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Posted: 11/3/2001 9:14:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 9:10:28 AM EDT by warlord]
Los Angeles Times: N.Y. Firefighters Charged in Riot [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-attacks-trade-center1103nov03.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnation%2Dheadlines[/url] N.Y. Firefighters Charged in Riot By CHAKA FERGUSON Associated Press Writer November 3 2001, 7:15 AM PST NEW YORK -- Eleven firefighters and a union official were charged with inciting a riot after they led hundreds of firefighters in a march protesting the mayor's decision to scale back the number of people searching for victims in the wreckage of the World Trade Center. Hundreds of firefighters pushed past police manning barricades around ground zero on Friday, some scuffling with the officers. Once inside the cordoned off area, the firefighters held a moment of silence. Kevin Gallagher, president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, spoke to the crowd from atop a muddy bulldozer decorated with an American flag. "Let's bring our brothers back to our families, where they should be," he shouted. The protest came after Mayor Rudolph Giuliani announced a new policy limiting the number of firefighters working at the site to 25 at a time. He said the high number of workers digging amid heavy equipment had become increasingly dangerous. "We were given very, very strong advice that this site was a disaster waiting to happen," Giuliani said. "Our concern has to be for the lives of the people who are working there now." But firefighters said more than 200 of their comrades are still buried in the rubble and they want enough firefighters on the scene to recover the remains and treat them with dignity. "We don't want to find remains in the Great Kills landfill," said Capt. Peter Gorman, president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, speaking at a news conference. "You wouldn't excavate a cemetery or sacred burial ground like that. Why would you do that with 5,000 citizens of this country buried down there?" Friday's scene was a sharp change from the mood of unity and cooperation that the city had seen since Sept. 11, with police and firefighters working shoulder to shoulder and everyone rallying around Giuliani and the police and fire commissioners. Five police officers were injured during the protest, Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik said, adding that there could be more arrests. The 12 people arrested Friday were charged with inciting to riot, assault, criminal trespass and disorderly conduct.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:15:46 AM EDT
Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen later apologized to the injured officers on behalf of the fire department. As police in riot gear looked on, many firefighters who had moved the protest to City Hall demanded that Von Essen resign over the new policy. Hundreds chanted "Bring our brothers home," and many waved American flags. The two unions in April gave Von Essen no-confidence votes. They have accused him of a dictatorial style that has destroyed morale, and believe he has not stuck up for the rank-and-file despite being a firefighter for more than 20 years and once the president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, which sponsored the rally. Firefighter Bob McGuire, whose nephew Richard Allen is missing in the rubble, asserted that remains had been loaded into trash bins in the past two days. "I don't want him to end up in a Dumpster," McGuire said. Copyright 2001 Associated Press
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:21:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 11:16:50 AM EDT by ColonelKlink]
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:21:45 AM EDT
THIS SUCKS! Damn,I don't know what to say. No joke these guys need a brake bad!,I know the cops have to there jobs and the Fire Fighters are pissed but it should not have to come to this. I really think they should bring in someother Fire Fighters,there are to many of there own down there,how can your ask them to stay cool under stress like that. Everybody has a braking point it's right to push them past there's and and think something would snap.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:24:03 AM EDT
I read this morning that the felony charges were dropped.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:35:18 AM EDT
When things cool down all firefighters will be cleared of any wrong doings. The government is pushing Rudy to get all civil service members out of the area,so that there aren't any witness's to the special teams down there. The pit has way to much classified materials that no one's to know about. The Feds are holding a new appointment job over Rudy's head after he's term as mayor is up. Just something to think about. ??????
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:35:25 AM EDT
With emotions and tensions so high, and so many exhausted & tired police & fireman, I don't know what would happen is another disaster hits, like a big warehouse fire.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:41:28 AM EDT
[url]http://www.channel2000.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-104047220011103-111157.html[/url] Firefighters Avoid Most Serious Charges Most Still Face Trespassing, Harassment Claims see link for full story
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:52:36 AM EDT
The guys in FDNY have every right to be angry. God bless the Firemen for everything they're doing and having to deal with. God bless the Policemen for everything we're doing and having to deal with. It's been a rough (almost) 2 months but we're all on the same team here in NYC, everyone is just real emotional and stressed out. [usa]
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 11:18:09 AM EDT
Be AFRAID...be VERY AFRAID of the NYPD! They will shoot you 41 times for opening the door of your apartment buiding. They will shove a plunger wood handle in your ass and then in your face. They will be hit men for the Mafia (remember the COPs in the 113th precinct) They will shooy eachother in the subway (remember the shooting in the subway between 2 undercover cops under the CITICORP in 1992 summer) They will shoot a fireman on duty (remember Lt. Costas of FDNY shot dead by a NYPD) They will drive drunk a van and kill innocent people. They will turn against anybody if their leash master will order them to do so (just following orders) They will tell you that they are there to SERVE AND PROTECT (who?) With LEO like this we really need protection! They are the FINEST on New York....
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 11:31:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dacon: Be AFRAID...be VERY AFRAID of the NYPD! They will shoot you 41 times for opening the door of your apartment buiding. They will shove a plunger wood handle in your ass and then in your face. They will be hit men for the Mafia (remember the COPs in the 113th precinct) They will shooy eachother in the subway (remember the shooting in the subway between 2 undercover cops under the CITICORP in 1992 summer) They will shoot a fireman on duty (remember Lt. Costas of FDNY shot dead by a NYPD) They will drive drunk a van and kill innocent people. They will turn against anybody if their leash master will order them to do so (just following orders) They will tell you that they are there to SERVE AND PROTECT (who?) With LEO like this we really need protection! They are the FINEST on New York....
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And to think, while we're(NYFD, too) finally riding a wave of extreme popularity EVERYWHERE, it's nice to know that we have people that will always remember the bad stuff and continue to bring it up.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 11:37:44 AM EDT
... I know this may be unpopular, but I have lost a lot of respect for the FDNY "individuals" that participated in the fracas. ... That was not civil nor professional. They're in the same category now as any other "run of the mill" hoodlums in my view.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:04:52 PM EDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be AFRAID...be VERY AFRAID of the NYPD! They will shoot you 41 times for opening the door of your apartment buiding. They will shove a plunger wood handle in your ass and then in your face. They will be hit men for the Mafia (remember the COPs in the 113th precinct) They will shooy eachother in the subway (remember the shooting in the subway between 2 undercover cops under the CITICORP in 1992 summer) They will shoot a fireman on duty (remember Lt. Costas of FDNY shot dead by a NYPD) They will drive drunk a van and kill innocent people. They will turn against anybody if their leash master will order them to do so (just following orders) They will tell you that they are there to SERVE AND PROTECT (who?) With LEO like this we really need protection! They are the FINEST on New York.... ________________________________________ Freedom is not given, is taken! Use the 2nd! Dacon you suck! ARH
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:14:24 PM EDT
Alot of departments, especially ones as big as NYPD have their bad apples. Docn, do not lump them in one barrel. I have met many very nice police officers, who would go out of their way to help a person. Then, I have met jackasses who disgrace police everywhere. This is the same crap the anti-gunners use against us. They say we are all cop-killing militia nuts. It isn't true.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:15:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:32:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:35:22 PM EDT
Almost 2 months later, what is it that they think there will be to "recover"? In my opinion, the firefighter brotherhood thing has just about run its course when they start making unreasonable demands like this one, and then follow up with violence. Horsesh*t. If they really want to honor their "comrades" (starting to hate that word, too), they would lobby the city to entomb the site and let the unrecovered victims rest in peace.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 1:09:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kissel: If they really want to honor their "comrades" (starting to hate that word, too), they would lobby the city to entomb the site and let the unrecovered victims rest in peace.
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How many of your family, friends, colleagues, and coworkers are buried in that pile of shit? One, two, maybe? Damn sure not 300. Shut the hell up, you piece of trash. They have a brotherhood because they've been someplace most of us have not been. A place most of us will never go: Into a fire. Not just risking death, but risking [b]burning[/b] to death. All for what in most cases amounts to an eventual pile of ashes. And a few human lives. So yeah, they do have a 'brotherhood.' Because every single one of them has been there, and every single one of them knows what it's like. We bitch and moan on this board all about how valiant and patriotic we'll be, keyboard commandos and chairborne rangers all, when we [b]gun down[/b] The Man as he comes for our guns. But suddenly all these firefighters are stupid and childish, and need to 'get over it,' all because they want to see a few of their own dug out and dealt with in a proper manner. And all because they [b]protested[b] to do it. Because they crossed a few barricades onto a plot of land that they have every right to be on. Why is a protest worse than killing? How about a few of you pony up a dead relative or friend that we can go bury, in pieces, in a damned landfill. Amongst garbage. Because no matter how much the firefighters lobby, they won't entomb this site. Money talks in NY, and that's valuable space. Several blocks of it. And no amount of lobbying will equal the number of zeroes tacked to the end of the appraisal value on that land. They just want the chance to bring their friends home.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 1:44:48 PM EDT
The Fireman are right, firemen at the site I am sure comforts those families directly affected by the tragedy.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 1:49:12 PM EDT
Do ypu want to know the TRUTH? You can not handle the truth! Remember a few days ago on the news when it was anounced that a large amount of GOLD was found and saved from the ex-WTC? In those bldgs. were a lot a raw-dimond companies and now the word is out that the digging is where the stones may be around. Well the HELL with the people burried there and if a lot of them end up in the dumpster so what. The dimonds are MORE important than the fallen FDNY. Don't you just love when the Mayor is kissing the rich people's ass and spitting in the face of the ones that lost their lives? Remember! I lived in the New York Shity for most of my live and have moved away not for the love of it...but I still have A LOT of friends there in good places that TELL THE TRUTH. Waverunner, Are you denying my statements? Are you ashamed of what YOUR scumbag coleagues did? THERE IS NOTHING GOOD that I can think about the NYPD. Learn the truth and ACCEPT the truth. Why should I close my eyes when is the NYPD that is fucking up ALL THE TIME.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:10:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kissel: ... they would lobby the city to entomb the site and let the unrecovered victims rest in peace.
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That's what we did with the USS ARIZONA in Pearl Harbor. ... and all you "others" defending the irresponsible actions by those FDNY "individuals" are mere hipocrits and should be shamed. There is no call to punch the NYPD and you know it!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:12:45 PM EDT
I really think the fireman need to get on with their regular jobs. Finding your co-worker's bodies in that state would totally mess you up. Let the experts finish up.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:18:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kissel: Almost 2 months later, what is it that they think there will be to "recover"? In my opinion, the firefighter brotherhood thing has just about run its course when they start making unreasonable demands like this one, and then follow up with violence. Horsesh*t. If they really want to honor their "comrades" (starting to hate that word, too), they would lobby the city to entomb the site and let the unrecovered victims rest in peace.
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I think this may be part of the grieving process....... I think EVERYONE who had a loss that day may need some "space" due to the magnitude of the event. I don't think they can entomb it. There are railroad and utility tunnels under it, if they are structurally compromised they could become aquifers..... There is a massive concrete wall underground running through the site that keeps the ocean out. The WTC were built half on land and half on land fill.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:27:35 PM EDT
mattimeo, As a matter of fact, I did know two people buried there--professional colleagues. There. Does that allow me an opinion? If you had bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I qualified my commnets relative to the NYFD's behavior. Judging by your name-calling (which is way out of line, BTW), I realize that I'm dealing with a limited intellect so I'll just connect all the dots from now on. I still can't figure out how you surmise that the firefighters have "every right" to be on WTC property. Anyway, I sure am relieved that you're here to decide for everyone the proper thought on every subject. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:27:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Waverunner:
Originally Posted By Dacon: Be AFRAID...be VERY AFRAID of the NYPD! They will shoot you 41 times for opening the door of your apartment buiding. They will shove a plunger wood handle in your ass and then in your face. They will be hit men for the Mafia (remember the COPs in the 113th precinct) They will shooy eachother in the subway (remember the shooting in the subway between 2 undercover cops under the CITICORP in 1992 summer) They will shoot a fireman on duty (remember Lt. Costas of FDNY shot dead by a NYPD) They will drive drunk a van and kill innocent people. They will turn against anybody if their leash master will order them to do so (just following orders) They will tell you that they are there to SERVE AND PROTECT (who?) With LEO like this we really need protection! They are the FINEST on New York....
View Quote
And to think, while we're(NYFD, too) finally riding a wave of extreme popularity EVERYWHERE, it's nice to know that we have people that will always remember the bad stuff and continue to bring it up.
View Quote
Hey WaveRunner Who the heck do you think you are? You should hang your head in shame. Yeah.. Fuck the police and fuck the firefighters. They are ALL pure evil to the core. The only good, trustworthy, respectable, and likeable people are criminals and LEO bashers. (especially the ones from Arizona) Oh Yeah.. Make sure you remember that the next time you enter a burning building, deliver a baby in the back of a cab, get shot at, save a life, etc... (all for 1/2 of the pay that should be given to PD/FD hero folk) In other words -- Please ignore the ignorant trolls.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:33:15 PM EDT
I am quite sure (actually I know for a fact) that the NYPD cops were just doing their jobs and actually in favor of allowing the FD in to the site. But.. They've got to listen to the orders and commands of the administration. Kinda hard to disregard an order.... With all that has transpired, nerves must be frazzled to the core. I totally agree with the firefighters, but don't think that any physical assaults should have taken place. The cops are just as affected as the firefighters..... Their family/friends are buried there too. What the NYFD has to do is -- picket city hall, the WTC site, etc... and if the city politicians continue to pursue their concept of disposing of bodies in dumpsters, the FD should simply walk out -- Call a massive strike. The citizenry would back them 110% !
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:40:39 PM EDT
... quit aready with the whining. I have a firefighting brother that I'm very proud of (Seattle) and two nieces that are LEO, bless them. ... my only complaint is the behavior of those NYFD [i]INDIVIDUALS[/i] that were way out of line. ... us civies did that we would STILL be in jail! Lastly, [i]"YOU ALL CHOSE YOUR CAREERS"[/i] if you don't like what comes with it I suggest you get into another line of work.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:04:23 PM EDT
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