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Posted: 11/24/2001 12:14:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2001 12:11:52 AM EDT by AFARR]
I was channel surfing tonight and saw something I thought was interesting-- The channel was "Animal Planet" They were showing ASPCA "police". The patch on the jacket said: ASPCA Humane Law Enforcement. They were carrying guns, radios and cuffs. In the couple of minutes I watched, they told some guy he was "probably going to be arrested", and when they attempted to cuff him, he ran off. Their comments: "we have his jacket and know where he lives". Another scene was them in a car talking about arresting a guy for burning the whiskers off a cat as a punishment. I am against being needlessly cruel to an animal, but this is going overboard. By what right and legal code can they act as police officers? Could they be arrested for impersonating a law enforcement officer? If one of them was approaching you and placed their hand on their gun and you shot them, would it be the same as shooting a police officer, or more like acting in self defense against an armed attacker (sorry to ask so bluntly, but that is what it boils down to--if they are not a legal entity, and they act in a threatening manner, then they fall under the "Immediate danger and capable of doing great bodily harm to you" test that I learned when taking my CCW class)? I am definitely not anti-LEO, but I think this is TOO FAR if they are LEO's. Since when does a private organization have any authority to investigate and arrest citizens. If they are doing some kind of "citizen's arrest", then they are not LEO's and should NOT be dressed and armed like them. AFARR Edited to add: I thought there were STRICT limitations on Citizen's arrests. You had to do so to while the crime was being committed, not after the fact (i.e. the cat's whiskers), and it had to be for serious crimes, not J-walking, animal cruelity, etc. While shopkeepers have some limited capability to "arrest"--i.e. if you catch someone shoplifting, you can reasonably detain them until the police arrive. I don't think the average shop keeper can cuff someone, though.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 12:23:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 12:29:06 AM EDT
ASPCA Police[rolleyes] That is a lil. to far but I got to say the guy that was burning the whiskers off a cat is a dumb a$$ and should have somebody pick his a$$ up. Somebody thats sick like that will just end up shot but he REAL cops should do it. BTW: Do the ASPCA police put there K9 units to sleep every two weeks[:D]
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 12:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2001 12:35:27 AM EDT by SomeGuyInAHat]
Originally Posted By WhomItMayConcern: Fascinating. They are glorified dogcatchers.
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If I understand correctly, they could care less about catching stray dogs. Their purpose in life is to either remove animals from the homes of those people they feel are abusing their animals or to arrest said people. Edited to correct my improper usage of a homonym of the word their.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 12:37:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 12:56:31 AM EDT
My wife is a huge fan of that show. I used to watch it too before it went into reruns. They did a neat special last month called "Animal Precinct at Ground Zero" on how the team reacted after 9/11, rescuing stranded pets, escorting owners in The Zone, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that they were a division of the NYPD.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 1:16:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2001 1:18:05 AM EDT by FishKepr]
Hey, I was wrong. I checked the FAQ on the show's website and apparently the team is a private entity separate from the NYPD. Curiously, the FAQ makes no effort to deal with any of the legal questions put forward here. [url]http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/animalprecinct/animalprecinct.html[/url] I should mention that railroads have privatly run police agencies (UP Police) with full police powers, sidearms, arrest powers, etc. I have no idea how that would relate to ASPCA though.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 1:33:17 AM EDT
I think they charged that guy with a felony for burning Frisky's whiskers. They were talking about 1-3 years. When they showed the cat at the vet, it looked like just the tips of his whiskers were singled. The guy needs a major butt kicking, but a felony rap with 1-3 years sounds excessive.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 4:08:33 AM EDT
This animal protection cause is a load of crap.don't get me wrong if you are cruel to an animal you should have your butt kicked. A guy getting 1-3 yrs for burning kitties whiskers is ridicules, most child molesters only serve an average of 18 months for their crimes. there is no way a crime to an animal should get stiffer sentences.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 4:39:44 AM EDT
1-3 years in Federal is a bit excessive. They should just have some huge dude sit on him and burn HIS whiskers off.[}:D]
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:02:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:22:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:24:55 AM EDT
In New York law, their apparently is a provision for commissioning these folks as Peace Officers. I assume that this gives them the same or similar arrest powers as a regular officer, although I think that New York is one of the states that has several different "classes" of Peace Officers, with varying degrees of arrest search and seizure authority. Under Texas Law, Animal Control Officers are licensed by the state, but have no arrest authority and are generally not armed. They can issue citations, only. I have saved more than a few of them from getting their butts kicked by irate people. Animal cruelty under some circumstances just got bumped up to a felony here, with a maximum of 2 years in a state jail. Any POs from New York State care to enlighten us?
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:32:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:35:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: In New York law, their apparently is a provision for commissioning these folks as Peace Officers. I assume that this gives them the same or similar arrest powers as a regular officer, although I think that New York is one of the states that has several different "classes" of Peace Officers, with varying degrees of arrest search and seizure authority. Any POs from New York State care to enlighten us?
View Quote
New York State Criminal Procedure Law, section 2.10 "Persons Designated as Peace Officers" #7: "Officers or Agents of a duly incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals." ASPCA Officers have full powers of arrest, carry weapons, and attend the Police Academy. They did quite a bit of work with the WTC and assisted the NYPD with search dogs, etc.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:42:09 AM EDT
Thanks Hiram and Krisdani. We only have two categories of Peace Officer in Texas, reserve and regular, and both categories can carry weapons and make arrests. The law particularly allows our POs to carry at all times, regardless of duty status.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:44:00 AM EDT
Believe it or not I saw a show one time where those guys were totally swatted out with entry weapons and body armor. They were busting a dog fight or something and were expecting/looking for some real trouble!
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:45:21 AM EDT
We had one of these SPCA Mall Ninjas show up at the front gate of our gun club demanding entrance. Big line of BS trying to bluff his way in. We firmly told him to get lost. Haven't seen him again and it's been two years.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 6:59:45 AM EDT
Okay gentlemen, playing devil's advocate here. Lets' supppose you a**hole neighbor is abusing his dog on a regular basis and you want to bring in the authorities to nail his ass. I for one rather NOT take a beat police officer from his duties to handle this, and animal control officer is just the ticket.... Bulldog OUT [peep]
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 8:23:16 AM EDT
All right Bulldog, I'll take the challenge-- I agree that I would not like to take the beat cop off of his other duties, and would send Animal Control. An Animal Control Officer is NOT a private organization, but a paid employee of the city. If the owner is found to be in violation of the law, then a warrant is issued for his arrest, and a duly appointed officer of the Court (again, a public employee) is sent to arrest him based on the warrant for his arrest signed by a judge. Not a private police organization. I did consider things like armed security guards and Campus Police officers when I wrote this post. These guys far exceed that--they are not limited to certain boundaries (the College grounds, the Store/Mall, the Rail Road)--they are Paid PRIVATE police, regardless of if they are Peace Officers or not. Where does their loyalty lie? To the City that swore them in, or the Organization that pays them?
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 8:58:59 AM EDT
Afarr you probobly already know this, but in the greater Chi. area we have. 1) The State Police 2)The secratary of State Police 3)Cook County Sherriffs Police 4)Forest Preserve Police 5) Chicago Park District Police 6)Metropolitan Sanitary District Police 7)Water Reclamation District Police 8)CTA Police 9)CHA Police 10)City of Chi. Police 11)Ohare Airport Security(armed) 12)Metra Security (armed) 13)Conservation Police Not to mention the various surrounding suburban and county law inforcement.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 9:47:57 AM EDT
BRM, You forget the U of I, CMS, and U of C police. However, with the exception of the above and Metra and Airport Securty, they are all employees of the City. And for the exceptions, they are basically security guards with police powers--and they are limited to specific areas (Metra, U of C, OHare, etc.). These ASPCA guys are Private employees with the run of the city.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 2:55:19 PM EDT
A few years ago one of the MANY feral cat that were running wild around here decided to have a litter of kittens under some pallettes near where I live. They were making a huge mess so I called animal control. The guy at the AC office told me that I would have to catch all of the cats, put them in something like a burlap bag and then they would come down to pick the strays up. Yeah right, like I am supposed to the job my taxes pay him to do. I could tell by the way he was talking that the idiot only wanted to keep watching oprah (I could hear the tv blaring in the background) and didn't want to get up off his butt to do any work.
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