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Posted: 11/4/2001 1:45:50 PM EDT
[url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f33104.pdf[/url] People have been saying for a while that the ATF keeps illegal records of Firearms tarnsfers and watches people. I have seen denied repeatedly. Now, here is the proof the ATF is keeping an illegal registry of gunowners.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:57:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:06:58 PM EDT
A recent backround check on a pal showed up firearms he purchased in 85/86..........thats all I got to say about that....
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:47:09 PM EDT
Oh, my son was recently visiting, got on my computer, and ordered items from several firearms related sites via his credit card. A few days later his bank call up, the security dept. They asked if he had ordered items from those sites, as it was not his "normal pattern of buying". So, if the bank has such things tagged... how about our friends in DC???
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:04:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:46:35 PM EDT
The ATF of course.... they have to do something while they gaurd those "evil" assualt rifles to make sure they dont sneek off the racks, unlock themselves then load themselves in thier never ending quest to take over the world.... Thank You ATF for giving someone a job that didnt do well enough in school to get a real one.......
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:00:21 PM EDT
Everyone knows the State of PA keeps illegal records of gun sales. The ATF knows! The FBI knows! The Justice Dept knows! The Govenor knows! (the guy running the Homeland Security Dept) The State Police know! (they know its illegal also) The Newspapers know! (don't care that its illegal) The Citizens know!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 7:08:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 6:39:46 AM EDT
You forgot to add "all of the above" as an option, therefore I cannot answer the poll BrenLover
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:27:16 AM EDT
Just check all of the choices. Then click vote.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:45:41 AM EDT
And you are just now becoming aware of this? It has been the law for quite some time, that if you buy more than one handgun from the same dealer in 5 days he has to report it to the ATF and the Chief State Law Enforcement Agency. You can buy as many long guns as you want, or one handgun and as many long guns as you want. Or you can buy handguns from several dealers and there is no paperwork beyond the standard 4473. Yes it is wrong and it sucks, but it's nothing new. Presumably this is to help catch arms traffickers. Generally , if you want 2 handguns, your FFL will inform you of this and you just spread your purchases over 2 weeks. Then there is no paperwork. If you have to have them now, then the form gets filled out.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:52:22 AM EDT
The Senate has threatened to cut the ATF's budget, I think, if they didn't stop trying to create a national database. Only thing is, they already have one. Start buying guns that scare people, like Class III stuff, and see if you bank tags you. Also, when you put in for a Tax Stamp, they keep those records with probably big red stickers. Get used to it, or fight it by trying to get your Senator off his butt and doing what he was elected to do. Take care, Reed
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:53:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 9:17:09 AM EDT
where was the 'all of the above' option? inherent distrust of government is the specific design of amendments 1 and 2.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 9:18:02 AM EDT
where was the 'all of the above' option? inherent distrust of government is the specific design of amendments 1 and 2.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:05:14 AM EDT
It's a trick question. I say, "if one of them knows, then ALL of them know." Tired of the gun-confiscators' lies. "We don't have any illegal records of gunowners." Communists.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:30:11 AM EDT
I believe they keep records of purchases, but I don't know what those records contain. I may be wrong, but all they know is that you bought a gun. The type and model are not mentioned when they do a background check unless they request the form 4473. Is it a standard practice to do so? Kyle
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 1:56:55 PM EDT
What good is an opinion poll? they are unscientific and dont prove anything.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 2:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2001 2:24:06 PM EDT by SKSseven]
I am not required by any law to turn in form 4473's. The ATF tells dealers to keep them on file for 20 years and keep the entries in our bound books. the only information in my bound book is who I received a gun from when I ordered it and who I disposed of it to. Exp. John Smith - 4473 #123 this way if I ever need to reference it from my bound books I would know I sold a rifle to John Smith and could pull up his 4473 out of my files. Like someone else said the ATF gets none of this information unless they need to trace a gun to a crime, or I go out of business. How they would trace a gun's numbers back to me or run the numbers on your gun if you were ever pulled over, and the officer decided to do it is beyond me. I think when they run those numbers it just comes up if the gun has been reported stolen or not. The only thing I can acutely see the Gov. having records on is when we do a nics check, they say they get rid of that information after 48 hours, however. The nics check does not get that much information off the gun itself either. They ask for name, race, sex, SS # if you choose to give it, and if its a long gun or a hand gun. Maybe you guys know something I don't but I think most of your records are pretty safe. you only thing would really have to worry about is the day the SHTF and they want to confiscate, they would go to all dealers and force a surrender of records. I don't see that happening any time soon. JMHO... [b]Florida Shooters Network Forums[/b] [url]www.floridashootersnetwork.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 6:29:06 PM EDT
The only thing our our side is how bad the goverment information system is. I hear it is virtually impossible for them to find their copy of a 4473. BTW, I just got a letter from my friends, (totally spooky) the BATF, about the new 4473 forms. They also asked me not to sell anything to Aliens.
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 7:31:05 PM EDT
So what? So they have an illegal registry of firearms owners. When the day comes that we start shooting back, they're going to wish that they never crossed the line into absolutism. The people in government fears gun owners. It isn't the Big Brother State--it's the Barely in Control of Anything Anymore State. Get it?
Link Posted: 11/20/2001 9:42:17 PM EDT
every county in NY our "pistol permits" that we need to buy handguns, have every hand gun we buy listed on it
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