I think Toolmakers are Gods. After all they are creators .In times of old didn't people use to own singers and entertainers.Now they try to run the world just because they make movies.Did I say I am a Toolmaker.  

yes, they do

blone bombshell, i'm your man.

There are a lot of smart and handy women  that I know of. It has nothing to do with being "women". Maybe this guy needs to reexamine his prejudices in wording his thread title.
AS for being "fix-it's", etc: cars are getting too complex to work on out in the driveway, things are being designed to be thrown away and replaced, not repaired....overall, while factors like that may discourage tinkering, I think this country still has a lot of people who like to create, tinker and work .

THAT OFFENDS ME!!  If they are unable or unwilling to do the task then OK.  What annoys me is the fact so many look down on me because I make my living with my hands!  They are freezing their ass off in the winter and are glad to have me fix the heat - until it is time to pay up.  My all time favorite was the guy who said "You charge more than I make and I AM AN EXECUTIVE!!"  I asked why he didn't fix it himself and pointed out he was now warm.  You get the drift.  There is far too little respect for those of us who keep the modern machines of society running.  We suck hinde tit in pay scale, get little or no respect.  "If you don't go to college you will never amount to a thing.  You want to have to WORK for a living?"  Makes me want to SPIT!  Wish I could just let 'em suffer but that is how I earn my living and in spite of the guy being an A**hole I feel honor bound to keep his family from suffering because he is a jerk!!

My 24 yo daughter went to college.  Got a beauticians license in High School to support herself if college was not her thing.  She fixes her own stuff, at least to a point.  When she was a kid dad INSISTED she learn to use basic tools and learn very basic mechanical, electrical and electronic skills.  She resisted at the time but has thanked me as an adult.  My mother taught her to cook and do household chores just as she taught me.  (My ex was useless for the most part.) I can do the "women's work" of my household as well as repair the place.  I fail to see why we put males into boxes that say they should learn "men's jobs" and fail to learn how to do the basics of cooking, cleaning, sewing and other valuable skills.  Just as we try to mold our female children to never get grease under their nails or learn any of the skills that are erroneously thought of as "men's things".  Those basic "men's skills" I forced my daughter to learn made her no less feminine or hurt her in any way.  If she can't fix it, at least she has a pretty good idea how it works and why it doesn't.  Has saved her a lot of money and helped her get along in this world.  Isn't that what we owe our kids?

Rant off

Blonde Bombshell:
No where was it stated that men who can do manly skills are stupid. In fact, if you read this thread closely, you would have seen that some men claim to not have *enough* knowledge to say, fix their late model cars.
But, as usual, you merely wanted a platform to wave your bargain basement university classes at them.
This is getting very old and tiresome.
I am certainly not the only one that laughs at your poor grammar and spelling, while reading your claims of superior intellect and education.
Remember a few things:
A) You may be smarter than your associates, but this doesn't make you smarter than everybody.
B) You are very young. You don't know these men. They may be *much* smarter than you. Heck, they know more about guns than you, that's a good start.
C) You are a student. This means you are still learning.
D) The more you brag about how much you "know", and how superior your intellect is, the more insecure it makes you appear.

And finally, if you are so farging brilliant, fix your own damned car!

Hannah, you always get right to the point!  Your hubby is a very lucky man!

Actually, the thread took a little differnt turn than expected and has little to do with my prejudices.

If you read the article the thread is prefaced on, you'd see it was about men adopting products and attitudes tradtionally attributed to women.  

I related the substance of that article to my observation that a lot of the "men" I know don't know squat about skills I see as fundamental to manliness.

As far as my prejudices they are this:  I don't mind that women have useful skills traditionally associated with manliness, but I have little use for men who take to using hair coloring and facial creams traditionally associated with women.

Hannah,

One of the best classes, I took in HS was Agriculture.  We learned the basics of welding, carpentry, animal husbandry, soil evaluation, horticulture and a dozen other skills that would help down on the farm.  BTW, this was a city HS and none of us were farm boys.  Suppose they offer that today?

I still say it's 'cause we like their underwear![devil]

Sancho, were you trying to get on my bad side?  

Nothing wrong with bed liners when you haul stuff all the time, it keeps my bed from getting destroyed before the truck wears out.

Glad to hear that, Hipower. What city and year was this offered? I sure wish they would teach that stuff to more kids these days. Knowledge is power.

Greenville SC, Late 70's.

At the time, I'll admit I thought it was pretty hokey and had to be talked into taking the class, but with the benefit of hindsight, "Ag" was one of the most important classes I ever took.

I am insulted by your claims that I am getting a bargain basement eduaction.. My folks have certainly not spent thousands upon thousands of dollars, since I was little, on education for nothing! I did get the best education possible, in my opinion, in private school for over 14 years, then I decided to go to a public university to meet all different kinds of people.  I do not use my best grammar here because this is just a forum, if you would like me to mail you some of my proper english papers, in which I got A's and B's on, I would be more than happy to. You and others like you just want to find someone to pick on and complain about..That's always my problem that I find to come across with that people tend to be jealous of me and therefore, must continue to insult me for them to feel better about themselves.. There are more important issues going on in this country rather than wasting your energy picking on me..

Much of the SUV market is supported by women because they feel, "more secure" in an SUV; they provide a better view to, "watch out for danger[:0]," because they ride higher. Like so many other things, it's based on an obsessive need for "security". [puke]

Concerning the reference to women, I'm not making any general cast here.

[soapbox]
From a certain point of view, it just seems that the obsession over security (present situation accepted), and the country's great march towards socialism, is being led by [i]some[/i] women. This is being capitalized by others, [i]some[/i] of them men, in order to acquire more power/control for themselves, or simply to see to it that everyone else [i]agrees with them[/i] and [i]does it their way[/i].

Rant over. Master Blaster out.

I believe this is what they call a [img]www.carstickers.com/images/518.gif[/img]  'ing match.

How many Ph.D's does it take to screw in a light bulb???

None.

They pay others to do it for them.


Just joshin' ya man....

This is the type of thing that is wrong with society. I to live in a group of those townhouses purly by my wifes choice not mine. I had my car in my drive way up on the floor jack and i was changing the oil. my neighbor came over and was asking me why i don't take it to a oil shop. i said "I am not lazy and i can do things for my self. i didn't spend 4 years in the marine corps to come out and be dependant on other people to my things that i sould do for my self." he shook his head and walked away last weekend i took my son with me when i went to the local shooting range. a bunch of my neighbors were giving me dirty looks because i had 3 gun shaped hard cases. my son asked me in the car why they looked at us that way and i told him because they are ignorant. and they take freedom for granted. when we got back the one had the nerve to question me about what buisness i have owning firearms i said get off my property now.these are the same people who are raising the next generation of soldiers and i am frightend by what i see!!!

Looking back at the original intention of this thread, I can see that things got a little out of hand.  Granted, there are certain things 'expected' of a man like there are of women.  Things changing the oil, fixing things in the house, etc. were typically a man's job.  Most men didn't care if they had grease under their nails, or if their hair looked pretty.  We were just 'men'. Women, on the other hand, have always been portrayed as vain (before the flames start, I said 'portrayed').  My wife asks everyday, "How do I look?".  Me, I just try to look decent (although she hates it when I wear shorts and flip-flops to Home Depot).  Anyway, I learned early to be self-sufficient.  I rebuilt my first auto engine at 17, always do my own maintenance on 4 vehicles and my Harley.  I do my own work when something breaks, unless it is under warranty.  And yes, I buy and read the service manual.  I hired a contractor to add on to my house.  He went bankrupt, so I had to finish it.  What am I saying?  I am 'expected' to do these things by my wife.  My kids 'expect' me to fix their toys when they break.  As for my wife?  The yard is hers.  She loves to cut the grass, plant the flowers, etc.  I'm just there for the 'grunt' work (digging, cutting high branches, etc.).  The neighbors look at us like we are from another planet.  The guy across the street couldn't even change the tire on his daughter's car.  Whether it be from laziness or lack of knowledge, I don't know.  But I see this more and more in our society.  Granted, there are people who simply do not have the time or may have some disability, or the job may be too dangerous, or do not have the money to buy the proper tools, but many people nowadays are just plain lazy.  

Sorry, I think I went a little off-track here.  All I wanted to say was that certain stereotypes still exist, and many cannot fill those roles, either through laziness or an attitude that says "This type of stuff is beneath me, I'll pay some lowlife to do it."

End of rant.

"Fight Club" struck me as a good depiction of what can happen when society becomes too feminized.

I pretend not to know how to do most things. I am pretty good with my guns, but I like doing that. I prefer not to do the other stuff on my personal time.

I sure there have always been a few like this.  I think a couple of decades ago they were called "goldbricks".

This attitude is part of my point.  Society generally accepts ineptitude feigned or for real.

I can remember situations where dropping dead on the spot would be prefereable to letting my peers know I didn't know how/wasn't willing/couldn't learn to do something.

What's the force behind the change and why should I think the result is good?

Hey now, I didn't buy my shiny new Z-71 to get roached hauling crap.
I bought it so I could...

1. laugh at you people driving 10 MPH during snow storms while i barrel past you at 70 MPH [:D]

2. Pull your wimpy little cars out of the ditch during snow storms for profit . [;D]


and if i put anything in the back its either food, guns or baby sand
(wrapped in movers blankets of course)

DK...
Looking back on what I wrote, I did make it seem that anyone who doesn't do those things are lazy.  I really didn't mean it that way (and apologize if I offended you or others reading this post).  My point on that bit was that we do those things personally and the neighbors look at us like we are crazy.  My neighbors ARE lazy, don't lift a finger to even keep their homes neat, and wait for their checks to come in every month.  That's my neighborhood.  I don't wish to lump everyone in a category such as that, but I guess I did.  Anyway, I do agree with you on your points.  If you do not want to do something, and are perfectly capable, fine.  Pay to have it done.  Just as long as you don't look down on the people doing it for you.  Most yuppies nowadays think they are 'too good' for that kind of work.  I have been in some garages or a shop and have seen that type of attitude, but the shopowner or mechanic takes it in because it is still business.  I myself do things myself for a variety of reasons:  I enjoy it; to save some money; it has to be done and done now (according to my wife, anyway); or I just may not have a choice but to do it myself.  There are a lot of things I wish I can do, and admire the people who can.  Oh, your point about playing with the kids as opposed to changing the oil?  My kids love to help (fetching tools, whatever).  They always ask questions and are learning a valuable skill.  Sometimes they pull their bicycle (or tricycle) out, ask for some tools, and proceed to 'work' on it.  The best was when they jacked up their Power Wheels Jeep with my 3-ton jack and got under it to work on whatever.