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Posted: 11/28/2001 3:38:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2001 8:26:34 AM EDT by Waverunner]
[b]ATTENTION[/b] I know, I know this is AR15.com but I'm trying to generate interest in the possibility of a Limited Edition Group Purchase AK type rifle/carbine. Anyone interested? The guys on the AK Forums are trying to get the ball rolling here. As of now, (as far as I know)we still don't know what configuration they're looking at, I'm voting for a SAR2 CampyClone myself...[heavy] Head over to the LEGP Forum and post something under the topic "Any chance of an LEGP AK?" stating that you would [size=6][b]seriously[/b][/size=6] want one. OK, back to moderating...
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 3:41:49 AM EDT
You know what? Let me [s]abuse[/s], ahem, I mean utilize my moderator status once again and tack this up top for awhile.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:26:30 AM EDT
If this is gonna be done after christmas...i'm all about it. SAR2 campyclone....HELL YEAH!!! romanian sar2, kvar stockset...muzzle break...KOBRA as an option??? excellent.-Marty
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:32:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Martsmth: If this is gonna be done after christmas...i'm all about it. SAR2 campyclone....HELL YEAH!!! romanian sar2, kvar stockset...muzzle break...KOBRA as an option??? excellent.-Marty
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Excellent, make sure you get over to the LEGP forum and let 'em know over there!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:05:58 AM EDT
Nope, no interest here. I am waiting for a LEGP that is made for long range accuracy. Free floated barrel(20"+), sweet trigger, 20x scope, bipod, flattop, custom lower, camo print, etc. until then... TheRedGoat/Baphomet
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:09:08 AM EDT
I would be interested as long as it is something other than a stock SAR-1 or SAR-2. How about an RPK?
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:09:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Baphomet: Nope, no interest here. I am waiting for a LEGP that is made for long range accuracy. Free floated barrel(20"+), sweet trigger, 20x scope, bipod, flattop, custom lower, camo print, etc. until then... TheRedGoat/Baphomet
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[blue]Would you like this with or without the solid rocket boosters, and does the attached the beverage cooler need to be high or low volume..?[/blue]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:23:50 AM EDT
Depending on the price-but yes
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:29:54 AM EDT
As long as it is done after Christmas. I can't jump in the 1911 LEGP since it is a bad time. Hopefully the 1911 will come up again in the spring. Cost is another isssue. AK's should be cheap, if it is not, there better be a good reason. Av.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:04:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By antiUSSA:
Originally Posted By Baphomet: Nope, no interest here. I am waiting for a LEGP that is made for long range accuracy. Free floated barrel(20"+), sweet trigger, 20x scope, bipod, flattop, custom lower, camo print, etc. until then... TheRedGoat/Baphomet
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[blue]Would you like this with or without the solid rocket boosters, and does the attached the beverage cooler need to be high or low volume..?[/blue]
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Actually, I would like the rocket booster option, or maybe a grenade launcher. You never know when "coyote wave attack" might occur. They are pretty wiley, you know. As for the Beverage dispenser option, perhaps we could work out something in the way of a kevlar helmet with two beverage holders on top, and a sipping straw? I always thought those 'beer helmets' missed their true nitch in the sniper/counter-sniper roll. Oh yeah, since it is for long range shooting, let's see if we can get a Beta-C included too. I could bump fire 100 rounds, prone, I bet. Instead of a camo helmet liner, let's opt for the tin-foil lining? Sound good? I thought so, too! TheRedGoat/Baphomet
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:19:37 AM EDT
[b]YES[/b]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:43:40 AM EDT
Definately, depending on price.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:43:50 AM EDT
YES !!! I would prefer a campyclone cuz I already have a 7.62 [:D] but lets see what we can come up with. [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/SPECTRE%2F049%2Egif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:54:30 AM EDT
Definately, depending on price. Tyler
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:03:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 12:56:10 PM EDT by Avalon01]
Is there anyway to do some sort of layaway? Make a minimum per month...say $225. That way it only takes 3 or 4 months to pay off. Plus, nothing would be ordered until the debt is paid off. I would rather do that then pay out money all at once. Av. Edited to say: or even break up the payments into 2 or 3 equal payments. Makes it easier.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:27:23 PM EDT
I would do it on a few conditions: It needs to be dirt cheap, I spend way to much as it is. I could care less if it is fancy, but I'd like a slant brake and synthetic stocks, but I could live without those too. It can't be .223, that'd be pointless. No dumbass single stack nonsense.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:41:41 PM EDT
Depends what we decide to go with. I am in otherwise.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 2:02:46 PM EDT
I'll say yes to a parts kit. Then, the members wouldn't have to go through an FFL, so more members will be able to participate. A couple of options: Interordinance (don't groan) has RPK kits for $99. I bet they would sell those in bulk for much cheaper. Add-in a new barrel and enough US parts, then you have something nice and unique. It's not an AK that you see in every store like a SAR or MAK. The Chief has Krinkov kits for just over $250. Add-in to the group purchase the requisite US parts and a muzzle break to bring the barrel length to the 16" minimum, and again, you'd have something nice and unique. Whatever is decided, I hope it won't be like the 1911 where the price was twice what most thought it would be.z
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 2:11:56 PM EDT
[url]http://ak.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=48534&page=1[/url] Make it happen My vote...7.62x39 as cheap as you can get it.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 2:23:58 PM EDT
Am I interested? YES! Can I legally buy one? NO! If I could, I would, after Christmas. Does anyone know if the 1911 is gonna be available after the new year?
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 3:14:43 PM EDT
Forgive me, But what is LEGP? Karl
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 3:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: [red]I'll say yes to a parts kit. Then, the members wouldn't have to go through an FFL, so more members will be able to participate.[/red] A couple of options: Interordinance (don't groan) has RPK kits for $99. I bet they would sell those in bulk for much cheaper. Add-in a new barrel and enough US parts, then you have something nice and unique. It's not an AK that you see in every store like a SAR or MAK. The Chief has Krinkov kits for just over $250. Add-in to the group purchase the requisite US parts and a muzzle break to bring the barrel length to the 16" minimum, and again, you'd have something nice and unique. [red]Whatever is decided, I hope it won't be like the 1911 where the price was twice what most thought it would be.z[/red]
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Since I don't flame people very often at all, I am going to request a [b]PASS[/b] in advance... [b]1)[/b] RECEIVERS require an FFL!!! [b]2)[/b] If you weren't such a [b]DUMBASS[/b] and had actually paid attention, you would have known that [u]the Springfield LOADED 1911 is $200 under retail![/u] It really chaps my ass when some loser goes on a rampage and spews false information about something he obviously has no idea as to what he is talking about!!! [pissed]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 3:37:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 3:39:23 PM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
k-k, limited edition group purchase. how could one live another day without owning one of these? heheheheh! [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/013/Zm/OG/pU/IX57745.jpg[/img] it's pure eeeeeevil personified! lol! modern, lightweight thermoset polymer furniture...side sling...polymer, bakelite or steel mags (starting a $5/each!)...lightweight (under 7lbs.)...fully functional and legal military brake (funny...the soviets catalog them as "flame extinguishers"!!!) that the batf has approved for LOOSE THREADED INSTALLATION (no weld, no pins, no silver solder...and yes, the atf letter is available for posting)...optional reknown optics from novosibirsk, such as the 4x rangefinding ,illuminated reticule and equipped with infrared detection model pso-1, the pso-4 "lynx" or the autocollimeter (red dot) model "kobra". all mount with a quick detach lever on the standard com-bloc optic rail! all this and more...with the world reknown reliability of a kalashnikov!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:00:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:01:50 PM EDT
CAMPYBOB, How much would a SAR2 with the black poly furniture and brake, like yours, cost minus the optics? I'm not in the financial condition to buy right now, but if the price is really good, and I sell all the guns I currently have for sale, I could be interested in finally adding an AK to the collection.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:23:53 PM EDT
I think it should be done w/ a HIGH quality AK variant. Something like an Arsenal.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:30:26 PM EDT
antiUSSA, what are you so upset about, and why are you taking it out on others? You do not have to go through an FFL to buy a parts kit. It appears that you disagree with that. Why would you want to mislead us on that fact?z
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:36:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: antiUSSA, what are you so upset about, and why are you taking it out on others? You do not have to go through an FFL to buy a parts kit. It appears that you disagree with that. Why would you want to mislead us on that fact?z
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Because any dumbass does know that you still need an FFL for the RECEIVER! and don't get me started on the "FACTS", because YOU spoke out of your ass about the 1911, when you didn't have a clue as to what you were talking about!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:51:35 PM EDT
Because any dumbass does know that you still need an FFL for the RECEIVER!
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OK, I give, what I think, are a couple of good suggestions, and I say that I'm interested. Instead, you (excuse the language) call me a DUMBASS in all caps and in bold. I suggested a parts kit. Is it your contention that vendors, such as Tacpo, Global Trades, K-VAR, etc., are breaking the law by sending the kits directly to a customer without going through an FFL? Do you normally attack potential customers like this? I've been on this board for over a year, and you are the first person to direct language like that at me. I don't know if you're having a bad day, or if the topic of a group purchase is a sore point. I can understand that after seeing the complaints you got about the 1911. Calling potential buyers obscenities isn't the way to gain customers.z
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:58:12 PM EDT
zoom, you seem to have a problem with the prices and practices of Castle Arms. Please either take these issues up with antiUSSA via email, or with his permission, I'll send you his phone number.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:04:40 PM EDT
Campybob, that is one SWEEEETTT rifle! Tyler
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:07:33 PM EDT
Zoom, was it a [b]GOOD IDEA[/b] for you to spout off about the 1911 when you clearly knew nothing about what you were saying..? Also, the only 1911 complaint I've had was from YOU, and you obviously haven't a clue as to what you are talking about! Zoom, in what life have you ever purchased a [b]NEW[/b] receiver legally without the need for an FFL..? When you go a study the laws, get your license, spend countless hours putting these things together, then we'll talk... Until then, your just a dumbass without a clue! Oh yea, whatever it may be that I am selling at great prices, you can't have one! [pissed]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:10:22 PM EDT
I could of swore that I already posted in this forum, but I don't see it now. I would be in on an LEGP AK, depending on price, of course! What Anti was saying is that you need an FFL in order to ship a RECEIVER. A kit, doesn't come with a receiver, therefore you can ship it without an FFL! You both were right, but you were just talking about 2 different things. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:15:52 PM EDT
I'm in! I say Arsenal USA in 7.62x39 with synthetic stocks, no optics. They make Great guns and if we buy bulk we should be able to get them very reasonable (say $375?) No custom mods except maybe a better trigger. keep the price low. [50]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:34:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 5:26:54 PM EDT by Pthfndr]
How about some kind of CA legal LEGP longarm us Caliban residents can participate in. Like a 40X or 700 with a nice bull barrel and camo stock ... or maybe a baseball bat [:D]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:43:16 PM EDT
jboze wrote:
A kit, doesn't come with a receiver, therefore you can ship it without an FFL!
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Thanks for posting that, and that was exactly my point that more members would be able to participate, because the kits could be shipped directly to them. DonR wrote:
zoom, you seem to have a problem with the prices and practices of Castle Arms.
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I have no problem with Castle Arms other than a small nitpick about their choise to make the 1911 group purchase a more expensive pistol than what most people asked for. Of course, it was their right to do so, because they were doing the work. Other than a little problem with his strawman argument today, I have no problem with antiUSSA. They've contributed to this forum, and I respect them and appreciate them for that. I just wanted state that clearly, because from reading what DonR wrote, it sounds like he took my post to be an attack on Castle Arms' business practises. That is not what I intended. From the comments I've seen here about the LEPG rifle, I think their practises and quality are above reproach.z
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:51:53 PM EDT
Thanks for posting that, and that was exactly my point that more members would be able to participate, because the kits could be shipped directly to them.
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Kits are great, but they REQUIRE receivers!
I have no problem with Castle Arms other than a small nitpick about their choise to make the 1911 group purchase a more expensive pistol than what most people asked for. Of course, it was their right to do so, because they were doing the work.
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Actually, the intent was for it to be a $1000 custom handgun, but it didn't work that way... and the members were polled and decided upon the final configuration!
Other than a little problem with his strawman argument today, I have no problem with antiUSSA.
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I've never mentioned "STRAWMAN"...
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 6:00:11 PM EDT
No to a LEGP AK... I love my LEGP AR15 I need another safe!!!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:49:04 PM EDT
zoom: anti is more upset with the interest expressed yet again for the 1911. It is hard to pin down a config & a pricepoint that makes everyone happy. As usual after the interest was expressed on a config & price everybody disappeared. If we work on a AK LEGP we will have to take the expressed interest as being about 4x what will be actual.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:57:32 PM EDT
i think the best solution is to start with the lowest cost model possible to please the most people, since money is the number one issue, and then include options (just like the 2001 AR LEGP). I mean a SAR-2 w/synthetic stocks would be a nice starting place, and have options include trigger mod, kobra, or scope etc.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:15:49 PM EDT
I would be interested in one myself, as long as the price was right, and it was in 5.45. My Norinco 7.62 is soooo lonely for it's younger sibling! Vulcan94
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:51:10 PM EDT
AntiUSSA wrote:
I've never mentioned "STRAWMAN"...
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The strawman I was talking about was your argument that you have to go through an FFL to buy a parts kit. Yes, you do for the receiver, but to get the parts you don't. You were lumping those two together, and that's what I'm calling the strawman. That's all I was saying. I didn't mean anything too bad about with my comment. Grin_N_Barrett wrote:
As usual after the interest was expressed on a config & price everybody disappeared.
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As I understand it, there have only been 12 sold so far. That's pitiful. Everyone did disappear. AntiUSSA went to a lot of work and there was a lot of discussion for only that few to sell. Now, I understand the frustration.z
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:15:28 PM EDT
Well I would like to say I'd be interested but I truly don't know. I'd rather have the LEGP 1911 but since I just put $703 worth of truck repair on my credit card the 1911 LEGP isn't gonna happen for me the next few months.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 3:59:32 AM EDT
AntiUSSA:
Kits are great, but they REQUIRE receivers!
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Yes, a kit would require a reciever to be complete, but have you stopped by the Build It Yourself forum lately? There are plans for building your own AK, or, people could just go down to their local FFL and pay $90 for one. That way, the whole board wouldnt have to worry about making sure the receiver is legal in all states, the parts kits could be shipped out regardless of local laws on the receivers, on the presumption that the purchaser already has a (legal to own) receiver. Kharn
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 5:46:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: Campybob, that is one SWEEEETTT rifle! Tyler
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Man, I'll second that! How much did that sweet piece of machinery cost you Campy? If the group purchase was in this configuration and costs less than $200 bux, count me in!! [:P] Seriously, what would the config be and the rough ball park figure?
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 6:17:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By antiUSSA: [b]2)[/b] If you weren't such a [b]DUMBASS[/b] and had actually paid attention, you would have known that [u]the Springfield LOADED 1911 is $200 under retail![/u] It really chaps my ass when some loser goes on a rampage and spews false information about something he obviously has no idea as to what he is talking about!!! [pissed]
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FWIW, count me in on the 'false information crowd.' I saw the original thread about a 1911 LEGP. (Lordtrader's idea I think...) I am not a fan of the 1911 in general, so after just a few days I lost interest in the thread. I did recall that the price (originally) was carped about being too high. I also remember that the 1911 idea was supposed to be implemented at a later date, but not immediately incarnated. In other words, most of those that wanted the gun, were interested in buying a 1911, but most did NOT have the funds ready at this point. (Christmas, layoffs, LEGP over the summer, etc.) Toss me into the pool with zoom about the perceptions associated with the 1911, I too only remember the early parts of the thread, cost, timing, features, etc. AntiUSSA, not a flame here but some advice, perhaps. I am a regular reader here on AR15 and certainly admit that I know more than some, but less than most. If I had a question about having a gun built, prices, options, features or even wanted to have some work done on my gun, you would be the last place I would turn. Seriously, this is not a flame, but you intimidate the heck out of 'regular' users with your posts at times. Not paying attention to a thread about a 1911 does not a dumbass make. I have never seen ammoman flame a poster in the ammo forum. I have seen eric post in response to questions about his prices, ammo deals, shipping charges, but I don't recall ever seeing him call a poster a dumbass for not understanding the intricacies of his market. However, I have seen him explain the costs, procedures and difficulties of selling ammo. For that reason, I do not have any hesitation about sending him an email, or making a post directed to him about any little, perhaps newbie, idea I might have. Also, based upon his attitude, I not only use his ammo service, but also encourage others to do the same. Ok, I am going to go hide now.... TheRedGoat/Baphomet
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 7:03:07 AM EDT
Seriously, this is not a flame, but you intimidate the heck out of 'regular' users with your posts at times. Not paying attention to a thread about a 1911 does not a dumbass make.
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All of the information has very clearly been posted numerous times, so flaming me over the 1911 without first verifying the "posted information" is the problem I have... That would constitute a dumbass in anyones mind! LordTrader was NOT the first to mention the 1911 LEGP, it had been discussed throughoput the spring and summer, and to a rather extensive degree. This is when the majority" of "interested" members had expressed a desire for a tricked out $1000 handgun. When the idea was then being spammed all over the boards last month to get the ball rolling, we took it that from the level of responses that it was wanted NOW, not off in some unknown future... the same now holds very true for the AK LEGP that is being discussed in this thread, and in numerous others like it all over this site. Comparing me to "Eric the Ammoman" is like comparring apples to jalepeno peppers... Eric is a great guy, but [u]DOES NOT[/u] put together custom group firearm purchases for anyone, and has also aparently expressed zero interest in doing a group ammo purchase as well. Trust me when I say that we don't do this for financial gain... we go through all of these headaches and deal with EVERYONES differing opinions on how it "should have been done like this or that", for you guys! The same holds very true for the Avila family with all of the time and resources they put into keeping this place up and running... we could all save a hell of a lot of time and money by just putting a stop to both the LEGP program and AR15.COM, but we do ths as a way to GIVE BACK to the firearms community and further expand the capabilities of each and every one of us combined. We need to get more firearms out there to those that don't have them, so we can properly edumacate and work in a team effort to change the laws. Doing what Grin&Barret and I do is just our way of helping... if that's not good enough, then we'll stop!
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:31:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By antiUSSA: All of the information has very clearly been posted numerous times, so flaming me over the 1911 without first verifying the "posted information" is the problem I have...
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True, but, not many people (myself included) take the time to go back and re-read every thread until its conclusion is reached. Most people skim, jump, half-read most threads. Perhaps I misread zoom's post, but I did not think he flamed you with his post about the 1911.
That would constitute a dumbass in anyones mind!
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IMHO, it makes them typical of most posters on bulletin boards. YMMV My reason for posting was to prevent zoom from looking like the only poster who had misperceptions about the 1911. (do the math, if there are at least 2 posters who have misperceptions, then maybe some better PR about specs, costs, features would help lift 1911 LEGP sales?) Zoom said it best... "OK, I give, what I think, are a couple of good suggestions, and I say that I'm interested. Instead, you (excuse the language) call me a DUMBASS in all caps and in bold." I had no idea what 'parts kit' zoom was talking about. I was curious why there was no need for an FFL and felt like asking 'why?' Then, boom, you came down on him like a ton of bricks. I don't think anyone was asking you guys to stop the LEGP, but I think there is a perception that exists: LEGP is for ONLY those elite posters that know every nuance, limitation, law, feature, add-on, custom detail. Any other suggestions will be taunted, chastised, belittled. Case in point, I posted what I wanted in a LEGP AR15 and you responded with what I assumed was a good natured ribbing. I tend to take things light heartedly and responded in kind. Other people are not so forgiving/understanding. Maybe if you quit running into the chicken house waving your arms and screaming, the chickens might lay more eggs? TheRedGoat/Baphomet PS, I loved the apples to jalapenos comparison!
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:49:43 AM EDT
I'll say yes to a parts kit. Then, the members wouldn't have to go through an FFL, so more members will be able to participate.
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If the parts kit includes a receiver, then you would still need to go through an FFL. If you already own a receiver, then this might be possible.
Whatever is decided, I hope it won't be like the 1911 where the price was twice what most thought it would be.z
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Although there was some initial (and heated) debate about the pricing and features of the 1911, the final version of the 1911 LEGP is $____.__ this is $200.00 under the normal list price of a custom Springfield 1911. Here is a link to the 1911 thread: [ insert thread here ] Since I don't flame people very often at all, I am going to request a [b]PASS[/b] in advance... [b]1)[/b] RECEIVERS require an FFL!!! [b]2)[/b] If you weren't such a [b]DUMBASS[/b] and had actually paid attention, you would have known that [u]the Springfield LOADED 1911 is $200 under retail![/u] It really chaps my ass when some loser goes on a rampage and spews false information about something he obviously has no idea as to what he is talking about!!! [pissed]
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We're a team, right? Would you really tell someone else on your team what you told zoom? Seriously, the guy had an idea, added some input and got ripped for it. That ain't the way a real teammate treats another. Unless, of course, zoom is a subordinate team member IYHO, then all bets are off. [>:/] TheRedGoat/Baphomet
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:53:22 AM EDT
LEGP is for ONLY those elite posters that know every nuance, limitation, law, feature, add-on, custom detail. Any other suggestions will be taunted, chastised, belittled.
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Not even! That's why the polls are taken and user input is paramount. Why are there always a few that insist on changing the parameters of a weapon AFTER it has already been commissioned, or already even built..? This creates animosity all the way around, and always leads to posts such as these. There will be many more styles of just about everything, so if ya don't like the features or pricing of "A", then wait for "B" or "C"... Personally, I hate the M4 series of AR's, and have little to no use for them... but the majority wanted it, and so we strived to put together the best possible M4 that could be found anywhere. Hell, we designed and put the 2001 together, but it certainly isn't what either Grin&Barrett or I wanted!
Case in point, I posted what I wanted in a LEGP AR15 and you responded with what I assumed was a good natured ribbing. I tend to take things light heartedly and responded in kind. Other people are not so forgiving/understanding.
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You can't possibly make everyone happy all of the time, therefore I won't even my waste time trying! [;)]
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 9:00:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2001 8:54:37 AM EDT by Baphomet]
Originally Posted By antiUSSA: I hate the M$ series or AR's, and personally have little to no use for them
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You did see that this was AR15.com, right? Just kidding. I understand what you are trying to say.[;)]
You can't possibly make everyone happy all of the time
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True, but I can Guarantee you will make anybody unhappy ANYTIME you refer to them as a dumbass. YMMV, of course. TheRedGoat/Baphomet PS. You know you are spending too much time on AR15.com when you actually stop and think about a post.... [:\]
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