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Posted: 11/13/2001 7:31:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2001 12:16:19 PM EDT by Muad_Dib]
Below is a copy of an email alert that I received from State Senator Dave Zien. [red]If a moderator could please pin this to the top I'd appreciate it.[/red] Thanks. Dear PPA supporter: Today Rep. Scott Gunderson and I announced the reintroduction of our concealed carry legislation, which we call the Personal Protection Act (PPA). I'm including the press release for your information at the bottom of this message. Currently PPA is a draft being circulated among legislators for cosponsorship as "LRB 1086". Once the draft is introduced it will receive an Assembly Bill number and a Senate Bill number. Now we need your help! Call, write, or email your Senator and Representative and encourage them to not only support the legislation, but to sign on as a co-sponsor of the bill. Be sure to ask them for a response, giving their position on the bill. You can contact your Senator or Representative by calling the Legislative Hotline at 800-362-9472 or go to: www.legis.state.wi.us to find their email and mailing addresses. If you're not sure who your Senator or Representative is you can go to the "Who are my Legislators?" section of the website and type in your mailing address. Dave Zien State Senator 23rd District Law-Abiding Citizens Allowed Self-Defense Trained, Law-Abiding Citizens to be Licensed to Carry Concealed Weapons State Senator Dave Zien (R-Wheaton) and Representative Scott Gunderson (R-Town of Norway) are renewing their drive to give law-abiding Wisconsinites the ability to protect themselves and their families. The two are offering the Personal Protection Act (PPA) to allow law-abiding citizens to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon after a criminal background check and safety training. Most states already allow this form of self-defense. Forty-four states allow some form of concealed carry for self-defense. Thirty-three of those states, representing 54% of the U.S. population, allow a right to carry similar to the Wisconsin proposal or even less restrictive. Vermont allows the right to carry without a license. The legislators point out the law works by making criminals think twice before committing violent crimes. They note that over 40% of criminals in a scientific prison survey have decided against attacking a citizen they thought might be armed. "Current law only protects criminals from citizens," said Zien. "The Personal Protection Act will level the playing field for the most common prey of criminals: women, elderly and disabled individuals." In Wisconsin, only police officers are allowed to carry a concealed weapon. The penalty for illegal carrying is only a misdemeanor, small worry to someone considering rape, murder or armed robbery. So, the current law only prevents people who conscientiously follow the law from defending themselves. The law would give these individuals a strictly regulated means to carry a concealed weapon legally.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:32:16 PM EDT
"The fact is the nine lowest violent crime rates in the country are in states that have concealed carry laws. These states, that allow individuals to carry concealed firearms, have seen tremendous drops in their rates of homicide, robbery, and aggravated assault," stated Gunderson. "The statistics have shown that concealed carry laws have worked effectively to help lower violent crime rates by an average of 24%. In a time when we, as a legislature, are trying to figure out how to cope with an ever-growing prison population, a 24 percent drop in the violent crime rate in Wisconsin would be a welcome occurrence." Individuals 21 years old or older seeking a license would undergo a state Department of Justice background check to find and root out anyone with a criminal record. This is the same check the Brady Law provides. If it was determined that the person was not a felon, violent criminal, mentally incompetent or drug or alcohol dependent they could receive a tamper-proof, photo license upon paying a fee to cover all costs and proving they had successfully completed a designated gun safety course. The license could be suspended or revoked if the licensee was charged with or convicted of a crime. "An individual that receives a concealed firearm license will have undergone firearm training, a more extensive background check than the Brady Law requires, and their information will remain on file with the Wisconsin Department of Justice," contended Gunderson. "I believe all of the safeguards are in place for this to be a success in the state of Wisconsin. We intend to follow the example of states like Florida, where their concealed weapon law has been very successful because of quality training and education. In the state of Florida, there has never been a record of any accident or incident from a lack of training, and that is the level of success we intend for Wisconsin." The licensee would not be allowed to carry in a number of places including; taverns, schools, athletic events, police stations, jails, prisons or airports. Licenses would be issued by Sheriffs who could issue temporary emergency licenses to a person whose life was in danger. Counties could opt out of offering the license or join with other counties to improve efficiency. But, no county could prevent its citizens from having the opportunity to be licensed. "Wisconsin has a long history of local control," said Zien. "This law will be administered locally by counties that can choose not to participate in licensing." "This is nothing radical. Most states have similar laws that work very well," said Zien. "In fact, not one state has ever revoked a law licensing citizens to carry concealed weapons." According to FBI crime data, states allowing concealed carry have a 24% lower violent crime rate, 26% lower homicide rate, 3% lower rape rate, 39% lower robbery rate and a 35% lower firearm robbery rate than restrictive states like Wisconsin.
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:32:50 PM EDT
"We want people to take a good hard look at the facts with an open mind," said Gunderson. "When we get beyond the knee-jerk reactions, people will realize that the evidence shows that most citizens can be trusted to act responsibly. The ones who can't be trusted are usually already armed, and obviously won't undergo the stringent licensing procedures." "We are not trying to ram anything through without giving people a chance for a good long look," said Zien. "The more facts are known, the more support we will have."
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:35:54 PM EDT
Sorry that it was so long. On a personal note: Wisconsin people, if you're only going to do one pro-gun thing this year, write or call your representatives and senators about this!
Link Posted: 11/13/2001 7:38:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 5:38:52 AM EDT
BTT How do I get this pinned up at the top of the list?
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 6:12:03 AM EDT
Thanks for the post Muad_Dib! I hope the Mods see fit to pin this to the top for a while. My e-mails to my Sen and Rep are on the way. I heard Chuck "WI CCW over my dead body" Chvala had a staffer accuse him of partially running his last campaign out of his office in the Capitol building (with taxpayers money). Anybody know if this will be enough to get his royal arse knocked down a few notches?
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 7:34:03 AM EDT
Anyone who would like to receive emails like this from Senator Zien may request to be put on his PPA email list. Send an email to Sen.Zien@legis.state.wi.us asking to be put on the PPA email list. Please include your name. He also has a snail mail list that you may request to be a part of.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 7:34:22 AM EDT
[beer]
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 8:55:21 AM EDT
[url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov01/conceal14111301a.asp[/url] Plan for concealed weapons touted Sponsors say the law would make criminals think before acting By DENNIS CHAPTMAN of the Journal Sentinel staff Last Updated: Nov. 13, 2001 Madison - If Wisconsin residents were allowed to carry concealed weapons, criminals would be less likely to victimize them, two Republican state lawmakers maintained Tuesday. Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Town of Norway) and Sen. Dave Zien (R-Town of Wheaton) have sponsored legislation to allow those who pass background checks and receive proper training to carry concealed weapons. Gunderson said would-be criminals would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew their victims might be armed. "I will get a permit, damn right," said Gunderson, who last year was attacked with a crowbar by an intruder outside his Wind Lake sporting goods store. "That guy who tried to lay my head open wouldn't have known if I was carrying." Zien maintained that such a law could hold down the state's crime rate. "Current law only protects criminals from citizens," he said. "This is nothing radical. Most states have similar laws that work very well." Zien said 44 states allow some sort of concealed carry for self-defense, and 33 of those have laws similar to their proposal. The measure, which did not make it out of committee last session, requires applicants for a permit to be at least 21 and undergo a Department of Justice background check. They also would have to complete a gun safety course before obtaining a permit, which could cost up to $75 for five years. Felons, violent criminals and individuals who are mentally incompetent or drug- or alcohol-dependent could not obtain a permit, under the measure. The proposed law would prohibit anyone from carrying concealed weapons in taverns, schools, athletic events, police stations, jails, prisons or airports. The permits would be issued by county sheriffs, and counties could opt out of issuing the permits or join with other counties to hold down costs. Attorney General James Doyle was out of the office Tuesday and unavailable for comment, but spokesman Randy Romanski said Doyle opposed the plan. "Law-abiding citizens are able to purchase guns, and that's as it should be, but having concealed weapons on the streets is not a good way to prevent crime," he said. "The attorney general is opposed to it and sees no reason to change our current law." Waukesha County Sheriff William Kruziki said he saw no problem with the proposal. "In the long run, it would help because people would be trained, and you'd have some local control over it," Kruziki said. "Forty-four states have it. It's time to get with the times." But the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence opposes such legislation, saying that the number of crime victims who successfully use firearms to defend themselves is small and that citizens underestimate how difficult it is to use a gun in self-defense. The group also questioned claims that only law-abiding citizens get concealed weapons permits. It cited an August 2000 study by the Violence Policy Center that found that, from January 1996 through April 2000, the arrest rate for weapons-related offenses among Texas permit-holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population. Appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on Nov. 14, 2001.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 8:58:36 AM EDT
Senator Dave Zien's webpage news release. [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/pr2001-13.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 10:09:23 AM EDT
[url]http://www.badgerherald.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2001/11/13/3bf1f511b1f39 [/url] Legislation would allow concealed weapons by Morgan Felchner, State editor November 13, 2001 Under newly-proposed legislation, Wisconsin residents would be able to carry concealed weapons after meeting certain qualifications. The bill, proposed Tuesday state Sen. David Zien, R-Eau Claire, and Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, would allow state residents who are over 21, take a class, pass a test and pass a background check to carry a concealed weapon. However, even after receiving a license, people would not be able to carry weapons into taverns, schools, athletic events, police stations, jails, prisons or airports. "Wisconsin in one of six states that doesn't allow any concealed weapon to be carried by citizens," Zien spokesperson Bob Seitz said. "If you are 21 years of age or older and you can submit to a background check, if you are not a violent criminal felon, then you can complete a firearm safety course and pay a fee and then you would be able to carry a concealed weapon." Thirty-three states have passed similar bills with the goal of reducing crime rates. The underlying idea is that citizens gain a sense of safety if they have the ability to carry concealed weapons. "The purpose is to save lives and prevent crime," Seitz said. "Every state that has adopted concealed weapon laws, the crime drops because criminals are less likely to commit crimes when they feel they will be deterred." Mike Bruhan, spokesperson for Gunderson, said the number who actually receive permits is small, but enough to deter crime. "The added benefit is only about 2 percent actually get a permit and carry a weapon, but a criminal doesn't know who has those, so they think twice about committing a crime," Bruhan said. Bruhan said crime rates dropped 24 percent in all states after the implementation of similar bills. Murder rates fell 8.5 percent, rape fell 5 to 7 percent and aggravated assault fell 7 percent in other states, Seitz said. Rep. Spencer Black, D-Madison, disagreed with the authors of the bill. He said it would not increase security. "I think it's a bad idea; it will lead to more fatalities," Black said. "If people are carrying concealed weapons, small fights will lead to shootings." Opposition will likely come from anti-gun organizations, as well as from various legislators. Bruhan said legislation allowing retired police officers to carry concealed weapons was met with bipartisan support, and he expected the same for this bill. Black disagreed, saying the bill was not supported by a majority of legislators.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 10:09:57 AM EDT
continued... "I think it's supported by the most extreme wing of the Republican Party," Black said. "I don't think it's going anywhere." Seitz said those initially against the bill will change their minds once crime reduction statistics are viewed. "Most people in Wisconsin have not thought about it, then they have a negative knee-jerk reaction," Seitz said. "They look at facts, thinking they are going to find a reason they won't like it, and every number and test they run trying to disprove it actually proves it." Black said he felt even the authors of the bill are not confident in its results. "I don't think the authors themselves think this is a good idea," Black said. "They would prohibit concealed weapons in the state Capitol. The fact that they want concealed weapons, but not where they work, shows they are not in full support. If they think concealed weapons will increase security, why wouldn't they want them in the Capitol?"
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 12:12:54 PM EDT
Terry Musser, State Representative of the 92nd Assembly District just emailed me saying that he has cosponsored this legislation! [size=6]Write To Your Reps![/size=6]
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 12:28:57 PM EDT
"Who are my Legislators?" you ask... I'll make it easy on you. [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/wamltest/[/url] There are three ways to determine your Legislators: By Address / By Municipality / Using a Map
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 7:29:08 PM EDT
Shameless BTT, GO CCW IN WI!!! Write your reps.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 5:14:03 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:36:45 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:06:32 PM EDT
Wish I could help y'all. The more states that offer CCW or CHL the better. Good luck WI!
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 8:32:07 PM EDT
Good Luck WL
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 5:51:01 AM EDT
From Rep. Scott Suder:
I am in full and unwaivering support of this legislation and I AM a co-author. I will continue to work with Senator Zien and my good friend Rep. Gunderson on this bill. This legislation may also be forwarded to the commmittee I chair in the State Assembly, the Criminal Justice Committee where I will guarantee a public hearing of the bill and will work toward passage of this important initiative. Thank you again for your correspondence. Rep. Scott Suder
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I also got a phone call from Rep. Ladwig yesterday. She is also in support of this bill. [size=6]Write your reps![/size=6]
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 8:35:25 AM EDT
BTT for our friends to the North. Maybe if you get it some of that luck will rub off on us... yeah right. [v]
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 6:42:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2001 6:40:20 PM EDT by Corey]
Great post Muad_Dib!! Much more information that my feeble attempt. Time for me to hit the ground running and get involved in this effort. Unfortunately, my Rep. is Mark Pocan (D) and Senator is Fred Risser (D). I'll still write to them but I don't expect much progress. I'll also get friends and family to write from all over the state. Very thorough and up to date post! As I understand it (and after some research), and this doesn't even have an AB# yet. Anyone have a link to the text of the bill? Is it shall issue? PS As I understand that you've got connections in this movement, I would like to become more involved. Email me with stuff I could do. I believe I could also have a part in training LEO's and citizens when this thing passes (per what I've seen in other states -- email me for details). EDITED for spelling, clarity, PS, etc....
Link Posted: 11/17/2001 7:47:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Corey: Unfortunately, my Rep. is Mark Pocan (D) and Senator is Fred Risser (D). I'll still write to them but I don't expect much progress. I'll also get friends and family to write from all over the state.
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You're absolutely right. Fred Risser won't go. I've written him a few times about this (he's one of my reps also) and he is definitely against. I'd be interested to see what he says to you though. Write him anyway, it's the only way that he'll know there are people in his district that want CCW. Otherwise he'll continue to live in his little fantasy land.
As I understand it (and after some research), and this doesn't even have an AB# yet. Anyone have a link to the text of the bill? Is it shall issue?
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The way it is proposed is similar to the Florida CCW law. It will be shall issue but individual Sherrifs may opt out. If your county Sherrif opts out, you may go to any other county that will license and they must issue one to you if you qualify. I have asked Sen. Zien for a copy of the bill and haven't gotten a return yet. I think he's sending it snail mail. Here is an interesting (though a little dated) link to a pro-Wisconsin CCW webpage. [url]http://home.wi.rr.com/ccw4wi/ppa_faqs.html[/url] The home page to the above link: [url]http://home.wi.rr.com/ccw4wi/[/url]
PS As I understand that you've got connections in this movement, I would like to become more involved.
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Fantastic! I don't know if you can call it "connections" [:)]but I am a volunteer member of the WCCA (Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association [url]http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/[/url] ). We could use some help trying to get people to write their reps. Also if you'd like to voluteer to hand out flyers at a gun show that would be great. Email info@wisconsinconcealedcarry.com and ask how you can help. If you want I can also give you a direct contact name in an email. About the best thing you can do to become involved is to talk to people and promote the benefits of CCW. Encourage people to write their reps - more than once. When you write, try to have a dialog with them about it and don't fly off the handle when they don't agree with you. I know it's tuff but it's the only way to get laws passed. When (not if) you write, include the reasons that you feel CCW in Wisconsin will benefit the community. Then ask them what their position is and ask for a reply. I write to a lot of reps, most of which aren't even close to my district and don't get replies from many of them. If you don't get a reply from YOUR reps, continue to write (the same letter) until they reply. It's their job to listen to you!
Link Posted: 11/17/2001 12:16:10 PM EDT
A couple of letters came in the mail today. The first from Fred A. Risser, President of the Wisconsin State Senate.
Thank you for contacting my office regardgin your suppost for legislation that would allow citizens of Wisconsin to carry concealed weapons. I have alway opposed the carrying of concealed weapons by the general public. Existing law only allows fo police officers to carry concealed weapons and I am not in favor of expanding this law to include the general public. I hope this information has been helpful. Most Sincerely, FRED A. RISSER President Wisconsin State Senate.
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I figured this much from him. I'm going to write to ask what his reasoning is behind his position. The next letter came from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala.
Thank you for sending me an e-mail message to share your support for legislation that would allow Wisconsin residents to carry a concealed weapon. In the days since the September 11th attacks on America, some individuals believe that they would be better able to ensure their safety by carrying a concealed weapon. As Senate Majority Leader, I believe the training our law enforcement and military personnel receivemake them the best resource for responding to potential crime scenes or terrorist incidents. Furthermore, law enforcement personnel have consistently opposed conceal and carry legislation in Wisconsin. Once again, thank you for sending me an e-mail message. Sincerely, CHUCK CHVALA Senate Majority Leader 16th Senate District
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An interesting letter, considering I didn't ask him anything about terrorism or law enforcement. I think I'll write him and tell him that the Sherrif in Milwaukee is pro-CCW and see what he says. I don't want to be the only guy in Wisconsin writing to these people. [Size=6]HELP![/Size=6]
Link Posted: 11/17/2001 6:24:58 PM EDT
I'll get something out next week. Any suggested (i.e., concise) sample letter? My outline sketch is looking like it would turn into a 12 page letter. I'm really trying to cram EVERYTHING that I can into it but don't want it to be unreadably long (even for the interns who will inevitably read it). I'd like to end with something to the effect of (draft version):
Senator Chvala thinks that crime in WI is not bad enough for us to need CCW for protection, yet everday WI citizens are robbed, beaten, sexually assaulted and even killed by strangers. Are you saying that it is acceptable for these few people to be victimized?
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I agree with you Muad_Dib, I want any explanation!! Don't just feed me a form letter with some opinions, tell me why it is acceptable that a certain (small) percentage of our citizens are victims of violent crimes and they can't defend themselves? I think I'm getting closer to my closing line....
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 8:59:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Corey: Any suggested (i.e., concise) sample letter? My outline sketch is looking like it would turn into a 12 page letter.
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My goal is to get them to think about this issue for a much longer time. My initial letters just say:
It has come to my attention that Rep. Scott Gunderson and State Senator Dave Zien have announced the reintroduction of their Personal Protection Act "LRB 1086". I ardently feel that law abiding citizens should be guaranteed the ability to defend themselves and their fellow citizens from any evil that may threaten their lives. Most states already allow this form of self-defense. Forty-four states allow some form of concealed carry for self-defense. Thirty-three of those states, representing 54% of the U.S. population, allow a right to carry similar to the Wisconsin proposal or even less restrictive. Vermont allows the right to carry without a license. I strongly encourage you to not only support this legislation, but to sign on as a co-sponsor. I am very interested in your position on individual self-defense and how this bill will help save lives. Please let me know how you stand on this issue and if you will support the Bill offered by Senator Zien and Rep. Gunderson.
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The intent is to figure out what their position is. After I know what they think, I'm drafting further letters to educate them on the benefits of CCW. I want them to think about CCW in Wisconsin every week. Every week I want them to hear from me that it is a good thing and that more than half of the population of the country feels the same way. I'm trying to start a dialog with them so that they have to really research the issue if they want to disagree with me. I know that if they actually look at the facts, they'll see that CCW benefits the community. I know that one simple letter (no matter how detailed) just won't get them to really think about the issue.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 4:40:36 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 12:34:53 PM EDT
bump Rep. Jeff Plale is on the fence. Rep. Jeff Fitzgerald sent me an email saying he supports the bill as it is offered.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:18:19 AM EDT
Here is some boilerplate that I often send to reporters who are covering the issue of concealed carry: ---snip--- Perhaps the most comprehensive work on the issue of citizens carrying concealed firearms has been performed by John R. Lott, Jr. and David Mustard in 1997. Their study is available on the web at: http://[url]www.journals.uchicago.edu/JLS/lott.pdf[/url] and I have also attached it to this email message. Their findings: That allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms has resulted in lower crime in states and counties where such laws have been adopted. As you might imagine, their findings have generated much controversy. A web page nicely sums up and has links to the various criticisms of their research, as well as rebuttal to the criticism: http://[url]www.best.com/~ddfr/Lott_v_Teret/Lott_Mustard_Controversy.html[/url]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:23:57 AM EDT
Waukesha County Sheriff William Kruziki said he saw no problem with the proposal. "In the long run, it would help because people would be trained, and you'd have some local control over it," Kruziki said. "Forty-four states have it. It's time to get with the times."
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I have a feeling the Sherrif wouldn't be against anything that set him up to be in control.
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib: Black said he felt even the authors of the bill are not confident in its results. "I don't think the authors themselves think this is a good idea," Black said. "They would prohibit concealed weapons in the state Capitol. The fact that they want concealed weapons, but not where they work, shows they are not in full support. If they think concealed weapons will increase security, why wouldn't they want them in the Capitol?"
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Good question. These guys (politicians) always want to exempt themselves.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 6:48:43 AM EDT
New news at [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=76444[/url]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:42:18 AM EDT
btt
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