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Posted: 11/6/2001 8:14:32 PM EDT
[#1]
[(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)]
[(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] [(:|)] Take us to your leader...... [whacko] |
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Posted: 11/6/2001 8:30:29 PM EDT
[#2]
According to the Sheriff's report, several deputies were positioned outside the Cooper residence to serve a warrant for Aggravated Assault and two counts of endangerment. Cooper had stated numerous times in the past that he would not surrender to law enforcement via his website and shortwave radio. Obviously, law enforcement took him seriously. The showdown began at approximately 12:15 pm local time
Cooper had made it known that he would take action against law enforcement from years back stating, "trespassers will be shot on discovery." He also denied violating any laws during that period as well. Cooper has a history of harassing and threatening local residents with deadly force, according to the report. He was recently charge with aggravated assault and endangerment, as well as wanted by the U.S. Marshall's Service on unrelated felony charges. Cooper had spent the last month challenging the government's claims about what caused the destruction of the World Trade Center on September 11. Most who knew of Cooper all state that he was a hard man to get along with - if at all. His demeanor and attitude was "unfriendly" at best. Although state-sponsored media called Cooper a "national militia leader", no one has yet to come forward who was under his command, nor has anyone to this point come forward to claim his 'militia rank'. None of those who knew Cooper and spoke to Sierra Times wanted to go on the record, but the best statement was, "he was a son-of a bitch, but he was our son-of-a bitch" According to his webmaster, "It appears at this time to be totally unrelated to the disputes he had with the federal government." There were no federal agents involved with the gunfight. For those of you too lazy to click on the link, a few select lines. The nerve of those officers, to try to serve a warrant, signed by a Judge, on a suspect, who endangered other people. We we all know warrants are listed in the 4th Amendment. I like the fact that several of you can ignore most of the story and then say JBT's, JBT's JBT's...........Where does them v. us come from again? It would seem that the Deputies tried everything reasonable to arrest him. No dynamic entry at 0300, not firing until fired upon, after Cooper was actively trying to evade arrest. Pick your heroes with more care, they reflect on you. |
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Posted: 11/6/2001 8:49:16 PM EDT
[#3]
There were no JBT's in sight. No federal involvement at all. This was a arrest on a local warrent for threatining a local for being too near his property and "spying" on him.
The Apache County Sheriff deliberately did not call for the Feds, and their spokesman said so on camera, "We did not want a Waco or Ruby Ridge here". They also added that they incident mentioned in the warrent happened some 2 months ago, in the interval they had placed him under survailance while planing a way to arrest him. The result was the arrest attempt this morning. They succeded in drawing him out by staging a repeat of the incident he had the warrent out for, parking on the public way outside his property. When he got into his truck and drove down his hill (you should see this guys house and property, I dont know how a guy in self imposed house arrest could afford the property he had) the SWAT team surrounded his house to prevent him from getting to his long guns. He tried to shoot his way in, shot one deputy in the head, and was dropped. This was a almost perfect takedown- except for the one officer getting shot, however that was, I beleve due to the combination of a healthy dose of bad luck and the fact that Apache county is not exactly a hotbed of violence. They havent had a officer involved shooting in a good long while involving a local and that caused them to hesitate just a split second too long. Even so someone should show this to the Feds and explaine to them "See, this is how you do it". No need to drive a tank through someones house or burn it down with flammable tear gas. |
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Posted: 11/6/2001 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#4]
OK, so here's the real joner about this ultimately tragic tale (after all, one man, albeit wacky, is dead, and another is apparently paralyzed). Cooper was probably not, at the core, a criminal-minded person. He was living in a delusional state, and his delusional state caused him to act out, in public, in a potentially violent and reckless manner. The man was in need of psychiatric treatment, not incarceration. This event troubles me particularly because I have a sister-in-law that has gone off the deep end. As it stands now, she must face criminal charges for assault on a police officer, an act that she knowingly committed, but under the influence of a psychotic episode. Certainly she should face this charge as a rational adult, but first she should receive appropriate treatment for her illness. Only then can any sentence have any effect; until then it will just feed her paranoia.
Cooper wrote some compelling fiction in his time, and was no doubt a very clever and creative guy. But it would seem that his interests led to his most unfortunate demise. He will be remembered not for his years of creative output but for dying in an unnecessary shootout with the law. A real shame. Philbert Spreading thick black soot all over the Midwest |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:18:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: This guy sounds like a nut. He had a choice to surrender peacefully and chose otherwise. I have no sympathy for him at all. I am sorry you feel this way.. There are many in this country that would NOT surrender peacfully, or otherwise, if they felt they were unjustly charged.. (myself included) |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:25:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: This guy sounds like a nut. He had a choice to surrender peacefully and chose otherwise. I have no sympathy for him at all. I am sorry you feel this way.. There are many in this country that would NOT surrender peacfully, or otherwise, if they felt they were unjustly charged.. (myself included) Yeah, good thinking, I must've missed the addendum to the Consitution that says No warrant shall issue w/o probable cause....... And the warrant will not be served until the accused agrees he should be arrested. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:26:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Cooper was probably not, at the core, a criminal-minded person. He was living in a delusional state, and his delusional state caused him to act out, in public, in a potentially violent and reckless manner. The man was in need of psychiatric treatment, not incarceration. That might be true, but would Cooper have been any more cooperative if the deputies had been trying to institutionalize him instead of trying to arrest him? |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 5:20:28 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: This guy sounds like a nut. He had a choice to surrender peacefully and chose otherwise. I have no sympathy for him at all. I am sorry you feel this way.. There are many in this country that would NOT surrender peacfully, or otherwise, if they felt they were unjustly charged.. (myself included) If you feel that you are unjustly accused, then take it to court. You don't need to shoot it out with LEO's. How does dying prove your innocence? |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:07:34 AM EDT
[#9]
I think Bill Cooper knew that he was going to do jail time and felt this would discredit his nutty theories. So...... he chose to go out by "suicide by cop".
DaMan |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:25:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I think Bill Cooper knew that he was going to do jail time and felt this would discredit his nutty theories. So...... he chose to go out by "suicide by cop". DaMan [I]"I think, I think"[/I] ... Justifying LEO actions without facts again [b]DaMan[/b]? ... Your libeling the man it makes it all go away huh? The local witnesses stated that the Sheriffs coaxed him out of his home by masquerading as local drunks (in a borrowed local drunk’s truck no less). He’s had problems with them in the past. … According to your philosophy all “nutty” theorists should be killed? ... Self-proclamating that all “right of center” maybe even "fringe" killed by LEO are ”nutty” makes it's alright? ... at least it keeps the sheep calm. (spl) |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:42:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: [I]"I think, I think"[/I] ... Justifying LEO actions without facts again [b]DaMan[/b]? … According to your philosophy all “nutty” theorists should all be killed? And your self-proclamation that all “right of center” maybe even fringe killed by LEO are ”nutty”. Gee, Winston, there you go again! Attributing things to me that I never said. Go back and re-read my last post. Nothing in there advocating the killing of all "nutty theorists". But, of course YOU knew that! Here are the FACTS! Cooper had an arrest warrant out for him. LEOs tried to effect an arrest and Cooper resisted with deadly force. Cooper was then killed..... end of story. Cooper knew that if he went out like this he would be a martyr for the "tin foil hat" brigade. Guess he was right! DaMan |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:59:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Cooper was probably not, at the core, a criminal-minded person. He was living in a delusional state, and his delusional state caused him to act out, in public, in a potentially violent and reckless manner. The man was in need of psychiatric treatment, not incarceration. That might be true, but would Cooper have been any more cooperative if the deputies had been trying to institutionalize him instead of trying to arrest him? Well, of course not, and that is exactly the point we are at with my sister-in-law. We are working very hard and closely with local law enforcement, the District Attorney, her court-appointed defense attorney, public and private mental health professionals, our own attorney and most importantly my wife's family to avert a situation like Mr. Cooper's in Arizona. All parties concerned recognize that her case is a mental health issue first, and a criminal action issue second. I merely suggest that in cases of severly deluded individuals, reasonable efforts can be made to reach those persons through mental health channels in conjunction with criminal prosecutors. I am certain that the very last thing those deputies wanted was to get into a shoot-out with a high-profile citizen, not to mention an ultimately deadly shoot-out. The whole episode is bad all around, and I feel badly for all involved. Thanks for your comment. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 8:48:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Rest in peace, William Cooper. You were at least a man of passion who loved freedom. Some criticize your ideas and discount you as "looney". Little do they know what is really going on in this country. The appearance of paranoia is often the appearance of someone who has just found out what is really going on. We are in a desperate fight for the survival of freedom. I suppose our forefathers must have been "looney" too. At least no one even mentions them or their ideas anymore....like liberty, freedom and the dignity of every individual. The hatred of tyranny and greedy leaders. Bill Cooper for whatever else believed in these ideals. Rest in peace, William Cooper. Da Man....you pewrson of no worth....go learn what price has been paid for freedom....maybe stand in the middle of Arlington Cemetery for awhile...maybe next to the graves of my Uncle and brother.
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:29:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Rest in peace, William Cooper. You were at least a man of passion who loved freedom. Some criticize your ideas and discount you as "looney". Little do they know what is really going on in this country. The appearance of paranoia is often the appearance of someone who has just found out what is really going on. We are in a desperate fight for the survival of freedom. I suppose our forefathers must have been "looney" too. At least no one even mentions them or their ideas anymore....like liberty, freedom and the dignity of every individual. The hatred of tyranny and greedy leaders. Bill Cooper for whatever else believed in these ideals. Rest in peace, William Cooper. Da Man....you pewrson of no worth....go learn what price has been paid for freedom.... maybe stand in the middle of Arlington Cemetery for awhile...maybe next to the graves of my Uncle and brother. Don't get pissy because someone on this site disagrees with you assesment of a person, just remember everytime you post the JBT crap you are doing the exact same thing to someone else. FWIW I don't agree with how Cooper has been characterized, good or bad I don't really have any info either way. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:56:15 AM EDT
[#15]
LTVN68, William Cooper exposed NOTHING! His mad and misguided rantings about the Illuminatti, the Free Masonry, and Mystery Babylon did NOTHING except discredit patriotiotic Americans who are actually trying to get to the bottom of things and turn the country around.
He provided the Left with a "poster child" of the far right "tinfoil hat lunatic fringe". He made it much easier for the Left to "slime" patriotic Americans and label them nutcases. Yes, may that poor nut rest in peace. But he was no martyr. Just a poor dillusional guy seeing conspiracies where there were none. DaMan |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 10:34:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: William Cooper's Navy service ended in 1975 with a TS clearance and some job specific special access clearances ......big friggin' deal! Yes, but according to what is being said on the web, he also held a Q clearance. Perhaps the application process is less rigorous for military applicants, but for civilians, they really dig deep into your past. I can tell you that from experience. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 10:52:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Perhaps the application process is less rigorous for military applicants, but for civilians, they really dig deep into your past. I can tell you that from experience. mattja, request a copy of your background investigations under the FOIA. I obtained mine long ago! Check where they sniffled! I think you'll find it amusing! DaMan |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 2:03:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Link to article, Sherriff got it twice to the head with a .45 and he's expected to live. Luck to him.
[url]Http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/breaking/1107cooper07.html[/url] IF it went down as purported, LE response seems more than reasonable. I cant give anyone a pass based solely on their political beliefs. If you act a fool, you get treated as one. Sure wish it would have been resolved without difficulty. Luck Alac |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 3:30:57 PM EDT
[#19]
If an moron turns evil and shoots a uniformed Deputy Sheriff attempting to serve an arrest warrant, and continues to resist arrest with deadly force, he deserves to die, period. They apparently lured him out of his little bunker to minimize the dangers in executing the warrant, but the bad guy decided to fight to the death. Cooper's actions dictated the outcome. For all intents, Cooper committed suicide.
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Posted: 11/7/2001 3:38:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: ... lured him out of his little bunker ... actually, he lived in a nice home on a hill overlooking Eagar. ... uniformed Deputy Sheriff ... and they lured him out masquerading as local drunks / hoodlums by starting a ruckus. We'll see |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 3:57:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: ...I suppose our forefathers must have been "looney" too. ... Only the ones that believed in UFOs [(:|)] [whacko] |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:03:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Actually Im afraid they treated him with to little regard for their own safety. I have nothing to back this up, except the local sherrifs reluctance to arrest him previous and the manner in which they attempted coax him out. They sure seemed hesitent. If they wanted him dead, he comes out with a gun, drop him, case closed. They didnt try to keep him at arms length.
Local LE sure seemed to be in Cooper's corner and it may have got one of them dead. Respect their attempt but the result was asanine. Aint hindsight grand. They probably wanted this no more than anyone else. Luck Alac |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:42:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Officers kill militia voice; deputy shot Broadcaster was wanted man By Mark Shaffer The Arizona Republic Nov. 07, 2001 12:00:00 EAGAR - One of the country's most influential militia radio broadcasters was killed early Tuesday in a hail of gunfire when law officers tried to arrest him on a warrant accusing him of aggravated assault. William Milton Cooper, 58, whose apocalyptic, constitutionalist shortwave radio programs were a major influence on Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, was shot to death after Cooper shot and critically wounded an Apache County sheriff's deputy who had tried to arrest him, officers said. The officer, Robert Marinez, 40, was listed in critical condition at St Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center in Phoenix. [red]Apache County Sheriff Brian Hounshell said Marinez, a former Marine and Persian Gulf War veteran, was shot twice in the head by what was believed to be a .45-caliber pistol. The officer was expected to survive, Hounshell said, after undergoing two hours of surgery Tuesday morning. Marinez's skull was fractured, and surgeons removed bone fragments from near his brain, the sheriff said.[/red] Cooper had been indicted on federal charges of failing to pay taxes from 1992 to 1994 and became a fugitive after failing to appear for a U.S. District Court hearing in Phoenix three years ago. Scott Garms, Eagar's police chief, said he had urged federal law officers to stay away from Cooper's two-story compound, high on a mesa overlooking Round Valley, because militia group members do not recognize the legitimacy of federal law officers. "We certainly didn't want to make him a martyr," Garms said. [i]The police chief said the effort to arrest Cooper became a local law enforcement matter in July after [red]Cooper ordered a local man to leave land that Cooper did not own atop the mesa and then followed the man about two miles to his home.[/red] (so a "a patriot" gets to take over his neighbors land and chase his neighbors with a gun off public streets into their homes, huh LTVN?-ArmdLbrl). Cooper then pulled a gun and pointed it at the man's face, Garms said. That resulted in a warrant for Cooper's arrest.[/i] Seventeen officers were involved in the operation, which started at 11:40 p.m. Monday, Garms and Hounshell said. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 4:43:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Garms said a group of undercover officers in a pickup truck pretended to be "people just acting normal up there at night" in a ruse to draw Cooper out of his house to [red]adjoining property 200 yards away[/red]([i]not his property!!-ArmdLbrl[/i]). But Cooper surprised the officers by driving, not walking, to them, and he never left the vehicle during a verbal altercation. During that confrontation, a second undercover police vehicle [red]drove to Cooper's property line and blocked the road[/red], Garms said ([i]again not on his property!!-ArmdLbrl[/i]). But on the way back to his house, Cooper drove off the side of the road and tried to run over sheriff's Sgt. Steve Brown, who dived out of the way, Hounshell said. Cooper then parked his vehicle in front of his house, and Marinez followed him toward his front door while admonishing him to surrender, Hounshell said. Near the door, Cooper turned and fired an undetermined number of rounds at Marinez, who was wearing a bulletproof vest but no helmet, Hounshell said, adding that officers had not seen Cooper's handgun before he fired it. At that point, another sheriff's deputy who had been at the side of Cooper's home, approached Cooper and opened fire. Hounshell said he did not know where or how many times Cooper was struck, saying a state Department of Public Safety shooting-review team had been dispatched to the site. Hounshell declined to identify the officer. Cooper had said numerous times on his radio show, Hour of the Time, and posted on his Web site, that he had been under siege by "Nazi jackbooted thugs." He also had solicited donations for what he said was his fight against the U.S. government, which he said was responsible for the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. "He had vowed that he would not be taken alive," said Tom McCombs, a spokesman for the U.S. Marshal's Service in Phoenix. Garms said Cooper's radio show had been off the air for about a month because of a shortage of money. But in one of his last programs, Garms said, Cooper had accused the federal government of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in New York City. Glenn Jacobs, a Round Valley newspaper publisher and friend of Cooper, said he didn't think the police operation was unjustified. [red]"I think Bill just went nuts. He was looking for martyrdom anyway and swore he would never surrender," Jacobs said. "They had him dead to rights on the aggravated assault."[/red] Jacobs also said that if the sheriff's deputies had allowed Cooper to enter his house, "they would have had a bloodbath on their hands." "He kept an AK-47 just inside his front door by a magazine rack," Jacobs said. A spokesman for a group that tracks militias said the shooting wasn't surprising given Cooper's history. In addition to his show, he was known within the militia movement for an influential book called Behold a Pale Horse, in which he wrote about global elites and conspiracies. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:23:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Its interesting to see the posts divided along two basic lines. Leos supporting the shooting,civilians questioning the Police action as entrapment.Why is that? Personnally I give absolutly no merit to the argument that local forces were used instead of Feds. All local boys will suck up to Feds. Its like being in the minor leagues when the major league scouts come around.A man was shot. there needs to be a Grand Jury.
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Posted: 11/7/2001 6:41:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Bull. All bull. He probably went out to get a bunch of "drunks" off his property and they tried to jump him. So, naturally, he shot at them in self defense. The whole story sounds a little sketchy to me. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 7:01:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Its interesting to see the posts divided along two basic lines. Leos supporting the shooting,civilians questioning the Police action as entrapment.Why is that? Personnally I give absolutly no merit to the argument that local forces were used instead of Feds. All local boys will suck up to Feds. Its like being in the minor leagues when the major league scouts come around. A man was shot. there needs to be a Grand Jury. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 7:03:45 PM EDT
[#28]
....and the LEO said, "Can't wait to shoot me a civilian!! You know they don't prosecute you for that sort of thing!"
Well, they used to. Revolutions are made of such attitudes. LT Pitts |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 7:12:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Why are you so agitated , Oly? Why so defensive?
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Posted: 11/7/2001 7:18:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Theres not anyone close to him blaming the cops. Not one. Read his web page, comments of friends in the article posted above, and Michele's comments above that. Folks, this one was righteous. Regrettable in every way, but not at abusive.
Luck Alac |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 7:24:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Why are you so agitated , Oly? Why so defensive? rats, i was going for offensive [;)] I'm not agitated. I do like though that several have posted stuff about tresspassing or don't know why Cooper was being arrested, when it is explained in the links. Selective comprehension. If I was agitated it would be because of how several of you have devalued Marinez. He was(I know once a Marine always a Marine) a US Marine and served in a war for this country. On the face the actions of LE seem reasonable. He deserves to be treated fairly also. If you've seen my posts you'll also notice that I didn't cast dispersions on Cooper. Some others have, but it started in response to the usual JBT comments. I think that it is valid to look at Cooper's state of mind and LE actions during this, recognizing the limitations of our information. I don't think name calling or character assasination is called for however. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 8:51:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: ....and the LEO said, "Can't wait to shoot me a civilian!! You know they don't prosecute you for that sort of thing!" Well, they used to. Revolutions are made of such attitudes. LT Pitts [size=6]The police chief said the effort to arrest Cooper became a local law enforcement matter in July after Cooper ordered a local man to leave land that Cooper did not own atop the mesa and then followed the man about two miles to his home. ([i]so a "a patriot" gets to take over his neighbors land and chase his neighbors with a gun off public streets into their homes, huh LTVN?-ArmdLbrl[/i]). Cooper then pulled a gun and pointed it at the man's face, Garms said. That resulted in a warrant for Cooper's arrest.[/size=6] I did this for LTVN 68, he was obvioulsy having trouble reading the small print... He was lucky he picked on one of the few people up there who dont carry guns, or he would have been dead four months ago. Someone tries the shit Cooper pulled on ME they are dead meat. Follow me two miles home and then pull a gun on me... FUCK NO. I WILL shoot you. By the way, I am not aggrivated, I just dislike obvious stupidity... |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:05:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Someone needs to check the rifling on those slugs they pulled from the deputy.
A 58 year old man running, does a double tap in the head, on a SWAT guy carrying a machine gun, and no ballistic helmet...YAH RIGHT!! I saw an interview with a neighbor, she said he had some bada** dogs, yet the SWAT team had advanced on his home and he was not alerted by his dogs. If all the statements are being made by the LEOs, and we have LEOs from other agencies investigating, I would be very very suspicious of their findings. ------------------------------------------------ Reading the majestytwelve.com site, sure makes me wonder. Would anyone disagree with his comments about the mass media, and the anti-American propaganda they have been spewing for the last 40 years. Would someone go and check out the lunar lander, take a tape measure and measure that thing and see if a man wearing a space suit will fit through the door. I don't believe we have walked on the moon... just a gut feeling. Who is being blamed for the WTC attack, and what is the major bio threat we have been dealing with these last few weeks. I haven't believed in space aliens for years, his statements parrallel my thoughts on this subject. The George Bush involvement in drugs, is plausible. He is the only person in America, who doesn't remember what he was doing when JFK was shot. We already know that most of our politicians are scumbags, and their cooperation in anti American legislation, has always left me wondering how and why they do as they do. BLACKMAIL is a pretty good incentive. Yah he was crazy, as crazy as the events of the last 2 months. I think the feds are trying to make this guy a martyr, thus creating a marked increase in militia activity. To further erode our liberties. Waterdog |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:05:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Its interesting to see the posts divided along two basic lines. Leos supporting the shooting,civilians questioning the Police action as entrapment.Why is that? Personnally I give absolutly no merit to the argument that local forces were used instead of Feds. All local boys will suck up to Feds. Its like being in the minor leagues when the major league scouts come around.A man was shot. there needs to be a Grand Jury. Thanks for the promotion, I always wanted to be a LEO... will Sheriff Joe take my word for it or will I have to print this out and show him when I show up for duty tomorrow??[;D] Grimshaw, how long have you lived in this state? "All local boys will suck up to the Feds" Here? Yeah, right... [rolleyes] Tell me something, if the Locals were in league with the Feds, how did he stay out of jail for the last three and a half years?? |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:07:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Arizona: Militia leader killed, deputy wounded during attempted arrest.
How the government deals with those it labels" Right Wing Extremists" needs to be seriously analyzed. Just what militia was this guy the leader of? Wonder too if local LE, in this instance, even anticipated that something like this could result - AS THEY PLANNED THEIR OPERATION? Why does it appear to me that the primary fuction of LE is not to protect and serve CITIZENS, but to serve government and protect government from it's CITIZENS. Any one else concerned about this? RICJOS2 |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Arizona: Militia leader killed, deputy wounded during attempted arrest. How the government deals with those it labels" Right Wing Extremists" needs to be seriously analyzed. Just what militia was this guy the leader of? Wonder too if local LE, in this instance, even anticipated that something like this could result - AS THEY PLANNED THEIR OPERATION? Why does it appear to me that the primary fuction of LE is not to protect and serve CITIZENS, but to serve government and protect government from it's CITIZENS. Any one else concerned about this? RICJOS2 Did you bother to read any of the rest of the posts on this thread at all? Do you have any idea at all of what Apache county is like? Cooper had a Federal arrest warrent for income tax evasion out on him for the last 3 and a half years. Why was he still free? Because the local LEO's would not cooperate on any plan to arrest him. Their officer is in the hospital because he knew Cooper and didnt WANT to shoot him. Apache County deputies dont have Fritz's cause they cant AFFORD them. I think the county has all of 15,000 people in it and its the size of Delaware. Their "Tactical Team" are the guys who shelled out their own money to buy AR's and MP5's... they are as rural and small town as you can find anywhere in this country anymore. |
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Posted: 11/7/2001 9:28:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Bull. All bull. He probably went out to get a bunch of "drunks" off his property and they tried to jump him. So, naturally, he shot at them in self defense. The whole story sounds a little sketchy to me. Well they did use a car full of officers imitating drunks to get him out, but they were on public property. The men who "jumped" him and tried to keep him from getting back to the house were in uniform and driving marked police vheicles so there could be no mistaken identity. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 12:42:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps the application process is less rigorous for military applicants, but for civilians, they really dig deep into your past. I can tell you that from experience. mattja, request a copy of your background investigations under the FOIA. I obtained mine long ago! Check where they sniffled! I think you'll find it amusing! DaMan Great. I hope they didn't check with my high school girlfriend who later became a lesbian. That would reflect badly on my manhood I think. he he |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 1:28:43 AM EDT
[#39]
i went to his site, read everything. then i dug a little bit. ive found most of the people he maligns on his site are people he's tried to ally himself with in the past. he has apparently changed his positions many times over the years which not only makes him inconsistant, but unreliable.
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Posted: 11/8/2001 2:50:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Ok,let me get this right.
He was a convicted felon in possession of firearms? He believed in aliens and a conspiracy between them and the US government? He bullied a civilian with a gun on city streets? He preached the overthrow of the US government? He is lucky to have been on the street this long!I would have rushed that bum to the local nuthouse years ago.I wouldn't have pulled that bone head stunt that those deputies pulled though.I would have just waited until he came into town next time and had some guys with shields ambush his ass as he came out of a public bathroom and light him up with an M-27 Tazer and put him in a straight-jacket,viola.Gun toting felon/lunatic off the streets and nobody gets killed.Before some of you guys have a fit remember that it is against the law for a lunatic or a convicted felon to possess a firearm and that is not an unreasonable law in my opinion.If this guy really was a convicted felon who really believed in alien conspiracies then he was double wrong to wrong to be in possession of firearms.If you don't like these laws then just imagine the consequences of lunatics and felons being able to just walk into sportsworld and buy a Glock or Mossberg Jungle Gun and get down to their nonsense with a quickness instaed of having to roam the streets and search the gunshows for an opportunity to get themselves armed illegaly. Just My Opinion SOPMODM4A5 |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 4:53:41 AM EDT
[#41]
He believed in aliens and a conspiracy between them and the US government? At one time he did, but later he decided that the whole UFO phenomenon was just a hoax staged by the government. Just FYI. Before some of you guys have a fit remember that it is against the law for a lunatic or a convicted felon to possess a firearm and that is not an unreasonable law in my opinion. The law doesn't have a blanket prohibition on gun possession by "lunatics"; it requires an involuntary institutionalization or a court finding of incompetence before someone loses his or her RKBA. So as far as I know, even though Cooper might have been nutty as a fruitcake, he was never "legally" insane. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 5:09:36 AM EDT
[#42]
That's not entirely true.
Anyone who poses an unreasonable threat to himself or others is supposed to be arrested and forcibly remanded to state custody immediatly.I'd say that spouting stuff about aliens and threatening people with a loaded firearm on public property constitute such a threat.I'd arrest him and put him in the nuthouse.If after having been remanded to state custody he was questioned about his motives and beliefs they would soon find out that he thought that there was an alien conspiracy and that he was the protector of the human race from an alien plot to take over the earth.That coupled with the multiple armed threats would have gotten him adjudicated a mental defective.On top of that almost every state in the union has state laws against the selling of firearms to "morons,drunkards,lunatics and felons" they are not allowed to posses,purchase or use firearms in MO,OK,KS,AR for sure and I'll bet that most of not all other states have the same laws. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 5:57:53 AM EDT
[#43]
For everyone making fun og the UFO stuff, Cooper was on watch on the Tiru (sp?) a submarine, in the Pacific. He saw a large disc shaped craft enter the water, then reappear. he said nothing until it appeared again. he had several others on watch that saw it also. That it what started his interest. He at the least had the courage to pursue something most of us would have denied to ourselves we saw. The way he was treated by Naval Intelligence led him to believe they knew more about it than they let on, and he followed up on that.
Personally, I'd have to see one myself to believe it, but... Anyway, Cooper had a prosthetic leg. he was running and shooting WITH A DAMNED WOODEN LEG, and he got two headshots on a guy? At night????? Sounds like stink to me. Tim |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 6:15:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Anyway, Cooper had a prosthetic leg. he was running and shooting WITH A DAMNED WOODEN LEG, and he got two headshots on a guy? At night????? Sounds like stink to me. We don't know the details. Perhaps the deputy tried to grab Cooper at the door to his house and Cooper stuck the muzzle in his face and squeezed twice. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 1:05:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Anyway, Cooper had a prosthetic leg. he was running and shooting WITH A DAMNED WOODEN LEG, and he got two headshots on a guy? At night????? Sounds like stink to me. We don't know the details. Perhaps the deputy tried to grab Cooper at the door to his house and Cooper stuck the muzzle in his face and squeezed twice. You guessed corectly Renamed: Cooper then parked his vehicle in front of his house, and Marinez followed him toward his front door while admonishing him to surrender, Hounshell said. Near the door, Cooper turned and fired an undetermined number of rounds at Marinez, who was wearing a bulletproof vest but no helmet, Hounshell said, adding that officers had not seen Cooper's handgun before he fired it. Doesnt say anything about a running suspect. And if you have seen the house on TV his truck is parked within 20 feet of the door. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 7:26:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Don't get me wrong! I still think Cooper was a nut! I still think he brought about his own demise!
But, I read the articles on his website, and I realize that much (95%) of what he posted is the absolute truth! Read it yourself! [url]http://www.williamcooper.com[/url] It's the 5% that makes him sound bizarre! Your thoughts? DaMan |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 7:48:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Its interesting to see the posts divided along two basic lines. Leos supporting the shooting,civilians questioning the Police action as entrapment.Why is that? Personnally I give absolutly no merit to the argument that local forces were used instead of Feds. All local boys will suck up to Feds. Its like being in the minor leagues when the major league scouts come around.A man was shot. there needs to be a Grand Jury. Thanks for the promotion, I always wanted to be a LEO... will Sheriff Joe take my word for it or will I have to print this out and show him when I show up for duty tomorrow??[;D] Grimshaw, how long have you lived in this state? "All local boys will suck up to the Feds" Here? Yeah, right... [rolleyes] Tell me something, if the Locals were in league with the Feds, how did he stay out of jail for the last three and a half years?? How long have I lived in Arizona? It really wouldn't matter. I avoid the Police like every other American citizen with any common sense. I don't think I'll be going to any policeman dances or picnics any time soon! The police in this country have an eroded image with persons of color or economic disadvantage. Its usually the guy that says "Trust me," that requires the most watching. Its usually the guy that has power that will abuse another person to his own personal advantage. Its usually the person that has everything that will take from someone else. Its the strong that kill the weak. When the weak begin to decide for themselves to empower their own lives they become a threat to the powerful and must be stopped because the rich and powerful are standing on the efforts of the poor. Without the pyramid they tumble. The police belong to the powerful. Rarely does the spirit of truth rest on those who exact power over others. |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 8:16:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Reading the majestytwelve.com site, sure makes me wonder. Would anyone disagree with his comments about the mass media, and the anti-American propaganda they have been spewing for the last 40 years. Would someone go and check out the lunar lander, take a tape measure and measure that thing and see if a man wearing a space suit will fit through the door. Waterdog Makes me wonder too- [img]http://williamcooper.com/images/bellpyramid17.jpg[/img] He shows Art Bell's logo, and then proceeds to prove things from this logo thus- [i]Did you know that the sea (mare or Mary) is a symbol of vast numbers of People, the masses in Marxist symbology? Did you notice that the pyramid rises from the sea (People) and dominates the scene as a promise, or savior? Did you know the pyramid missing the capstone represents the Great (unfinished) Work of the Mystery School? Did you know that the Great Work represents social engineering (socialism) working toward the apotheosis of the race (perfected man, sixth root race) as promised to Adam and Eve by Satan, and a New World Order? Did you notice that the name Art Bell straddles the capstone signifying that he is the Light Worker, or Illumined Man, or Master Mason, or Horus, or perfected god-Man, or Savior, who completes the Great Work? Did you notice the Bright Star fallen from heaven just above the capstone? Do you know who or what it represents? Do you see the Thousand Points of Light working in silence behind the veil (clouds) in the heavens. [/i] con't |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 8:18:00 PM EDT
[#49]
and then he continues-
[i]The propaganda attack against the American People continues through movies. In Star Wars Luke Skywalker (Apollo, Horus, Osiris), the SON of a widow (initiate) goes in search of himself (Secret, lost Word, or Great Work). Jedi Knight Darth Vader (Osiris, Sun Father, Apollo, Doctrine, Lucifer, Master of the FORCE [magic] who has gone over to the Darkside (religion, nationalism, superstition) separates the Princess (the title signifies BECOMING) Lea (Isis - Moon - Church) from the Doctrine (illumination). Luke falls in love with Lea and begins a sexless, but spiritual relationship with the Princess. This mystical union produces the child HORUS (falcon headed God) which, in the movie, is personified in the illumination of Luke transforming him into an Adept or Priest (Jedi Knight - Sun Son - Adept - Reincarnated Osiris - Apollo - God - Doctrine). He embarks upon a Quest in the Millenium (saviors always return at the millenium) Falcon (Horus as savior) to rescue Princess Lea which results in a confrontation with Vader who imparts knowledge (Intelligence - Fire) resulting in Luke finding the Holy Grail (Bloodline, Identity, Lost Word, Obelisk, Penis, Creative Force, apotheosis). With this knowledge he succeeds in reuniting (uniting in marriage) the Force (doctrine) with Princess Lea (Church) which reestablishes the Order of Jedi Knights (Congregation - full body of Adepts or Priests - sixth root race - evolved and matured mankind - God Race, Horus) producing chaos, rebellion, and the establishment of the New Dawn on the horizon (Horus Risen), the New Age, the New Atlantis, a New World Order, the socialist utopian world.[/i] continued...if you can stand any more... |
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Posted: 11/8/2001 8:18:44 PM EDT
[#50]
[i]
All names, missions, landing sites, and events in the Apollo Space Program echo the occult metaphors, rituals, and symbology of the Illuminati's secret religion. The most transparent was the faked explosion on the spacecraft Apollo 13, named "Aquarius" (new age) at 1:13 (1313 military time) on April 13, 1970 which was the metaphor for the initiation ceremony involving the death (explosion), placement in the coffin (period of uncertainty of their survival), communion with the spiritual world and the imparting of esoteric knowledge to the candidate (orbit and observation of the moon without physical contact), rebirth of the initiate (solution of problem and repairs), and the raising up (of the Phoenix, the new age of Aquarius) by the grip of the lions paw (reentry and recovery of Apollo 13). 13 is the number of death and rebirth, death and reincarnation, sacrifice, the Phoenix, the Christ (perfected soul imprisoned in matter), and the transition from the old to the new. Another revelation to those who understand the symbolic language of the Illuminati is the hidden meaning of the names of the Space Shuttles, "A Colombian Enterprise to Endeavor for the Discovery of Atlantis... and all Challengers shall be destroyed." [/i] This guy worries me. Does he have anything he writes about correct? Possibly, there are trhings our government lies to us about, sure, but never before have I ever seen anyone implicate everything in the entire world in one vast conspiracy. Brrrr... Juggernaut |
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