National Guard still using SP-1s

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - National Guard still using SP-1s

Posted: 11/3/2001 11:21:15 AM EDT

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbnails/2001-11/1027933.jpg[/img]

Please bear with me. Just seeing if I could post this photo in today's L.A. Times about the National Guard on patrol near the bridge at the L.A. harbor. At least they're allowed to have magazines inserted, unlike the NG posted in airport terminals.

Posted: 11/3/2001 12:06:19 PM EDT

[#1]

We still have A1's on active duty in the AF
-David

Posted: 11/3/2001 12:27:41 PM EDT

[#2]

Darn, just getting the dreaded red X. Sorry folks. I typed the img and /img in the brackets around the URL. Thought that was how you're supposed to do it. Does it require the http:// or can you just start off with the www part after the first img in brackets? [?]

Posted: 11/3/2001 12:37:41 PM EDT

[#3]

Here it is i think

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2001-11/1027933.jpg[/img]

Posted: 11/3/2001 12:49:37 PM EDT

[#4]

This pic is on the front page of the Long Beach Press Telegram. It's kinda small here but the picture in the paper definitely shows slab side M16.

[img]http://www.ptconnect.com/Photos/110301/pn03bridg1.jpg[/img]
An unidentified National Guardsman keeps a watchful eye on the Vincent Thomas Bridge. [i]Brittany Murray / PT[/i]

Posted: 11/3/2001 1:06:07 PM EDT

[#5]

Why no mags in the weapons? Must be different degrees of weapons readiness, but makes no sense if there is an attack, how does one defend himself and other innocent 'civies'.

I am assuming there might be full mags in the ammo pouches, but if not carrying an empty rifle is absolutley fucked.

If one comes under fire with an empty rifle, is one supposed to reach into his mag pouch and then load? Thats like cops carrying empty handguns, with full mags in a pouch. A few seconds can cause lives, and mean victory for a terrorist.

Can anyone explain to me why no mags?

Posted: 11/3/2001 1:18:18 PM EDT

[#6]

Ok so they don't have mags in there gun.
What I want to know is do the have any with them,if something gose down do they just fix byos and hope for the best?
That is it's they can have byos[:\]

Posted: 11/3/2001 1:24:09 PM EDT

[#7]

You can't see mags in those pics? They're plain as day to me, however, I don't know if the mags are loaded or not. A few weeks ago NG at the airports didn't have mags in their guns but I heard they do now.

Posted: 11/3/2001 1:34:13 PM EDT

[#8]

Yes I can see the damn mags there,but thats not the case with most NG troops right now.

Posted: 11/3/2001 6:04:30 PM EDT

[#9]

A1's are just fine,,nice and light and if you have fire discpline very fine.

Posted: 11/3/2001 10:24:06 PM EDT

[#10]

I saw in one So kal paper today the writter all worried about a bridge in s.d. The bridge goes right over the seal base! Seams like a place i would avoid if i was the bad guy.

Posted: 11/3/2001 10:29:12 PM EDT

[#11]

AMMOTECH I didn't think the Air force had A1's active duty CONUS for any Class "A" carriers are you talking about the A1's in training or for Class B,C personal

Posted: 11/4/2001 6:52:25 AM EDT

[#12]

When I was at camp smith several years ago (4-5) we were issued BRAND NEW SP-1s! to shooth the match with. Some other units brought their own A1s and A2s The SPs were gorgeous, looked totally unused much less carried except for these matches.
BrenLover

Posted: 11/4/2001 10:13:59 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Here it is i think

View Quote

That's the one! Thanks Breugel. Don't have a clue why I wasn't able to do it. Looked like you typed in the same URL and everything the same as me. Oh well, maybe next time I'll get it right. [:I]

Posted: 11/4/2001 11:00:28 AM EDT

[#14]

Reno airport guards have M4s.

Posted: 11/4/2001 12:08:17 PM EDT

[#15]

For a while Guillianni wasn't allowing NG troops to be armed at NYC airports; Gov. Pataki ended that by ordering that all NG troops be armed.
I can't speak for other states. Most internet threads seem to indicate that troops in other parts of the country are armed, at least with M9's.

Posted: 11/4/2001 11:51:06 PM EDT

[#16]

Are you sure these were SP1s (AR15s) and not XM16E1s or M16s?

-Troy

Posted: 11/5/2001 12:14:01 AM EDT

[#17]

NG troops at Seatac (Seattle-Tacoma) were carrying M9s, the ones at Oakland had slab-side SP-1s with A2 handguards (magazines inserted).

Troy,

I didn't ask the troops at the airport, but a few years ago a California National Guardsman showed me a similar A1/A2 hybrid with a M203 mounted on it and it was stamped "Colt AR-15 SP-1." It was also a slab-side.

Posted: 11/5/2001 1:52:44 AM EDT

[#18]

Most of the M16's the AF issues are SP1's that have been converted to 3 shot burst with replacement A2 uppers. The only units I've seen that get new rifles are the specops and security police. I'd imagine the national gaurd units do close to the same thing.

Posted: 11/5/2001 6:15:37 AM EDT

[#19]

Gentlemen, Days such as these havn't been seen in over 50 years. That is something to keep in mind. I remember seeing a Color WWII photo of MP's with SandBags around a Capital building in the US. I was little but it brought me a little closer to understanding what was going on. The sandbags said to me that we were not without the need for defense. The photo brought forth an emotion of the Direness when looked at against the backdrop of a building of State in America.

We live in those times again. Everyone is standing straighter and taller these days. There is a harder edge to folks; feel a little more solid. A little more American. As the nation faces deeper challenges ahead, the people of this nation will only get better.
In ten more years we will be as solid as the WWII generation. Hows that for the silver lining. There are fantastic things ahead for this Nation. And this war will bring them out.

Benjamin

Posted: 11/5/2001 6:26:20 AM EDT

[#20]

There are no A1's in the Air Force(except a very rare, few hand-me-downs). All are one of the following: M-16A2's, M-16's converted to A2,M-16,or GAU-5(what the Air Force calls the M-4). The Air Force never puchased A1's. They are so rare(A1's) that in my carrer as a Combat Arms Specialist in the Air Force I can remember only 1 M-16 that had an A1 upper(which was on that rifle most likely due to logistical problems). The vast majority of the M-16's in the Air Force are now converted to A2. I know, I have personally converted hundreds...
-Steve

Posted: 11/5/2001 6:51:27 AM EDT

[#21]

Gentleman, I do not Know what the rest of the nations national guard units are carrying but on 09/12/01, A few City blocks from ground zero I spoke with 2 members of the NY Army national guard about the weapons they were carrying, Both were marked Colt M16A1, Triangle Handguards, 1/12 CMP marked on the bore. 30 round Magazines inserted but They were ordered to not place a round in the chamber. PS: The magazines were adventure line, With no date markings?

Posted: 11/5/2001 7:32:37 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Why no mags in the weapons? Must be different degrees of weapons readiness, but makes no sense if there is an attack, how does one defend himself and other innocent 'civies'.

I am assuming there might be full mags in the ammo pouches, but if not carrying an empty rifle is absolutley fucked.

If one comes under fire with an empty rifle, is one supposed to reach into his mag pouch and then load? Thats like cops carrying empty handguns, with full mags in a pouch. A few seconds can cause lives, and mean victory for a terrorist.

Can anyone explain to me why no mags?

View Quote

I was watching television news, and they showed one Natinal Guardsman with a mag that was filled. The NG definitely do have ammo now. But I bet there is no round in the chamber because I personally think that the NG is there to backup the civilian law enforcement. During the Gulf War, I remember news reports that a few people had accidental discharges due to the fact they removed magazine, but forgot to empty the chamber.

Posted: 11/5/2001 2:08:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
There are no A1's in the Air Force(except a very rare, few hand-me-downs). All are one of the following: M-16A2's, M-16's converted to A2,M-16,or GAU-5(what the Air Force calls the M-4). The Air Force never puchased A1's. They are so rare(A1's) that in my carrer as a Combat Arms Specialist in the Air Force I can remember only 1 M-16 that had an A1 upper(which was on that rifle most likely due to logistical problems). The vast majority of the M-16's in the Air Force are now converted to A2. I know, I have personally converted hundreds...
-Steve

View Quote

Thats the job im trying to get in the AF (CATM), but i have to become an SP first. How is it compared to armory work? do you still have to fulfill an SP role?

Posted: 11/5/2001 4:26:30 PM EDT

[#24]

CATM have you ever been to the middle east I can personally say that there were hundreds of A1's in the SP armories in KSA and Kuwait.
Also The A1's the Air force ordered were different they didn't have the forward assist so that they would have a slimmer profile. How long have you been in? when I went through basic in 94' we qualified with the a1's mine was a colt M16 with the serial number 001574
john

Posted: 11/5/2001 6:36:25 PM EDT

[#25]

On a somewhat related note;

I noticed that the National Guardsmen in C.A. (san fran specifically, I saw them on CNN so it must be true) were loaded with 20 round mags while the National Guard here in NYC are using 30 rounders.

Just an interesting aside. Guess the K.A. national guard has a 20 round limit. [:)]

Posted: 11/5/2001 8:18:46 PM EDT

[#26]

The AF never ordered A1's, All the AF rifles were early Model 01's,02's and M16's ( some marked AR 15 ) without the forward assist. The AF might have some A1's or other configs for Special Ops but not many.As CATM said nearly all have been converted to A2 configuration w/3 shot burst and all the old upper halfs, stocks and trigger parts destroyed !

Posted: 11/5/2001 8:26:20 PM EDT

[#27]

Tangeant I wasn't aware of the 01,02 designation, in 95 when I was TDY to "the Jab" we had a1's in the armory that did have the forward assist I had never had an M16 that old with the FA while CONUS do you think they might have been old army weapons left over from the storm?
john

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - National Guard still using SP-1s

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