Not a great comparison. McLandon has shown intelligence...

The real point about carrots is that he is internally undisciplined.  He has no ability to hold his tongue when the situation calls for it.
Until he learns that lesson he will continue to be an entertaining loose cannon, instead of a wise adult.
IMHO, unless he changes, and radically, he will wind up VERY badly.  I see a surefire collision course between him and some cop somewhere, sometime.  That boy's  got too much undisciplined brains NOT to get him into BIG trouble sometime.
Sad to say, unless he changes, you can count on it.  Seen it before, dammit.

Well, being one of the threatened people I can tell ya I will quickly get over my sense of loss.  I totally disagreed with his whole post as the tantrum of a spoiled child.  

What I say may scare you but here goes.  I believe strongly in supporting the constitution and the various ammendments.  That being said, all written words are subject to interpretation.  Our system has checks and balances that may or may not agree. The supreme court has the final say and theirs is the interpretation I will follow in enforcing the various laws passed by the legislature.  I do not follow my own interpretations unless no prior interpretation exhists.  I am quite sure that those who disagree will cause an interpretation to be made and this will be the law of the land.  We are discussing committing violent acts over things here, not lost lives or societal freedom.  If enough people don't like the way the law is they will get together and change it.  Hopefully through elections and other legal means.  There are proper ways to go about changing unjust laws and threatening violence is usually the best way to convince those that passed these laws that they were right, and seek even more restrictive legislation.  That leaves the simple choice, political activist, or martyr. Lets see a real adult show of hands of who would choose the latter.  Things can be replaced, people cannot. Just my thoughts.

Shotar, the easiest way to get laws changed is to PAY the politicians to change them...  MUCH easier than taking to the streets, and a damn sight safer.

Learn how to manipulate the system.

Raf is of course right, wealth makes right, simple proposition, wealth replaced might in our society as the ruling force.  

Yes, GT, there is a third option, but there are exactly one of you and 700,000 of us in the brotherhood of blue.  If one of us is harmed doing his sworn duty we all were and we all see it that way.  The third option if I read you correctly is really a choice, to take the second or at least and hopefully the perpetrator  would surrender so that choice # 1 could be worked through the courts.  If anyone thinks that the masses are ready go to that choice they are sadly deluded.  I have dealt with gangs ( similar line of thinking ) they are brave en masse and usually surrender alone.  Only a full blown loon would face off and expect to come out ok in the end, thus my reasoning here.  No, I do not like certain laws, and I do believe in the 2nd amendment, but I also believe it has limits as do most of the amendments, any law that is an absolute is probably unjust.  All things must be interpreted within their context and weighed accordingly.  The " yelling fire " in a crowded theater test.  I could go on, it would not be appreciated, but I am dealing from logical realities.  The best way is to elect leaders on our side and petition them for the changes we want.  Violence in the current state of society will only be counter productive.

No, Ben I would not participate in this, nor would I deny protected speach, nor would I conduct a search I believed to be illegal.  I would certainly disarm persons who had been relieved of their rights due to status.  I do believe that convicted felons are not entitled to the same rights as the law abiding.  I also believe in not living in extremes.  We live in the real world, with real people and we are fallable.  That said, we have the greatest legal system in the world.  It is by no means perfect, but it is the best in the world.  Let it work and it usually evens out in the end.  What gets to me are the extremists who usually screwed up and made life harder for those of us who follow the law.  This is what mcnutbag was being, he was advocating violence against people.  The ideals should be upheld but we still have a constitutional framework to do this in.  We have not degenerated to the point of extremes as some would like to advocate.  Do I think every law abiding citizen should have the right to own arms, Yes.  Do I think everyone should have this right, no.  Do I think there should be some limitations on what differentiates arms from destructive devices, Yes.  Do I think our current situation is intolerable, no.  Although I do think some of the laws are stupid.  The AWB really does not bother me because I never really had a need for a folding stock, flash hider or bayonet.  I don't think it prevents any crime either, therefore it is a stupid law.  BTW I couldn't tell a preban from postban on mere glance and someone would pretty much have to do something pretty ignorant to get me to look further.  If your stuff is legal, No problem, if it aint, your problem.  The constitution is the supreme law of our land.  It can however be changed and if it were then that changed document would be the supreme law of the land.  If it gets changed, like it or not, it is our fault.  We elect those that make these changes.  The goal therefore is to elect legislators who will vote our will as the people and keep what we want, and reject what we won't.  They will surely please the majority but not all the time.

To remove an amendment from the constitution would in itself require an amendment to the constitution.  See prohibition.  However, it is unprecedented to remove one of the Bill of Rights. WAY different.  Never been done.  

Blackeye:

You bore me.

I can certainly have personal feelings that are separate from professional,  I was however dealing with reality not philosophy here.  Of course cops have a seige mentality at times, any wonder when the wonderful wapsticks would rather shoot at you than get to know what you really think.  You need to read a bit deeper.  Now I do not believe in negotiating with terrorits and of course there are no courts governing the actions of them, they in our current crisis operate outside laws.  That leaves the options at hand. If I read you right you want to join them, well then ya gets what ya gets. I wish you well.

We, however as LEOs and citizens do live as civilized members of a society of laws and do have recourse.  I really don't care if you don't like the laws or not.  If not seek political redress to change them but I cannot and will not abide murder and I will do whatever within the law I need to to bring those who would do these things to justice.  

Now as to the intent of my post, IE dealing with reality, in the current state of affairs, anyone who thinks all there buddies are jumping into their fight with the cops is nuts.  Its a no win situation and as much as you bluster you would be a fool.  That is why I say don't bluster and pontificate violence.  It is a fools errand.  BTW I certainly don't enjoy the same right to free speach that you do.  Everything has its tradeoffs. But I do get letterhead price and issued FA when needed.

The depth of some gun owner’s ignorance never fails to amaze me.

Now it's been about 25 years since I took civic's so somebody correct me if I'm wrong here but I do seem to recall the it was the mission of the police to arrest people and bring them before the courts where a jury of 12 would determine guilt or innocence.

I have no issue with a cop arresting me for doing something stupid and bringing me before the courts. That's their job >.<

I would have problem with a police officer issuing me a citation and then giving me the trial on the streets and carrying out the punishment - sort of Taliban style.

When I've served on military police assignments I generally always went into a brawl with a 2:1 advantage. It's not a WWF match so there are no rules that I need to follow concerning matching numbers with the group of people I'm attempting to apprehend. Having had my ass kicked more than once by a group of men I really don't treasure the feeling of one guy getting pounded by ten times his body mass. Others seem to disagree on this feeling.

If there are posters here don't know the difference between a street gang and a police officer they have issues and I don't think they it. Having grown up in one of the bleakest parts of south Chicago (101st and Hasted) as a poor white boy I know gangs. When I'm with 10 Black Disciples that's one sort of party, when I'm with 10 of Chicago's finest it's another.

McUzi is a geek in the classical circus sense. He bites the heads off of chickens here to entertain us. He is such a source of entertainment that people here worship him and possibly use his outlandish sense of morals to justify their own bad behavior. He stirs up hate for honest law enforcement officers and constantly race bates with Jews and Blacks. He has deep personality issues that he has yet to face.

McUzi is saying what Steve Anderson on Assaultweb.com did is a justifiable thing. A police officer pulled over Anderson a week or so ago and Anderson opened up on the cop putting like 20 bullets into the cruiser and hit the cop too. Guess the cop had it comming in some of your eyes eh?

By all means kill the messenger but don't get upset when his buddy puts 156 grains of high speed metal though your still warm brain.

Hopefully when these people grow wiser they'll learn the meanings of the words they sling about so quickly.

Hey, NP.  Just geeky like that. [;)]

I have been following this and several other anti- LEO threads.  I of course have my own views derived from what I beleive to be reasonable realities.  There are of course abuses but I'm sure the degree tends to stem from the POV of the reader.

1) the gov't aint comin to take your squirl rifle, AR, AK or anything else, as long as it is within specs and your states don't pass unconstitutional laws. Even if they did, LEOs would only be coming after you brought attention to yourself.  Neither the inkling to nor the manpower.

2) Anyone advocating shooting people is just as guilty as the nut who does.

3) I have followed a thread about alleged abuse but in final distillation the guy really excersized poor judgement on Halloween night.  The cops don't know your not a nut till they investigate, and then are probably a bit perturbed that the person was dumb enough to cause the problem anyway.  Sad part is he will probably win the lawsuit.  Others will lionize him as a victim of the oppressor.  This was done with kids trick or treating, cops were more worried about safety from an unknown than his right to troll the neighborhood with AR and rangebag in the car though, just bad form.

In another thread, The ATF busted a detroit area gun dealer, the reporter of course demonized the weapons, silly, but normal.  Wagons of course circled against the JBs,  Reality check, The ATF actually performed a great service to gun owners by removing an unscrupulous dealer that had been purporting illegally modified post bans to be prebans and ripping off honest but unsuspecting citizens by selling to them contraband at preban prices, GO FEDS.  Glad I'm not one of the people burned by these ripoff artists and I'm glad the feds got them.

Still another about cops being murdered by lunatics calling themselves patriots,  Most responses were good, but yet again the usual suspects show up to circle the wagons.  

Given these facts, it is no wonder that cops are suspicious of gun owners.  This level changes with geography but these are just a few examples.  I for one do not fear law abiding gun owners, but, if I encounter you armed I will not presume good intent on your part.  I will act in the interest of my safety and that of those around me, yours included.  Your temporary inconvenience is not worth my life, if you think otherwise, too bad, at that moment you are not in charge, I am.  

To rap this up Mcnutbag is an immature child and a waste of air.  Purhaps one day he will grow up and join the rest of us in a civilized society but his constant rants of bigotry and hatred will not be missed.  I personally picture him as a brilliant but disaffected 15 year old with a red ryder who dreams of grandure and gets a woody from working other people into a lather.

I was following this thread and found it somewhat interesting. Even though we have done this many times before, it is easy to see how thread can get heated. Now, as for you shotar, you would fit in just right at my local police dept, because they were just as shocked that a man would actually take it upon himself to protect his family, especially when we are dealing with possible terrorist threats on Halloween. Had I been a terrorist or a lunatic, the cops would have been about an HOUR too late to do anything. Also, being that I have the right to arm myself in the way that I did, and carry my weapon and range bag the way that I did, it wouldn't have mattered if I was taking granny to her bridge game, or going to the grocery store...You understand that regular men are allowed to carry guns in this world, and just because I have not been indoctrinated, (like most people in my town) and leave my families safety up to a stranger(read LEO) who would not take the same chances as a father and a husband would to ensure that his family lives at any cost to himself. I am not looking to get money out of my ordeal, but I can assure you that what happened to me is being hushed real fast. In fact, my wife works with four cops from the same station and none of them even heard about what happened. It was never in the papers and the local papers had down such petty crimes as someones bicycle seat being stolen. Now you tell me who acted like a dummy? They know what they did was wrong and in violation of my rights, and now they are trying to bury it FAST. But it's too late for them, don't make the same mistake, I hope you learned something from my ordeal. You can't take a law abiding citizen and cross the line just because you don't expect the average man to arm themselves. Well I am not the average man, and I know more about my weapons and the legal use of deadly force than most of my local LEOS...

I've said it before. NO ONE SAW HIS GUN! Someone saw his range bag or guncase. For all someone knew it had fishing poles in it.
Oneshot, correct me if I'm wrong.
I have worked in LE and have MANY family members that do. I know the job. I respect the job. But I find that there are those who forget that while they wear a badge, they are just an every day person like the rest of us. They are a civilian. You have 2 categories. Military and civilian. Police officers are not military. Most of the officers I know understand this and live accordingly. Unfortuntely, there are those like the ones that Oneshot had to deal with that give a VERY BAD name to all of the other great ones that do such a good job every day, but never get credit for.

Great the way some respond here to logic, as to the kind of LEO I am, well, lets see in 15 years the badge isn't as heavy as it once was.  I generally try to treat people with courtesy and respect and have never been accused of undue force.  I have been sent to 10 full blown gang wars,  arrested ( including traffic ) around 5000 people lost count around 3789. I have also personally saved 14 lives through intervention.  Not bad for a career.  I have never conducted an illegal search and I have played by the rules.  I have been stabbed once, shot at 5 times and returned fire 3 times.  ALL are still alive and incarcerated.  I have changed old ladies tires, held a mothers hand while she prayed over her dead infant son and burried 3 coworkers who were lost in the line of duty.  I have tried to do this fairly and without prejudice.  I have also supported and encouraged programs to teach gun safety and good marksmanship to young people.

You are correct, the criminal always chooses the time and manner of the encounter.  The cop is usually outgunned.  As to my contention of the cops being victorious in this glorious battle for rights, I am also right.  Not because of some illconceived gun grab that I would not support, but because for the first one that falls there will be more to take their place, and help will be on the way.  I say it is foolhardy to resist in the short term because I do value life.  I would note that when those of that mind have resisted oft times the result has been tragedy.  The cops are not going to be scared and go away.  The correct forum to fight the hypothetical gun grabbers is before the fact through legislation, or after the fact in court.  I still say there was more to the halloween story than meets the eye, and note, I agreed his rights were probably violated.  I also feel just as strongly that he used poor judgement by loading up before going out.  I left mine at home that night, and I can carry legally.  I would bet that by monday he will have his rifle back with an apology.  At best these guys were over zealous in their approach, but this is also a night the they were on high alert for trouble.  Read my response to that thread and you would see a bit more depth.  I am not and never have been in favor of either weapons confiscation or prohibition for those who can legally own them.  I also don't like being threatened by someone who is going to hunt me down.  I work in a county with about 98% weapons ownership and don't spend my day in fear, I know that most of those good folks would gladly come to my aid in an emergency and thank them.  I also know that I have had one close friend shot for stopping a so called patriot for a license plate violation.  Seems my buddy impeded his right to travel on the public road so he haulded out and shot him.  My point being that the cops are pretty much trying to do a good job for the public.  There are rules that most people follow, others however choose not to.  That is why we have cops.  Just don't presume to think you know me by my very abbreviated opinions here.  You don't.  I would probably be the one yelling stop when your rights were being violated.  Just remeber your rights only extend so far as they don't impeded the rights of others.  

Just a point for further discussion.  Is the right to Life, Liberty, and the persuit of happiness an absolute?  If it is, Who determines how far it goes or what makes someone happy?  How would the governement enforce any law if the lawbreaker claimed he did it because he said it made him happy and he demanded his liberty and life be unhindered.  Looking for well reasoned responses.  Because if these primary rights from the declaration can be limited within a framework of laws, then so can all the others.  Look forward to your spirited debate.  Be safe and enjoy.

Oneshot:

In my earlier post I fear that I did not give your situation due consideration.  Yours is unique in that your local police did act deplorably and I feel this on a far more personal basis than you know due to the plight of a family member in another jurisdiction who was seriously done wrong by some hillbilly social worker types in another jurisdiction.  That being said, I stated that I thought you used bad judgement.  I also considered as you did carrying that night.  It would be perfectly legal for me to due so as an off duty Deputy Sheriff, even though I live out of County.  I chose not to because I realized the likelyhood of being attacked was really lower than the likelyhood of causing alarm to others if my pistol was observed with all those kids around. I clearly understand what your intentions were as far as protecting your children therefore my comment earlier about there being more here than your put in your original post, ie loading the car for the range. I also understand that your intentions were not evil.  The first responding officer probably did not know these things and who knows, may have never encountered an AR before except in training. You freaked him. I certainly do encourage you to seek redress, my statement that this was sad was in fact a reference to my belief that you could have prevented this by earlier choices in the day.  The best outcome would probably be no harm, no foul, go home.  If you are truly interested in bettering the situation in your community see if they have a reserve unit and join.  It might give you a broader perspective.  Perhaps my views are a bit skewed having worked urban ( metro housing authority PD) and Rural ( where we know our citizens and trust them, well at least the good ones) We really don't have repressive gun laws here for the most part and I don't get freaked seeing an AR in the living room.  I probably would if I saw one come out in the city as my past experience tells me whatever is next is probably not good.  I would based on experience also be extra cautious on Halloween.  I wasn't there, didn't have contact with you and probably couldn't tell you what I'd do, but I probably would have given your rifle back no later than the next morning in the worst case.  At best I would have asked you to take it home but I don't know the laws in your state.  Here there would have been no law violated and I would have probably let you be after determining that.  Good luck, I hope all goes well for you.

Ah, never slow below the posted speed limit after dark unless the weather calls for it. The police know that this is common behavior for drunken drivers. If you see the police behind you set the cruise control on the limit and watch your lane and your signals [i]very[/i] carefully.

Driving 45 in a 55 isn't stupid so I wouldn't expect to get pulled over. Being in the military I know how to "shine on" the cop - give them respect and a chance to let you go and they're going to do it. I've been pulled over doing 85 in a 65 at 4:45 on the way to work one morning (I was only going a bit faster than traffic) the cop ran my tags, checked my license and insurance and told me to slow down.

I've been caught shooting my weapons more than once on prohibited public property. Never a problem.

Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, have a nice day sir. Good-bye! Being respectful ain't going to kill me, spending a day in court, paying a hefty fine, and having my insurance go up might!

If people cursed at you all day long and you worked only with the worse of societies issues wouldn't you appreciate running into someone polite?

If I was pretty blonde and wore a large bra I might go about it differently but regardless charm works every time!