you may want to check where your money that you ptu into the collection plates goes!


[url]umns.umc.org/backgrounders/guncontrol.html[/url]

Very true...if you really wanna get disgusted, just cruise around this website [url]umns.umc.org[/url]

It holds such gems as


and

I quit the United Methodist Church back in 1985 because of their support for Danny Ortega and their stand on firearms.

Don't miss 'em a bit.

Just got this E-mail

Hi Garand Shooter, I read your post and was blown away by the whole thing.  I'm
not a member of ar15 but read the forums religiously.  I was raised Methodist
(baptized and confirmed), but this is way out of line.  So I decided to send the
UMC a note in response to their post.  Since I'm at work, I don't have the
original e-mail I sent them, but it was more or less telling them that I was
disappointed by all of this and surprisingly they responded back.  This is what
they had to say about gun control ....


The United Methodist Church probably has many official positions with which you
disagree but throughout its history the Wesleyan movement has been involved in
what you call "politics".  Wesley frequently spoke out against such things as
child labor and slavery, accepted practices in his day.  The Methodist
movement's mission, according to Wesley, was to spread "scriptural holiness
across the land."  This meant changing societal attitudes and beliefs. The official position of the United Methodist Church on gun control is consistent
with the desires of a majority of Americans concerning --- including many police
departments and law enforcement agencies.  Delegates to the General Conference
also believe the church's position is  consistent with the will of God for our
time.  Christians have always been proponents of peace. Jesus himself was the
"Prince of Peace." As a United Methodist, you should know that we do not require
our members accept every position on social matters.  Positions are intended to
be prayerfully considered by members. I suggest you get a copy of the United
Methodist Book of Discipline and read the Social Principles.  They also appear
in the Book of Resolutions.  Both books are revised every four years following
the General Conference, a delegated body of clergy and lay people from around
the world, the only body that make official policy for the denomination.  

(cont)


This is what I resent them after reading their reply.  
Listen, I'm not a proponent of violence, or slavery, I just believe that the
church's place in the world is not in politics.  I doubt very seriously that
John Wesley would be in favor of the UMC spending people's hard earned money
fighting battles (unrelated to religion or peace for that matter) on capitol
hill.  I know I gave money because I thought it was going to a good cause, like
feeding the hungry, or to help the church with funding to gather more believers,
not to try and undermine MY constitutional rights as an American citizen! The
UMC's ONLY mission in society should be spreading the word of Jesus Christ and
promoting Christianity.  Yes, Jesus was the "prince of peace", but even in
biblical times people had to take measures to protect themselves and their
families, because the government (back then as well as today) couldn't protect
families against tyrants.  Are you suggesting that anyone who has handguns or
firearms doesn't want or support peace?  This belief that the government knows how to protect Americans better than the citizens themselves is ludicrous.  How
about airline pilots, are you against them having a handgun in the cockpit?  Why
wouldn't you be.  I mean, they are only trying to protect the innocent (like you
and me) from terrorist.  What makes a pilot and passengers more important that
it's ok to protect themselves, but a family cannot?  Most gun owners collect
guns for hobby, not to rob the local Circle K.  

"The official position of the United Methodist Church on gun control is
consistent with the desires of a majority of Americans concerning"  

This is the typical (weak and factually unsupported) anti - gun propaganda I
guessed you would try to justify your stance by.  If your statement were true,
we wouldn't be having this conversation, because America would have already been
disarmed.  The fact of the matter is, that statement you made is no more than
wishful thinking.  FACT: every country that has disarmed their citizens has seen a dramatic increase in violent crimes (reason: the criminals will ALWAYS have
access to weapons).  FACT: handgun sales have risen exponentially since the
September 11th attacks (reason: people want to be able to protect themselves now
more than ever).  Even anti - gun legislators are arming themselves for personal
security.  And they HAVE that right to do so.  Which brings me to the September
11th attacks, those terrorist used nothing more than box cutters, does this mean
we are going to have to try and "ban" box cutters from the citizens of this
country?  No, because it really didn't matter what tool the terrorist were
using, whether it be a box cutter or a handgun, their mission was to kill.  

(cont)

I understand the UMC is trying to promote peace, and I want nothing more than
that myself, but the realism is that there has never been peace since that day
in the Garden of Eden.  I've said all of that to say, that peace comes through the Lord, not from banning firearms.  I would advise you guys to think long and
hard before making such an audacious move as putting anymore political agenda on
your website.  Those things should be put in small fine print somewhere
unnoticeable to law abiding gun owning Christians like myself.

I'm curious of the response to this e-mail so please reply back with any more
statements.


Thank You

Since I'm not a member, I can't post anything on ar15, but if you would, I would
appreciate you posting this on your thread.

Thanks,
glx1747