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Posted: 11/30/2001 9:38:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2001 10:29:34 PM EDT by Turok]
Before some of you start railing on me read the whole thing. Here's the deal. I was returning from a movie and headed back to campus ( I live in a dorm ) and I cornered into the parking lot at around 10-15mph. I have studded snow tires and the car I drive has racing suspension and full time all wheel drive. [b]There was no one else driving in the parking lot[/b], [b]there was no one walking in the parking lot[/b] except for one campus security "officer" ( a student no less ). There was a little bit of stray gravel ( like a few tiny pieces ) and he was well out of the way ( between a couple of parked cars ) When I parked and got out of my car, he proceeded to write me a ticket for: *Excessive speed *[b]Breaking traction around a corner!?![/b] *[b]Reckless endangerment towards a person!?![/b] Totaling about [b]$85[/b] This is a total crock of BS. First, my audi cannot break traction on dry pavement except for the most rare of circumstances because of the full time AWD, with the studs and gravel pieces it may have sounded like it, but I sure didn't. Second, where does this guy get off writing a reckless endangerment citation when no one was around to be endangered ( I looked ). Now, granted, I may have been going a little fast for their liking but that doesn't justify writing me up for all this other $hit. My question is this. How can I argue my way out of this. I won't try to get the excessive speed expunged, but this other stuff really ticks me off. I think the guy just wants to feel important, but how can I get the head of the department to back off on the other stuff? I know some of you probably think I am just being whiney and should step up and face the music, but I really don't think I deserve the last two citations. Anyway, I've ranted long enough. What are your suggestions? Thanks, Robert
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 9:44:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 9:48:25 PM EDT
Follow the directions on the ticket or whatever instructions the officer gave you. If he's a student, I assume that it's not a state-issued traffic ticket, just some on-campus form. I don't know any of those student safety officers who have any authority on campus other than as glorified door shakers.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 10:04:43 PM EDT
WRX by chance???
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 10:36:39 PM EDT
No, I wish it was WRX, Someone here has one though. I have an audi quattro 200 with bilstein suspension upgrades and the 10-valve turbo engine. It ain't a 12 second car but it ain't no honda accord either. It wasn't a state issued ticket so I don't have to go see a judge but I do have to go see campus security. I have a bad feeling that no matter what I say I am going to get screwed. They seem to think they are real cops and have a bit of an ego problem. The only person to plead it to anyway is the "director" of campus security. I have some friends that were in the car with me that I will take with me over to the office on monday to try and get the traction and endangerment citations removed but I don't think they will want to remove them, especially the endangerment one. It just sounds too "evil" and carries a hefty fine. What would constitute reckless endangerment anyway, as in a legal definition?
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 10:47:25 PM EDT
I see your location is Idaho. What school do you go to? I went to UI.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 10:59:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turok: It just sounds too "evil" and carries a hefty fine.
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I guess you can just be glad you got a ticket from campus security and not the local PD. If I were to write somebody for those violations it would be something like this: Excessive Speed: $86 Breaking Traction Around A Corner: No such law here. I would have to go with negligent or reckless driving depending on the circumstances. Negligent driving would be $490. Reckless Driving: Go to jail, or at the very least have to appear in criminal court on a misdemeanor charge. SeMPer Fi
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 11:06:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dingleberry: I see your location is Idaho. What school do you go to? I went to UI.
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Im actually just a little to the west in walla walla but I live in northern ID
Origionally Posted By jorge5811: I guess you can just be glad you got a ticket from campus security and not the local PD. If I were to write somebody for those violations it would be something like this: Excessive Speed: $86 Breaking Traction Around A Corner: No such law here. I would have to go with negligent or reckless driving depending on the circumstances. Negligent driving would be $490. Reckless Driving: Go to jail, or at the very least have to appear in criminal court on a misdemeanor charge.
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So are you a cop or something? You call pulling into an occupantless parking lot at 10-15mph, while not breaking traction, nor endangering anyone to be a misdemeanor, wtf?!? The campus "police" just trumped up some fancy sounding "charges" to make themselves feel important.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 11:17:09 PM EDT
Well since it is not state uniform summons and a campus wanna be, then LEGALLY fuk it, it is BS. BUT since you are student at the school, you have to follow some pretty stupid rules. I got screwed by some BS myself by my school. They will most likely put a hold on your record if not paid. Meaning you can't register for class or anything till you pay up. Probably the only thing you can do is explain your case to the "judge wannabe" and see how small you can get it knocked down to. [flag]
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 11:18:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turok: So are you a cop or something? You call pulling into an occupantless parking lot at 10-15mph, while not breaking traction, nor endangering anyone to be a misdemeanor, wtf?!? The campus "police" just trumped up some fancy sounding "charges" to make themselves feel important.
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Yes I'm a cop. I'm not trying to defend what they did at all. It sounds like a load of BS to me. All I was doing was pointing out the difference in consequences between campus security and the real police, in terms of fine amounts. And I just listed the penalties for the exact same violations. Never said I thought they were right for what they did. No flame intended at all. SeMPer Fi
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 11:25:41 PM EDT
I was once ticketed (parking) for parking in a no parking zone. Only problem was that the location had been open to parking for years, and the city decided to cleverly turn it into a no parking zone on the first day of the Fall qtr., but it didn't start posting the "No Parking" signs up until later that day - after several drivers (incl. me) had already parked there. I returned to see a row of tagged autos. They buffalo'ed everyone. I then proceeded to write the traffic referee to contest the issue, stating the above testimony. He replied back that, "It's the law. Send in your remittance." So, I get cheap-tricked & hosed down for $15.00 Bottom line: "It's the law." Translation: "We gots da powa, bo'. Put it up." [sex] Sorry to say so, Turok, but they can pretty much get away with it because it's they who determine whether your argument constitutes as valid rebuttal. You know - like letting the rapist decide if the victim's complaint is valid. I think you get my point. Here's my remittance:[heavy]
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 4:41:32 AM EDT
Doc is right most schools will hold onto your records or not let you register. I got a ticket from UB in Buffalo NY because I was 20 min late getting back to my parked car Cost $15, did I pay it NOPE, FUCK THEM I dont go to UB and the ticket has now jumped to $30 and took place over a year ago. They send me threatening letters every couple of months saying I wont get my grades and cant register... Oh Wooess Me![;D] BrenLover
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:13:12 AM EDT
Did he say how fast you were going? Did he have a radar device? What speed did he put down on the ticket? Seems that the easiest rap to beat would be the speeding part. Jackbooted Parking Lot Thugs!
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 10:59:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jorge5811: Yes I'm a cop. I'm not trying to defend what they did at all. It sounds like a load of BS to me. All I was doing was pointing out the difference in consequences between campus security and the real police, in terms of fine amounts. And I just listed the penalties for the exact same violations. Never said I thought they were right for what they did. No flame intended at all. SeMPer Fi
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That's ok, I thought you were flaming. Sorry if I was a little cross, but I'm still pissed at these guys and took it out on you.
Bottom line: "It's the law." Translation: "We gots da powa, bo'. Put it up." Sorry to say so, Turok, but they can pretty much get away with it because it's they who determine whether your argument constitutes as valid rebuttal. You know - like letting the rapist decide if the victim's complaint is valid. I think you get my point
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Yes, I see your point exactly. That is what I know is going to happen. I am just asking if anyone has a sure-fire method to argue this down to just the excessive speed. I realize that they are going to hold on to the "reckless endangerment" like the cash cow. But I really don't want to pay for something I feel they have no buisiness making pay for since it's just a load of horse $hit. C'mon, does anyone have even the slightest suggestion on how to accomplish this?
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 1:01:53 PM EDT
Well, you may feel it's road apples, he doesn't. He tho' has to prove you did what he claims. Who is the "ticket" supposed to be heard in front of? Campus Police Chief, other students, lawyer wannabees?? It makes a difference. Here's what I suggest 1) Remain calm. 2) Request a hearing or tribunal or whatever they have set up to hear the case. 3) Have your passengers ready to tell what they witnessed. 4) Be ready to lose. 5) $85 really isn't that much. 6) If this is something that will effect insurance, DL status be ready to appeal. Bear in mind that they might be reacting to complaints of parking lot idiots and are not in the "give 'em a break mode". Also see if it is possible to get some type of representation, for free, from the school, like a lawyer wannabe of your own.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 2:40:10 PM EDT
If this guy was not a cop, why the hell did you stop? In FL, campus police are police at state schools. Some private schools have security guards and might issue "parking tickets", but you can safely tell them to take a long walk off a short pier. What you need to weigh is the aggravation that fighting this stupid stuff might impose on your life. I really can't speak to what authority this guy had. I suspect that you can challenge this guy in some forum, and I urge you to do so.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 3:43:25 PM EDT
In hindsight I was a complete moron to go and park but I didn't think he would say anything. I really wasn't doing anything except pulling into the parking lot just a litte fast. The best thing would have been to just keep going to the other end and park on the other side of campus on the public street where he has no recourse, but you know what they say, "hindight is 20/20". I plan on taking the people that were riding with me when I go to appeal the ticket either tommorow or on monday. I just hope I can convince the "chief" of campus security ( the guy I have to appeal it to ) to drop the bogus stuff.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 4:21:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2001 4:24:57 PM EDT by mk1iii]
The thing I have a problem with is the fact you weren't even on a public road. It's a parking lot. That's private property and to me all they can do is ask you to leave and call the police for criminal trespass if you refuse. Like if I'm chirpping wheels in the Walmart parking lot am I going to give a rat's ass if the bag boy writes me a ticket. A campus may be government property so the Security may have some powers of law enforcement. Fight, fight, fight!
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 4:41:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turok: No, I wish it was WRX, Someone here has one though. I have an audi quattro 200 with bilstein suspension upgrades and the 10-valve turbo engine. It ain't a 12 second car but it ain't no honda accord either.
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CooL! I'm sure the 2.2L turbo five banger provides plenty of fun with the quattro system!
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:53:40 PM EDT
Well check first, here it is against the law to hold grades for a non acedemic reason. As for the tickets, where is the judge? is it a campus one? If not then your word against his. Is he through an academy and certified? Then how is he doing speed with out radar or laser? Reckless is the hardest to prove, it is usually issued to make and easy plea bargain to lesser offense. Tell them about your car, and that it is impossible to break traction unless you were going so faster than it is possible in a parking lot
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:45:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:46:03 PM EDT
Well, I at one time used to be a student officer. We could issue citations for anything that was against the Universities polices. If you did not pay the finds they would put a hold on your records. If I were you I would go in and ask to see the chief of police and explain you situation. The S.O. was just on a power trip, just as I once was.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:48:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:49:20 PM EDT
It isn't a public university so Im certain it is private property. Can they not write me a ticket legally even though they are part of the college? Yes, the quattro works quite well. I've never driven a more sure-footed car on ice and snow. It won't even slide out on the snow (so tell me how again it "broke traction" on dry pavement?).
private property and to me all they can do is ask you to leave and call the police for criminal trespass if you refuse.
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So, do you know where on the internet, I could look up WA state laws on traffic violations on private property? I would love to tell them (with proof of course) that they couldn't legally write me a moving violation citation. Probably to good to be true though.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:56:22 PM EDT
they can write you a citation for anything that is against there polices. Were I used to work it was a policy you could not back in a parking space, that is not against any state law, that was a University policy (law). They can make, and enforce any policy they want. You should have received a book of university rules and polices.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 9:01:54 PM EDT
"A little fast" = guilty. Face the facts like a man, you got busted for doing something stupid. Next time slow down. And stop whining.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 7:32:26 AM EDT
When I was in college, driving my 2 door honda accord hatchback, I never "cornered" into the parking lot at 10-15 mph. 10-15 is just way too slow, try it. BTW, I got pulled over on base for going 18 in a 15 mph zone in a parking lot. Yes, I was speeding since when the MP pulled up behind me I looked at my speedo, 18 mph, next second I look at the speed limit sign (15 mph) a LONG five seconds later the MP lights me up. I had lifted my foot from the gas pedal but I guess there was a little decline in the road as I didn't slow down anymore from the 18 mph.... Nuts.....
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 11:26:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By johnmcnary: "A little fast" = guilty. Face the facts like a man, you got busted for doing something stupid. Next time slow down. And stop whining.
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I never said I wasn't guilty of the speeding violation. I just said that breaking traction around a corner was NOT what I did, nor was anyone recklessly endangered. So I will step up and pay the speeding fine, but I don't feel that having to pay the other fines is right so that is what I am trying to get removed.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 11:41:38 AM EDT
I am a campus security officer and have yet to write a singe ticket in 6 months. I know at our school a ticket goes in front a board of students and random teachers when contested. You need to become one and then they won't hassle you anymore, at least make friends with one of them.
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