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Posted: 12/2/2001 9:06:39 PM EDT
ok, i just got this itch to buy an old jeep for 4 wheelin. my cherokee is my work vehicle so i cant bang it up too bad (else i cant get to work etc...) anyhow, 1.) what is the difference bewtween a CJ5 and CJ7? 2.) any year to stay away from? 3.) how welll do they hold up, what parts should i look for to go bad when buyin a used one thanks
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 9:22:04 PM EDT
main difference between the cj5 and cj7 is the wheelbase with the cj7 being longer (cant remember by how much)other than that t5hey are almost identical. could be wrong, but check out some four wheel drive sites. they can tell you more than me.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 9:28:37 PM EDT
CJ-7's have an adjustable seat for one, so if your over 5'5", consider the 7. The CJ-7's were a lot nicer, moving towards the sport, instead of utility side of the spectrum. Some CJ-7's came with V8's, so this is always a plus. I'd go look at both, then decide. They both are good 4x's, although I'm not even close to being qualified to tell which one is better.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 9:57:25 PM EDT
1) pretty much what the other guys said 2) all of them 3) all of them
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 10:04:06 PM EDT
early 70's CJ-5's also had V-8's
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 11:09:54 PM EDT
The biggest problem with Jeeps is rust. Especially if original owners take their Jeep to the beach or do a lot of river crossings. The good part is that you can pretty much take a Jeep apart with common hand tools and put it back together again, so replacing rusted out body/floor panels isn't out of the question.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 6:34:48 AM EDT
Either a CJ5 or CJ7 would be great. I would recommend a 78 or 79 with the 258 engine. Stay away from 80 or newer since their engines are choked up with emissions crap that the engine wasn't designed for. Preferences are for a four speed tranny and a Saginaw power steering unit. The AMC 20 axles are problematic but can be upgraded for cheap. Get the Jeep owners Bible.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 6:48:27 AM EDT
the CJ-5's are shorter and narrower than CJ-7's, have low-back seats (whiplash anyone?) and you are lucky if they hold a top and doors. they usually have no tailgate that opens, and seats that do not adjust. they come with the same engine options as the CJ-7, as they were built the same years: 1976-1986 for the 7's, 1976-1983 (also, 1955-1975) for the 5's . the 7's are more road-friendly, and you can find more aftermarket doodad's to help customize them. some early ones also had low-back seats, you want to avoid these, and at least the driver seat moves. they have a swing-away spare tire carrier, and a tailgate that opens - downward like a pick-up in some cases, IIRC. they are also more stable on the trails. if you want a nice to semi-nice thrashing/beater Jeep, i'd suggest the 7's.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 7:29:19 AM EDT
Depends a LOT on the kind of off roading you do. If there is a large margin of on road, or trail riding, stick with the more civilized -7. The -5 is closer to the origional concept of the Jeep, but like the above posts say, they're primitive compared to more recent Jeep incarnations.. If you get a chance, drive a really nicely restored MB/GPW. Yes, they're maintenance hogs, and are a bit fragile, but it'll either sell you on the -5, or make you get a dressed -7 for off roading.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 9:36:15 AM EDT
And if you REALLY wanna stand out in a Jeep crowd, get a Scrambler (I think it's designation is CJ8) It's a longer CJ7, set up more like a pick up truck. If I were going to trade my 92 Wrangler in for something, it would be a Scrambler, A Jeep with more room to hold stuff.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 1:01:04 PM EDT
yeah, i originally wanted a CJ8, BUT cant seem to find one for any reasonable price around here. or, its junked to hell, so, CJ7 it is...
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:10:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkaerE: ok, i just got this itch to buy an old jeep for 4 wheelin. my cherokee is my work vehicle so i cant bang it up too bad (else i cant get to work etc...) anyhow, 1.) what is the difference bewtween a CJ5 and CJ7?
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The 7 is a little longer - sure is nice to have that little bit of room behind the back seat.
2.) any year to stay away from?
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They all are good
3.) how welll do they hold up, what parts should i look for to go bad when buyin a used one
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Check out the dif gear ratio and the tranny gearing. too high and it'll suck in the mountains, too low and you don't want to drive it down the road. Everything on a Jeep is worn out if you use 'em like I do. Everything is fairly easy to replace also.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:23:29 PM EDT
I have this same problem...my used Grand Cherokee is too nice to take in the woods. Neolock, how expensive are all the worn out parts to replace usually? Since it would also eat into the gun budget! :D How much do Jeep cj7's or Wranglers run on the average? And where would I find good information on stuff like this?
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:31:42 PM EDT
Jeeps are awesome vehicles! I used to have one, but had to drive it long distances between home and school, so I sold it for a car, which made more sense at that time. I have had the itch to get a Jeep again, some time in the future. I had an 85 CJ7 with the inline 6 cylinder with a 4 speed. It had plenty of torque, I had 32" tires and could squeal 3rd gear. I loved it. Depending on how big of a person you are, you would probably be ok with a CJ5, but a CJ7 is nicer and bigger (I like their styling better myself). The cool thing about Jeeps is there are a lot of aftermarket parts for them and they are easy to work on. Also, you can drop a Chevy V8 in there with mounting adapters and transmission adapters and you would really have a cost effective drivetrain (Chevy V8's are really easy and cheap to work on compared to todays front wheel drive systems). Just watch out for rust, this is the biggest thing to watch for. As far as drivetrain goes, this is easily fixed/replaced. I put a lot of hard miles on my Jeep and never had a problem. They are fun weekend vehicles and are very "cool", in my opinion. Good luck choosing one!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:12:48 AM EDT
ok, this is the one im lookin at now gonna go check it out tonight 1975 CJ5 new body (a few years ago) some surface rust 33'' tires 3 speed manual 304 AMC V8 has problems getting fuel from the tank to the carb but if you put fuel in the carb it runs fine (maybe clogged lines? rusted tank?) thats all i know so far
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:23:07 AM EDT
are you looking to lift it? get more power, bigger tranny, bigger sneakers(tires) brushguard, winch, you'll kick your own ass the first time you get stuck without a winch. be careful the first time you take it out. i reccomend a gravel pit, test out side slope and axle flex, you'll prolly be surprised, i was. go REALLY slow. put in a roll cage. OffRoad
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:06:43 AM EDT
dont the CJ5's come with a roll bar? seems i remember something like that...how much work to change that into a roll cage? what exactly does the cage attach to? the frame? thanks
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:32:18 AM EDT
Owning a Jeep CJ is a labor of love. If you have neither the motivation/mechanical inclination/tools or deep enough pockets to pay someone else to work on it, you probably shouldn't own one. The newest CJ is already over 15 years old. As has been mentioned, rust is a common problem, but you can buy literally every part for a Jeep. You could even probably build a completely new CJ from aftrmarket parts. But it will be a frustrating experience if you are expecting to get a vehicle with the same reliability as a Toyota Camry. Things do wear out or break on them, moreso if you actually go offroad. I was elk hunting with a friebd who has a CJ-5 and one cold morning we had to tweak the ignition and the carburetor chock to get it to run right. That being said, they are fun vehicles. I people either love 'em or hate 'em. I think they are kind of addictive myself. I still miss my 77 CJ-5. These days, I would go with the CJ-7 over the CJ-5 for the extra room they offer. The longer wheelbase also offers a little bit better ride. Myself, I'm keeping my eye out for a CJ-8 Scrambler now.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:32:49 AM EDT
all Jeeps without a rollbar: MB 1941-1945 CJ2A/M38 1946-1949 CJ3A/M38 1948-1953 CJ3B 1953-1964 M38A1 1951-1971 CJ5 1955-1975 now, Jeep calls them "sport-bars" after the roll-over lawsuits of the late 1970's. the roll-bars of maodels: CJ5 1976-1983 and CJ7 1976-1986 comprise of a bar that goes behind the passenger/driver seats, with diagonal members to the rear. the bases are bolted to the body tub. models of Wrangler YJ 1986 1/2 - 1991 look the same, but added a cross-member on each side, from roll-bar to windshield. Wrangler 1991 - 1995 and Wrangler TJ 1997 to present have extended the rear members upward to create added protection for rear passengers, and kept the windshield cross members as well. an upgrade to a "roll-cage" would involve removal of windshield cross-members and the addition of a rollbar across the length of the windshield, from drivers floor to passenger floor, and then re-installing the cross-members to the new cage. in a CJ, you simply add the front roll-bar, cross members, and you're good to go. BTW, without actually seeing it, i wouldn't pay more than like $500.00 for the one you mentioned above.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:33:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SkaerE: ok, this is the one im lookin at now gonna go check it out tonight 1975 CJ5 new body (a few years ago) some surface rust 33'' tires 3 speed manual 304 AMC V8 has problems getting fuel from the tank to the carb but if you put fuel in the carb it runs fine (maybe clogged lines? rusted tank?) thats all i know so far
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Sounds like a clogged fuel filter or more likely a bum fuel pump.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:35:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 9:31:48 AM EDT by SkaerE]
one more question any experience with the 304 V8?? good/bad etc im gonna go look at it tomarrow, he wants $750 for it said he put a new body on it a few years ago... just read one of your posts, the roll cage is bolted to the body? seems like not nearly as strong as it could be... thanks again
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:40:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty: now, Jeep calls them "sport-bars" after the roll-over lawsuits of the late 1970's......
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Just a note, most of the stories about Jeep CJs rolling over easily are bunk. When 60 Minutes did their notorious "expose" showing CJs to be rollover prone deathtraps, it took them something like 260 tries to get the Jeep to roll, and even then only after they modified it to get the results they wanted. Kind of like NBC saying that 73-87 Chevrolet and GMC pickups were rolling fireballs after they got one to explode by putting rocket igniters in the fuel tank.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:46:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SkaerE: one more question any experience with the 304 V8?? good/bad etc
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The AMC V-8s were good, reliable performers. Decent low RPM, high torque motors. Just what you need for offroading. The only real drawback to them, in my opinion, is that the aftermarket doesn't support them the same way as, say, the small block Chevy. There aren't as many performance pieces available and even OEM parts like exhaust manifolds, accessory brackets, etc can be expensive and difficult to find if you need them. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to run an AMC V-8.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:46:28 AM EDT
304 is a great motor when they are running. As pointed out they are all old by now and they cost a fortune to rebuild. Best solution to motor issue is to install Chevy power. Advance Adapters can make this a snap. M.O.R.E also makes a great set of motor conversion mounts. Again as pointed out earlier a CJ is a labour of love. If you want the most vehicle for the least hassle, get a Wrangler with fuel injection. The Wrangler frame is way stouter than a CJ and the fuel injection makes altitude and angles a non issue. Sure Wranglers have their issues: rear axle and early 5-speeds were weak, but all Jeeps need lots of $$$$ to be great off-roaders. I have so much money into my CJ I can't even think about it. But it goes everywhere and runs all the time. But it took custom Dana 44s, Ford tranny and Chevy fuel-injected power to make it all happen. If you are going to be a CJ owner, be honest with yourself about your mechanical ability, how much real wheelin' you want to do and your love of turning wrenches. Otherwise buy a fuel-injected Wrangler throw a 4" suspension lift on it ($500), get some 33's and go nuts. Of course, you'll probably want gears after you get the tires ($750 or so installed) And as long as you're getting gears you should get lockers ($500 or so a side) and then you'll need....... And that's how people go straight to heck with Jeeps...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:56:40 AM EDT
SkaerE, $750.00 isn't too bad, if its a relatively new body, you gotta ask yourself what he did to rust it out already... and yeah, the roll bar mounts don't seem strong, but believe me, they are! they happen to be mounted just above the frame (on a re-enforced plate), so if a strong downward force were to crush the roll bar, the frame would stop it's downward push after 1/2" of movement. Boomer, yeah, gotta love the media! they didn't stop me from owning 4 Jeeps!!! never came close to actually rolling, and i've tried!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:37:50 PM EDT
My thoughts on the subject? A Wrangler (YJ) would most likely make a more reliable platform. Get a 90-up for fuel injection, put a full-floating kit in the rear axle, get the MIT slipyoke eliminator for the NVG231 transfer case, and the later 5-speeds are strong enough for most uses. A 4" suspension lift and 33" tires will get you just about anywhere, and since the Wrangler's a solid axle/leaf spring rig you can do the work yourself, in the driveway, with only common hand tools (air tools make it a lot easier though.) For severe 4-wheelin' you'll want lockers front and rear, low gears (4.56:1 or lower), and an NVG4500 manual tranny.....maybe even custom Dana 60 axles. Now, what would I do with the Jeep you're going to look at if I wanted to make it a 4-wheelin' rig? First of all I'd lose the 3-speed tranny in favor of a 4- or 5-speed with granny gear. A Borg-Warner T18 4-speed was available in Jeeps, but there were so many input shaft sizes, gear ratios, etc, that it's impossible to remember them unless you're a dedicated Jeeper (I'm not.) A better choice would probably be an SM465 4-speed from a GM truck. These have a 1st gear ratio in the 6.5:1 range, which will just about let you go up a vertical wall. Anyway, suffice it to say that for any real off-roading you NEED a granny gear, and 3-speeds don't have them. Next would be something you normally wouldn't think of - a new wiring harness. Early Jeeps didn't have fuse boxes, and the wiring wasn't really thought out or labelled all that well. Yank it all out and install a kit from Painless Wiring - even if you've NEVER installed a new wiring harness before, their instructions and the kit quality are such that you'll be able to tackle it. Just be sure to follow their instructions to the letter. The next thing I'd probably do would be a transfer case swap, from the 2:1 low range Dana 20 (I believe) to a 2.62:1 low range Dana 300. The CJ5 may have used the Dana 18 T-case, though, which had a 2.46:1 low range but also used an offset rear differential, so if you changed the T-case you'd also have to put in a new rear axle with centered diff. Engine swapping - save this for last, and build up an engine while the 304 is still running. You'll have to THINK about the engine swap from the beginning, because what you want to put in will dictate which tranny(s) you can swap in. My advice is go with either a TBI 350 or fuel-injected 4.0L or 4.2L (the old reliable 258.) The 350 is lighter, makes plenty of power in its stock form, and you can pick up parts for it at every store except your local grocery. An inline-6 is easier to work on because everything's right out there in the open, and the fuel-injected AMC sixes are very powerful with great torque off-idle. It's like several other people have said - Jeeps (and 4x4s in general) are addictive, and you'll never be done spending money on it. If you don't know how to do your own repairs already, learn first! And start buying tools as well, if you don't have any yet - at a minimum you'll need a 3/8" drive ratchet, 3" to 10" extensions, and 6-point sockets (both deep and shallow), box/open-end wrenches from 1/4" up to 3/4" or so, assorted screwdrivers, a 1/2" drive ratchet or breaker bar and wheel bearing socket, and a 12V test light. You could probably get everything you needed at Sears for under $250.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:19:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkaerE: just read one of your posts, the roll cage is bolted to the body? seems like not nearly as strong as it could be... thanks again
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The rear roll (sport) bars tie into the frame, the front bar (at least on my Wrangler) only goes to the windshield. Eventually I'll get the fron bars that also tie into the frame. I must be nuts, first a Jeep, then an AR. I need to find toys I can't build on indefinitely. PS if it's 750 and still running, and you still have a working car to drive until the bugs are worked out, go for it. Anything on a Jeep can be replaced. Usually with common tools.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:03:59 PM EDT
I always liked the looks of the CJ5, but always had trouble dragging dragging my big ol' a$$ over that stupid hump in the doorway, so I always had the 7's. They will go darn near anywhere, once you finally get in it.
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