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Posted: 11/10/2001 3:33:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2001 3:33:40 PM EDT by libertyof76]
Excellent article discussing many different questions behind the Sept 11 attacks and the response to them. It is directed at libertarians, but it contains a lot of good points that many should read. Whoops! Forgot the link: [url]http://www.fff.org/comment/ed1101a.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 3:53:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 4:25:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:It seems to me, after reading the latest issue of Liberty Magazine, that Libertarians would have never supported WWII either.
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Yeah, probably. I know I don't. Many reasons for that: Not our fight, FDR goaded Japan into attacking us, Hitler wouldn't have arising if we didn't get involved in WWI, etc.
While quite rightly concerned with potential losses of our liberties, Libertarians in general seem to be unable to offer any realistic, constructive alternatives to our current military actions.
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That's a good point. And the reason that is, is because we wouldn't have even GOTTEN into this mess in the first place. Some do offer alternatives anyway, its just that most people get so infuriated over our other ideas that the don't see them. The basic consensus is that the gov't needs to present evidence that points to those who helped these terrorists out, then if it is a country, have Congress declare war on them, or if it is a person issue letters of marque and reprisals. Punish ONLY those who helped out, and not innocent people.
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 5:26:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2001 5:24:25 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Yeah, probably. I know I don't. Many reasons for that: Not our fight, FDR goaded Japan into attacking us, Hitler wouldn't have arising if we didn't get involved in WWI, etc.
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So, it was not our fight when Hitler and his minions were murdering thousands of people daily and the Japanese were doing the same. Remember Auswhitz and the Rape of Nanking? Oh, that's right, they were only Jews and Chinese, respectively. As for FDR goading the Japanese, he merely cut off their supply of resources needed to wage war. We don't have the right to decide who gets our products? As for our involvement in WWI, I would rather fight them over there than over here. It was the treaty of Versailles that helped Hitler rise to power and we never ratified that.
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 6:21:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2001 6:15:45 PM EDT by trickshot]
No war has ever solved any problems for very long, that's why libertarians always suggest we look for different approaches--it's just so obvious that wars never resolve anything, but a lot of people do suffer and die. Everyone holds up WWII has the "just" war. FDR did all he could to get the US involved in order to pursue his social agenda. He was no better than Stalin. America hasn't been right since the Civil War went to the North. The biggest beef I have about the current war is that it is like VietNam--Congress has not officially declared war, but has allowed the executive branch dictatorial leeway. The destruction of civil liberties is taking place at blinding speed--Ashcroft has just about nullifed the 6th Amendment now. The Patriot Act, which most of our reps didn't even read, has gutted the 4th Amendment. The 1st is only an illusion--try speaking out against the war right now. The 2nd isn't faring any better. The war looks to me like a big dog and pony show for the American people. There will be no real resolution, no victory over terrorism. Terrorism has been around as long as humanity. You can't destroy freedom in the name of preserving it, even after what took place on Sept. 11. I beg to differ with you--libertarians have been offering lots of good, workable solutions to lots of different problems, and few have ever heeded the advice. The sanest, most rational voices are shouted down by emotional (and often very leftist) agendas.
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 6:47:06 PM EDT
It's moronic bullshit like this that keeps me from seriously entertaining supporting the Libertarian Party. Basically, all reasonable libertarians defected to the GOP during the Reagan era, leaving nothing but whackos.
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 10:15:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:So, it was not our fight when Hitler and his minions were murdering thousands of people daily and the Japanese were doing the same. Remember Auswhitz and the Rape of Nanking? Oh, that's right, they were only Jews and Chinese, respectively.
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No, it was not our fight. I feel deeply sorry for them, but we are not the worlds policemen.
As for FDR goading the Japanese, he merely cut off their supply of resources needed to wage war. We don't have the right to decide who gets our products?
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It wasn't just our products. He helped put in other restrictions on other products. Also, no the President shouldn't decide who gets our products, business should decide
As for our involvement in WWI, I would rather fight them over there than over here.
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The thing of it is, is that the war was at a stalemate when we got involved. It would have ended with no winner, and then no versailles, and then no hitler
It was the treaty of Versailles that helped Hitler rise to power and we never ratified that.
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We helped draft the treaty, and we supported many of the measures of it. doesn't matter if we ratified it or not.
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