guilty, and hanged. If you ask me he is worse then the terrorist.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:02:30 PM EDT
Mark my word - the United States is going to f@ck up the John Walker case. Justice will NOT be done!
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:06:33 PM EDT
Justice will not be done. My bet is this treasonous muther phucker will eventually only be tried for conspiracy.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:07:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:08:42 PM EDT
As much as I want him dead, I actually think a better punishment is that he NEVER be allowed to return to the United States, under penalty of death. I don't view him as a threat to this nation, so although I want him dead, I think it would more painful for him to grow up and live with the mistake he made. Let him live in the mountains and piss in a pot for the rest of his life, he'll realize just what he passed up.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:08:58 PM EDT
Again, why do the Marines still have this clown after at least two and I think maybe three days ? I can only wonder why he hasn't ben turned over to the civilian authorities.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:12:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Again, why do the Marines still have this clown after at least two and I think maybe three days ? I can only wonder why he hasn't ben turned over to the civilian authorities.
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I imagine he has some useful info to share with us, having trained with them, he could provide intimate knowledge than no one else could. I also don't believe he will ever see that full punishment of his crimes. Think of all the liberals that would cry murder if you tried and convicted Walker of treason.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:14:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:23:04 PM EDT
HKocher, this clown "is" talking and we're probably, as you said, getting some useful intelligence. However, I did see a Marine Captain briefly interviewed and he seemed to want the guy gone. I just wonder what the civies are up to - if anything. Mom says he's a shy and sensitive boy. I say he's a treasonous muther phucker.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:23:07 PM EDT
I would also give Walker the very same choice that should be given when Osama Bin Laden faces the same fate - [b]Duroc or Hampshire?[/b] 'I mean, which do you want buried with you?' Eric The(I'mTalking'DecemberPorkBellies'ForYouCity­Slickers!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:26:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garmentless: Mark my word - the United States is going to f@ck up the John Walker case. Justice will NOT be done!
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Unfortunately you're probably right. I see an appearance on Oprah talking about an abusive childhood, then a $1,000,000 book deal. Maybe we can put together an AR15.com field trip to one of his book signings. [}:D]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:31:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2001 4:24:39 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:49:12 PM EDT
He committed treason... Execute his sorry ass.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 5:02:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By No_Expert: According to my copy of The U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court." So, what he did was treason, the problem is going to be proving it according to law. No_Expert edited for spelling
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The question will revolve around videotape. Is it a witness or a confession? He definently "adhered" to our enemies. We need to canvas the American, British, and NA soldiers who fought at the Mazur e Sharif prison camp to find someone who can say he had a gun in his hand there, that would make it "taking up arms" against us as well. Lastly, if you look again at Article III Section 3, it requires a trial- but doesn't say what [b]kind[/b] of trial. There is nothing there that precludes Walker being brought before a military court martial instead of being brought to US Federal Court. What is holding up the show is not "what should we do with him" but "what will the public say about what we do with him".
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 5:23:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 6:25:42 PM EDT
Since he is at a Marine base why not send Drill Sgt. R. Lee Ermey to deal with him? GunLvr
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 6:46:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: No offense to the Marines, but I think any person of ANY branch of service would know how to treat Mr. Walker.
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True, but I believe that Mr. Walker should be preserved, shall we say, and then let loose in NYC after the FDNY, PAPD, NYPD has been notified. It could be a start...[chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:05:19 PM EDT
maybe he will die due to complications from the wounds received in the prison riot? it seems funny to me that the special forces are in a hospital in germany within 12 hours of injury but it takes a week and a half for this wounded piece of shit just to change locations in afganistan! gangreen would be too pleaseant for him to die from. john
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:12:44 PM EDT
He should be tried for treason. He is a POW. The reason he is a POW is because he was fighting for the Taliban,and attended a terrorist training camp. Pretty simple if you ask me. Death by firing squad. [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:15:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:23:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:41:20 PM EDT
Leave him to the justice system of the new Afgan government. He came to their country and made war against them. They should have jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:02:55 PM EDT
Yes we should turn his sorry a** back over to the Afghans for handling, why should we soil our hands with the blood of a traitor - all that we should have to prove is that he understood that the United States had been attacked by a terrorist group, and that group was being given shelter by the government in whose armed forces he was serving! There that's the indictment right there - send him back to the Northern Alliance with a note that we decline to exercise jurisdiction over this soldier of the former nation of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan! Just notify his parents of the need for an address where they would like for his remains to be sent! Remember how Greek mothers would instruct their sons going off to battle - 'Come back with your shield or upon it!' Meaning that if you didn't discharge your duty in fighting for your city-state, and dropped your shield when running from the enemy, then she would rather see you brought home dead, a corpse carried by your friends upon your own shield. Eric The(WellJohnWalkerCameBackWithoutHisShield,Mo­ther)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 12:21:25 AM EDT
well lets look at the facts. first he went to a madrassa in pakistan to learn about islam. madrassa's are very anti-american. then he hooked up with some taliban to join their cause. he went to an al queda terrorist training camp to learn how to fight,then he went to fight with the taliban in the kashmir for sometime, then he joined the taliban in their fight against the united states,then he was captured,then wounded in a prison uprising in which he hid in the basement for several days before giving up. gee if this child was so shy and introverted then what in the world was he doing in a terrorist training camp. i would assume these camps are somewhat like combat training camps so one would have to learn combat skills like hand to hand and proper rifle usage.to be able to shoot and kill someone takes some rational choice makeing, so this guy made a choice to join this organization just as when some of us were 18 or older we made the choice to join the us military,which by law in the united states when one turns 18 thier parents relinquish all accountablity and responsibilty for their children,the law is that if one is 18 they are an adult. he even stated that he supported the attack on america,so what more evidence does one need. unless this guy is some kind of spy,which is most highly unlikely,then he deserves to be tried and hung for treason. he knew that the taliban was at war with the united states, even though he might be a united states citizen he took up arms,was part of an organization that has taken up arms against the united states, he is guilty. although the liberals will plea him away with sob storys of tough childhood, bla bla bla, i think that best justice would be served as shot while trying to escape,hung himself in jail cell,gang green sets in, things have been known to happen, unfortunatly the media sees this as a hot meal ticket so close scrutiny will be an issue. even if he does get away scott free and ends back in the united states he would not be free. if i was in his shoes i would be afraid for my life until i died, for people come up missing every day and never found,or they are found,but not much is left.so this man will see justice some day some how,it might not be until he lives a normal life on earth and passes on because of natural causes, but if he is still islam then he is going to fry in hell for the rest of eternity, for their is only one way to heaven and that is by haveing a relationship with jesus christ,not by what religion you are a part of, i know that there can be a fine line between vengance and justice, lets make sure we are after justice and not vegance.and i am not trying to force christianity on anybody i am just stateing the facts as far as heaven is concered. my 2 cents worth
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 2:30:26 AM EDT
I wonder how that boy resolved being named after one of my favorite varieties of Scotch, the nectar of the "infidels"?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 8:12:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: As much as I want him dead, I actually think a better punishment is that he NEVER be allowed to return to the United States, under penalty of death. I don't view him as a threat to this nation, so although I want him dead, I think it would more painful for him to grow up and live with the mistake he made. Let him live in the mountains and piss in a pot for the rest of his life, he'll realize just what he passed up.
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Nice thought, but his dad'll probably set up a trust fund so he can get stoned every day in Amsterdam. 3-ply manila rope and a stepladder. No need to be fancy.
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