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Posted: 11/4/2001 1:40:58 PM EDT
The rants going on on this sight over whether cops are good or bad is a symptom of where our country has gone in the last 40 years. We have removed from our nation its historical sense of true right and wrong and replaced it with essentially no values at all. I never hear the president or any other politician quote the founding fathers or the principles which they gave us to live by. Instead with multi- culturalism it is wrong to say anyones values are better then anyone elses. You want chaos...then without our historic national sense of values...you will have chaos. May I suggest, without regard to race, that America has had the strongest most moral culture in the world. Today, that foundation has been diluted. We have been told America is nothing special and how dare we take pride in our traditional values. From this new wasteland of people who share no unifying value system have come cops who think they are "defenders of the government" rather than servants of the people. We have government employees who believe that they are somehow above the citizens they are to serve.....that the government in fact should have more rights than the people and that the people are merely there to provide the funds to run the government. They further seem to believe that said citizens have no right to complain or assert their rights and that if they do so they should be attacked, jailed or worse. Corruption under these conditions has run rampant. Continually, we see police officers who commit crimes or abuse their office getting simple slaps on the hand or less. If the corruption is allowed to continue, then our system will finally falter and fail. Every cop who acts like he is superior to those he serves is a "terrorist" attacking our way of life. Being a cop is a voluntary job...anytime you want to go back to being an ordinary citizen you can.....but while you are a police officer, you must submit to the law and to those you serve. Do what is right, get rid of the bad attitude, read the Constitution and your oath of office and live up to the traditional values of public servant and continue the American tradition of honor and integrity. If you do not, then expect only my disdain because you are a threat to my country. By the way, I, as a citizen, am not the person who let 40 million aliens into this country in the last 30 years, many of whom do not share American values, could care less about America, and who have created a massive crime wave in this country and are responsible for most of the trouble police officers face...and provide the reasons government now wants us to "give up our rights". Seems to me Congress created that problem. As a US citizen, I will not yield up my Constitutional rights, in fact I expect all police officers to honor those rights as I will honor theirs. Try and take my rights and I will defend them....I signed an oath to do so. JL Pitts Former Lieutenant, US Army Vietnam '68-'69
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:16:33 PM EDT
You have hit the nail right on the head. Now we will see the "cops are prefect" posters of the last few days try to have thier way with you. Hang in there, some of us are with you....fullclip
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:20:29 PM EDT
You are wrong in one respect- LEOs never go back to being an "ordinary citizen", almost all the gun restrictions, bans and CCW laws do not apply to retired cops. Therefore they are still "more worthy" and elitist. Sleazy politicos bribe them with exemptions. That way the polititians can look like they are tough on crime (Look at all these Police Chiefs who support my bill!) and the police get something in return. They (might) realize the gun restrictions are bad for society, but seeing the writing on the wall they cut deals to protect their own rights. In addition, not a few police supervisors and union leaders probably realize that making citizens increasingly helpless will result in bigger budgets and more union members. They are treated differently than you and me, under law, which feeds their superiority complex.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:23:12 PM EDT
I have the same point of view and made it clear in all my posts but I get in trouble for speaking my mind. In this day and culture we have to know German for the nazi atttude and Russian for the Communist ideology.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:32:17 PM EDT
Be a good cop or be a civilian..? WTF....how can you use the term good prefixing cop?[;)].....this Nations going downhill fast!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:49:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 2:47:38 PM EDT by Sweep]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:51:42 PM EDT
Amen brother LTVN68: What grips me the most is when they rationalize their behavior by quoting all the citizens with attitudes giving them a hard time. I for one have only dealt with LEO's (besides my family & their friends) on an occasional basis. When I have been asked questions by polite officers. I will go out of my way to say Sir and give them the same respect they offer to me. Other officers, who have the everybody's a criminal attitude, get nothing from me but what they dish out. I am sure these LEO's who garner this type of attitude do so because of a superiority complex. Sadly this problem prevents them from seeing themselves as anything but righteous and above reproach. Therefore they cannot be helped unless something drastic or unfortunate happens to them or someone close to them.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:53:46 PM EDT
Who would have thought that there were so many anti-LEO types hanging out at AR15.com.......
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:26:13 PM EDT
The ultimate fault lies with us the citizens. We call for our government to do more and more for us, and are angry when it demands more resources for that purpose, and when it and it's agents fail to meet our expectations. Law Enforcment is given an unprecedented amount of power, and is charged with the "responsability" not to abuse that power while doing a difficult and dangerous job. Perhapse we ask too much of them, because many do not seem up to the task. Many in a zealous attempt to do more, and feel more effective and important, take liberties, and miss-use the power they are given, perhapse without even meaning to, to the detrement of those they are intended to serve. This creates increadable resentment toward them and the authority they are given, because it has become increasingly obvious that as expectations of them rise, many are simply not up to the task. I believe the best way to improve the immage of law enforcment is to reduce the powers and responsability they are given. If they have less authority, and less responsability, then less will be expected of them, and less of them will create resentment by failing to meet expectations. Less is more! Law enforcment themselves will be happier, and citizens will be happier with them.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:40:35 PM EDT
I didn't really want to be in law enforcement but I am going to reasearch being a TX game warden.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:45:50 PM EDT
Who would have thought that there were so many anti-LEO types hanging out at AR15.com.......
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Another one misses the point. Anti-Attitude type would be more precise. I don't like the way gov't is run. Doesn't mean I am anti-gov't. I don't like the way women gossip, wear alot of make-up or spend my damn money. But it doesn't mean I won't play "whoosaadaddie" with them.......[:D]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:49:12 PM EDT
I'm not missing the point at all. I am willing to admit that LE has a SMALL minority of people who shouldn't be officers, as with any profession. However, the attitudes I've seen in recent days indicate there is a pervasive anti-LEO attitude amongst some posters here, regardless of what you claim.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:11:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:15:41 PM EDT
I agree with the small minority position you take concerning the "attitude" LEO's. Maybe it should be pointed out by those who post anti-attitude that they realize there is a small percentage out there that act in this manner. But I also think LEO's should realize that most people posting this way respect the job and people who do a hard job. As with all things, the bad seems to stand out more than the good. The power and respect you assume when putting on a badge is deserved in my opinion. But when abuses of that power occur society will be on you like stink on sh*t because of the high standards that job also commands. Nobody expects perfection. But we do expect professionals.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:29:09 PM EDT
I agree...."In Chaos There is Opportunity" (for a "Dictator"). "So Fall the 2nd Amendment" "So Shall the Rest Follow". I just made these up, trying to be "Profound" I like the term that a former Green Beret used about the "Anti-War Demonstrations" coming up. He called the Demonstrators "Freeze Dried Hippies, Coming Out Of The Woodwork". This was on Fox News.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:29:26 PM EDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who would have thought that there were so many anti-LEO types hanging out at AR15.com....... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who would have thought there would be so many LEO's creating resentment among the public for themselves and their brethren? I doubt most of the "anit-LEO types" as you call them, just woke up one morning and decided, "I think I'll resent LEO's from now on". I think many of them, at one time or another, have been given good reason to feel as they do. That's a shame! But isn't it wonderfull, that in a country where LEO's are outnumbered neerly a million to one, by a heavily armed populace, many of whome harbor "some" resentment toward them, law enforcement is still permitted to function at all, and their authority is respected by most, albeit begrugingly by some. I think this fact is amazing, and a true tribute both to LEO's, and to the tollerence of American Citizens alike.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 9:41:17 PM EDT
Paul Police officer arrest rates for serious crime are higher than for the general public. The L.A.P.D., by its OWN admission perpetrates more violent crimes than do CCW holders in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia combined! You must think the entire nation is just overrun with scum-sucking lowlifes. A few years ago the New Orleans Chief of Police admitted that as many as 10-15% of his officers were crooked. Do you honestly believe that even 5% of Americans are crooks? That would be over 15 million. Shit! Better buy more guns! You must hang out in some pretty bad neighborhoods.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 12:50:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 1:14:51 AM EDT by lg]
Originally Posted By madkiwi: Paul The L.A.P.D., by its OWN admission perpetrates more violent crimes than do CCW holders in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia combined! ------------------- I just gotta ask. What is your source? Our fearless leaders here at the LAPD just love to suck up to the powers that be and make career building statements. LTVN68, When I came on the job a short twelve years ago, I was trained by a few Vietnam '68-'69 type. These guys were hard core. They took shit from nobody, but they always recognized who the good and the bad folks were and acted accordingly. I,ve had conversations with some black folks (ex-cons)who were teenagers or young adults back in the '60s. Some said that in those days, if you merely looked cockeyed at a Los Angeles cop, they'd knock your butt on the ground. Hell, they said that even 20 yrs ago that was still the case. My old training officers concur. Talk about civil rights violations! Although none of these ex-cons have any love for "The Man", mostly all agree that we are a much more professional bunch now-a-days. All of them proudly agree that they EASILY get away with alot more shit (attitude) with todays cops. I guess it all depends on the observer as to whether the modern cop or yester-year's "flatfoot" is the better or...worse? Oh, and one more thing. Good cop or bad cop? Those that call for my services think I'm a good cop. Those that I take to jail think that I'm a corrupt, lying, ("if you didn't have a badge I would...") bad cop.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 1:47:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: If the number of bad cops neared anywhere the number of bad civilians
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Just an observation but if the number of ALL cops numbered anywhere near the number of ALL civilians.......... Of course there's more "bad" civilians. What do civilians out number cops by? 10,000 to 1?
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 3:43:13 AM EDT
Law Enforcement is more of an art than a profession. It takes a few years to take a new officer and turn them into a competent professional. Sometimes it doesn't work out right, and you get a flawed officer, and sometimes bad apples slip through the cracks. There are bad apples in any profession. The taxpayer takes some responsibility for this, too. If your local PD or SO is hiring officers for $9 an hour, you get what you pay for. Well-trained professionals don't come cheap, and neither does the proper equipment, tough, realistic training and proper background investigations and psychological screenings. We weed out a lot of unsuitable candidates. Makes me wonder who is working for agencies that are not as thorough...
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 6:28:14 AM EDT
cops are civilians. they are not the military.
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