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Posted: 3/3/2001 2:06:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2001 5:21:13 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
This came to my attention after reading (and particpating in) Stubbs thread ( http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=6555#lastPost ) regarding the lack of young people at gun shows. I'm happy to read that most of us are reporting that we see several young people at the shows. But what about blacks and other (so called) minorities at gun shows? Do you see many? I do not and consider this part of our (gun owners)problem. If there were more minorities that joined our ranks not only would it increase our numbers but would also strengthen our stand in the RKBA.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:21:21 PM EDT
(Oh God!...here we go again...wait until McUzi reads this one...)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:23:05 PM EDT
Gunslinger, you are absolutely correct. If a person has the legal right to own a gun (not felon, underage, etc) I don't care who they are are what their heritage is. If more minorities would join our ranks, it would help to stop the crap that the demoflaps like to put out about how minorities support gun control. I say the more, the merrier.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:24:47 PM EDT
May be politically incorrect to say so... but i tend to get nervous when i see blacks at gun shows. It may be stereo typing, but it's a feeling i get, and it is real. If anyone can say something to dispell my feeling, please do so.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:26:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sprayboy: May be politically incorrect to say so... but i tend to get nervous when i see blacks at gun shows. It may be stereo typing, but it's a feeling i get, and it is real. If anyone can say something to dispell my feeling, please do so.
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( I knew it!!! Here we go again!!)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:32:13 PM EDT
Well, I'll tell you why there aren't more young people and minorities at gun shows - GUN SHOWS SUCK! They are full of bitter dealers with overpriced items and way too little info. about their products. Many of these guys are fly-by-nighters, so good luck if something goes wrong with your gun. Most will not let you handle the products for long and they will not disassemble the weapons for you to look at their innards. I am 26 years old and very computer literate. Why should I waste my time at a gun show when I can get all the gun info. I need online & save hundreds of dollars in my purchases too? I'd also much rather go to one of the local FFL's who has an actual store and is usually armorer-certified by some of the gun manufacturers. As to why minorities don't go... LOL! I mean what do you think scares them off more - the hundreds of rebel flags, or the Nazi memorabilia? The word "nigger" seems to be tossed around these shows like it's going out of style. Maybe it's different where you live but this is what it's like at the gun shows here in Houston, and I have been to dozens of them. It's a pretty sad state. I can go to my local range and shoot shouler to shoulder with people my age and with minorities, yet when I go "shopping" it seems like every half-assed wannabe Republic of Texas militia member comes out of the woodwork! I mean, if I see one more "Kill 'em all & Let God sort 'em out" black t-shirt I'm gonna puke.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:32:29 PM EDT
ATTENTION....... My Black ass goes to MORE gun shows than even I will admit..and by and whole IMHO...Blacks are not demographically represented...I see other blacks and we talk....I see things in Amerika which I think we do NOT have numbers in, and I encourage those around me to come with me to the shows, but I think we are there.....I will say, as we ALL know...EXCEPT for the nuts, the gun crowd is the MOST courteous and respectful group one could ever be in AND I feel more comfy at the shows than ANYWHERE...I have never had ANY problems BUT.....Maybe more would come IF there were a few less NAZI and CONFEDERATE flags were a flyin...BUT.. I wore the uniform so ALL can think and do as they please...I would rather stop our governments oppression than either of the aforementioned flags at OUR shows.... OUT HERE.....
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:33:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2001 2:45:30 PM EDT by JonnieGTyler]
Here in western Co. there are few blacks that show up at gunshows because there are few living here. However, we have a good size Hispanic population. And you almost always see them looking at: 1) anything evil-looking and semiauto 2) with a sharp edge (or something that should have a sharp edge on it) 3) a good deal on "3-8-0-booleets" 4) any auto pistol with pearl grips and chrome finish (aka, pimp gun) Hell, I bet most of them don't vote because they don't even have green cards. [:D] Edited to add #4. Don't know how I could've forgotten it. They seem to really like these. Like flys to s**t. [;)]
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:38:28 PM EDT
(I think that we are in for a long ride with this topic!!!)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:38:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: ATTENTION....... My Black ass goes to MORE gun shows than even I will admit..and by and whole IMHO...Blacks are not demographically represented...I see other blacks and we talk....I see things in Amerika which I think we do NOT have numbers in, and I encourage those around me to come with me to the shows, but I think we are there.....I will say, as we ALL know...EXCEPT for the nuts, the gun crowd is the MOST courteous and respectful group one could ever be in AND I feel more comfy at the shows than ANYWHERE...I have never had ANY problems BUT.....Maybe more would come IF there were a few less NAZI and CONFEDERATE flags were a flyin...BUT.. I wore the uniform so ALL can think and do as they please...I would rather stop our governments oppression than either of the aforementioned flags at OUR shows.... OUT HERE.....
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Cav ? Can you help me out with a little something here ? I have a tag on the front of my truck ... it's the state flag of Georgia ... it contains the confederate flag also. Here's my question ( in your respected view ) what kind of person does that make me ?
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:42:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:43:57 PM EDT
I hate to say it but...... You always know where the table that has the TEC-9's by the crowd of minorities wearing FUBU and Timberlands. Hey, before you flame. I have been asked the question before about "how do you like all the gang-bangers at the gun show". I respond with the idea that if you block a certain group from buying firearms then you defeat the idea of the 2nd amendment.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:44:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: What jobux and CavVet said! I was born white but became black 19 years ago.
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"Right on, right on, right on!!!! Gimme some skin Bro!!"
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:45:51 PM EDT
Actually, a green card doesn't give you the right to vote. You have to be a citizen. But in CA anyone can vote. And the demos encourage illegals to exercise their non-right to vote every year. How do you think Sanchez got Orange County? The last gun show I was at in SF had many minorities. There were as many Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians as whites. I think it depends on the location of the show. I think the guys selling Nazi crap had a bad day.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:46:05 PM EDT
"Stir it up! Little Darlin', Stir it up!...Oh Yeah!!"
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:47:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:48:42 PM EDT
"I'm gonna get you sucka!!!"
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:57:32 PM EDT
Few blacks at gun shows MAY be due to these reasons? 1. The majority of black people live in highly dense, large, populated cities where gun laws are more strict and gun shows are virtually non- existent. Instead gun shows are held in more rural areas where the white "red-necks" live and are more interested in gun shows to get that deer hunting rifle and some beef jerky. 2. There MAY NOT be as many blacks interested in legally buying a firearm. 3. There MAY NOT be as many blacks who are legally obligated to purchase a firearm. 4. There MAY NOT be as many blacks who are really interested in the shooting sports. And with high numbers of black youths in gangs getting shot, guns may not be a popular item in any black community. No offense to blacks(African-Americans). Just my guess.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:04:04 PM EDT
I think we all need to encourage more people to go out shooting. Most will find it fun. I went out with a group of fellas from work who usually go out less than once a year. They brought their kids, I let them shoot my arsenal. They got to see what they might want to order. I gave them advice on the good gun shops in the area and expected prices. I taught them safety, but remembered not to lecture them or try to spund like a know-it-all. On the gun show question, they once had their purpose, but with internet ammo & equipment sales and the good gun shops in our area, they are pretty obsolete. [frag]
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:07:08 PM EDT
SS109... Well stated!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:14:58 PM EDT
what`s an "assault" weapon?
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:17:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green: what`s an "assault" weapon?
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That is when you don't use an AsPepper weapon...
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:24:41 PM EDT
BTW, don't make anymore ignorant statements like "minorities always go for the pearl handles, or the tec-9's" You know what? So do white people. You take anyone to a gun show, hell my own suburbanite "recreational hunter" friends, they ALL make a beeline for the Tec-9's, the Desert Eagles, etc. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU SEE IN THE FREAKING MOVIES!!! People w/ no firearm education always go towards the coolest looking, not the best, weaponry. Blame it on Hollywood. Next time you go try telling them why those guns are crap instead of just stereotyping all those people. Oh, and to the guy who gets nervous when he sees black people at gun shows... WTF?! Do minorities not have the right to defend themselves too? Do you think those minorities are at the local gun show to buy a "gat" to come carjack you? Gimme a break... You know why these damn laws keep getting passed? Because of dumbasses representing firearm owners. Why is it always some jackass militia member or Charlton Heston waving a gun? Why can't their be a gun owner rep. who is articulate and can actually make a forceful argument instead of lamely yelling "2d Amendment" or "Over my dead body"??? Those who want to take guns away LOVE images of these idiots. What they fear is the educated gun owner. The doctor, the lawyer, the professor, the businessman who keeps a gun... Instead the media just shows the guy w/ the Mp5 w/ a 200 round drum AND an M203 on the bottom...
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:25:03 PM EDT
I hate to tell you this folks but those of you that are scared of black folks got a problem. One of my best bros happens to be black and has a sport utility rifle collection that makes most of you guys look like amatures (sp?) at least 10 AR types 3 different 50bmg, SP89, Uzi's, Mac 10 and a few other ak's and assorted other goodies. This person contributes heavily to the NRA and usually buys a couple of tables at the NRA dinners we have around here. Does it matter that he's black... nope not one bit. I always thought if the first thing you noticed about a person was his/her race than your a biggot, period. Now trouble makers/ gang bangers come in a variety of shapes and sizes and guess what, it ain't the race that tips it off to you, you could put a clean cut white boy in the same outfit that these guys are made up in and he would look like just as big as a scum bag as the other one. I think one of you were right that you don't see many minority type folks at gumshows because of the Nazi/ Redneck crap. Hell I'm white and I don't fell real comfortable around that crap. Sorry I'm not raelly going anywhere with this just kinda venting on the ignorance of it all. Have a good day Pig
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:27:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PinePig: I hate to tell you this folks but those of you that are scared of black folks got a problem. One of my best bros happens to be black and has a sport utility rifle collection that makes most of you guys look like amatures (sp?) at least 10 AR types 3 different 50bmg, SP89, Uzi's, Mac 10 and a few other ak's and assorted other goodies. This person contributes heavily to the NRA and usually buys a couple of tables at the NRA dinners we have around here. Does it matter that he's black... nope not one bit. I always thought if the first thing you noticed about a person was his/her race than your a biggot, period. Now trouble makers/ gang bangers come in a variety of shapes and sizes and guess what, it ain't the race that tips it off to you, you could put a clean cut white boy in the same outfit that these guys are made up in and he would look like just as big as a scum bag as the other one. I think one of you were right that you don't see many minority type folks at gumshows because of the Nazi/ Redneck crap. Hell I'm white and I don't fell real comfortable around that crap. Sorry I'm not raelly going anywhere with this just kinda venting on the ignorance of it all. Have a good day Pig
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Yeah...Right!!! And we all were born yesterday...
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:30:10 PM EDT
I always thought if the first thing you noticed about a person was his/her race than your a biggot, period.
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I often notice a person's race, the way they are dressed, and the way they 'carry' themselves. Does it make me a biggot that I notice a person's race? Not at all. But, if you notice their race, and then make assumptions on the person based on their race, then that would be being a biggot.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:34:08 PM EDT
People tend to go where they feel at ease. I think that a building full of rednecks with guns would not be their first choice for weekend fun.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:34:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Opesus:
I always thought if the first thing you noticed about a person was his/her race than your a biggot, period.
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I often notice a person's race, the way they are dressed, and the way they 'carry' themselves. Does it make me a biggot that I notice a person's race? Not at all. But, if you notice their race, and then make assumptions on the person based on their race, then that would be being a biggot.
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If you NOTICE...then...Guess what you are????
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:36:34 PM EDT
gun ownership is not a racial issue. i`ve seen my share of "questionsble" characters at the shows, of various decent (mostly caucasion)..a "gun guy" is a gun guy, even if they was lookin at " aspepper" weapons!!!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:38:14 PM EDT
CavVet, love your post! I see some blacks at gun shows, but not nearly enough. Some gangsta types, some that look like cops, some vets. I have never seen anything but respect in both directions. When I first got into going to gun shows years ago, the "watering hole" aspect always impressed me. I would see Black people talking with dealers under a Rebel flag, no problem. It is still the case. The point is that we are all shooters and warriors. I don't care if someone is Black, a woman, White, Chinese, gay, Christian, a combination of all the above, or what so long as they with the program. We have a bigger problem out there than our respective race, etc. What really worries me, though is the lack of young people, over 16 and below 25-30. I wish these promoters would let them in free or something. We need to "market to kids" as the anti-tobacco lobby says. I'm in my 40's now and I am worried that when it hits the fan, they won't let those of us who have the knowledge, attitude and skills to defend freedom out of the nursing home! It's clear to me that the plan to disassociate our youth from the gun culture is working. And that is the scariest thing of all. What can we do? I always move "Combat Handguns" and SOF to the teen section on the magazine racks but clearly that is not enough!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:41:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By contras21: [If you NOTICE...then...Guess what you are????
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An observant person? I really don't see how this would make be a biggot. I always notice if somebody has blond, brown, red, or whatever color hair. Does this say that I hate people with a certain hair color? No, it just means that I notice. So anybody who labels a person of another race is a biggot? If I say my friend is Korean with no disrespect in my voice, am I a biggot? I think not...
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:48:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:10:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2001 4:21:45 PM EDT by sigman]
Desert Eagles are'nt crap [pistol]
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:15:13 PM EDT
Regarding gun shows, I have yet to go to one. When i need reloading various items like components, powder, or firearms I usually order it through the mail, internet or a dealer. Sometimes friends have picked up various items from a gun show for me. Considering the Confederate flags, nazi propaganda, or other displays or literature. Some of it to a certain degree can be offensive and some people would not want to be around it. I personally don't find Confederate flags offensive but the other items would alarm me to an extent. Perhaps to display such items would offend some people - black, white, whatever... as many of these items are representative of causes which are represive and hatred filled in the minds of most people. If a show had a substantial number of these things on display, it would be discomforting to many people and they would not return for their desire to be around a [perceived] group who represented these things. A prior post mentioned our initial observations of people. Perhaps we notice the race/color of an individual upon visual contact. I don't believe that merely an observation to necessarially be bigoted, it is when we attach preconceived idea to our visualization that we become a racist or bigot. We all have eyes and make visual observations, lets not pre-judge upon our visualization. I have experienced this many time only to shock the unsuspecting.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:22:08 PM EDT
Gunrunner and Opesus both are correct in their responses. Gunowners need more friends, not enemies. Anyway, what color is Rosie???
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:24:18 PM EDT
Until the philosophy that one man is superior and another inferior, is discredited and abandoned. I say war.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:26:02 PM EDT
What is it with you guys stereotyping people with Tec-9 as the "gangster type", uneducated gun owner. Guess what, I have a Tec-9 that I bought at a pawn shop and it really is a fun gun to play with just like all my other more expensive toys. I have an engineering degree and I probably pay more in taxes than some of the members here who do not have anything better to do other than stereotype the people that they think is not like them.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:34:37 PM EDT
I've noticed lately that when the topic includes blacks, minorities, and even child pornography (thanks to goatboy and his little warning about abuses) that Nazis eventually get drug into the conversation and inevitably into the sewer. Why? Can't you still give a Nazi respect for fighting bravely for his country and what he believed in? Do you really think it's fair to lump a German SS soldier who died a fighting man with a goddamned pediphile? You may all agree with the goatboy in order to keep your login privledges, but in your silent mind there is no way you can lump the two together. If you have'nt seen it yet go the goatboy's warning post and you will. I'm not seeking to get banned from this BB, just stating an opinion here bossman.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:37:32 PM EDT
When we set up at gunshows in Phx...there is a decent mix of race and age. In fact, we have a Hispanic friend of ours working the shows with us now...because he can speak Spanish to other Hispanics...which is really helpful to us (I know very little spanish, Der knows nada). One thing that I have noticed is that we always end up at a table between the 'snake-oil', beanie babies, and some Nazi pukes. The Nazi's prolly asked for a table away from us this time though...they sit there and spew crap all day long(they have every right to...I still have the right to be annoyed)...well, they were spewing when my bro-in-law came in...he is Jewish, about 6'4", 220lbs...and solid muscle...they don't talk so big around him...[}:D] There are certain types of people who we watch out for...you have to...stuff gets stolen at just about every show (not from us...but seems like you hear about at least 1 firearm that goes missing...and mags, and ammo, etc.). At the last show, the guy I had my eye on the most had come up to the table...started handling a couple of SAR2's we had there...neither for sale, just refinish demo's... I wasn't at the table when he was there...when I returned, my friend pointed him out to me and told me that when she asked if he had any questions, he put down the weapon and left the table. In the time it took her to tell me what happend, said guy had turned around and looked at us 5 times...when I made eye contact, he looked away quickly. About the same time, her hubby (who is the guy working shows w/ us) tells me that both of the red paper price tags(that read 'demo-not for sale') that we had on the SAR2's had been removed. Nice try sly guy. Wanna guess what colour he was...some of you will be surprised...I wasn't though... I'll post the answer in the next 24hrs...ch ps...think before you flame
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:55:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jewbait: Why? Can't you still give a Nazi respect for fighting bravely for his country and what he believed in? Do you really think it's fair to lump a German SS soldier who died a fighting man with a goddamned pediphile?
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WTF????????? fighting bravely for his country? for what he believed in?? Nazi soldier's would rank way below a pedophile in my book, killing women and children (And a whole lot of our boys as well as the russians and french) because doing that was easier than fighting back against hitler, thats not brave at all son, why would you even ask sometihng like this around here?
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:55:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jewbait: Why? Can't you still give a Nazi respect for fighting bravely for his country and what he believed in? Do you really think it's fair to lump a German SS soldier who died a fighting man with a goddamned pediphile?
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WTF????????? fighting bravely for his country? for what he believed in?? Nazi soldiers would rank way below a pedophile in my book, killing women and children (And a whole lot of our boys as well as the russians and french) because doing that was easier than fighting back against hitler, thats not brave at all son, why would you even ask something like that around here?
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:03:13 PM EDT
Oh Hell Bratty! What a way to leave it cliff hangin.... Damn now I have to hunt around for this thread in 24hrs just to read the followup. Y'all better post "The rest of the story...." I joined the NRA at the local gunshow long time ago. But the over priced situation sucked, the idea of accessory sales is appealing. I suppose if I found one of those Robert Stewart Maadi-Griffin 50's at the show I would sweat bricks scrapin up the cash but.... Not likely. Railgun....[rail]
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:04:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:07:04 PM EDT
Tampa Gun Show Minority and Gangsta Apparel Report: Minority attendence at the Tampa Gun Show seemed no different than at previous shows. Although I was there from 2:00 to about 3:40 I believe most Tampa Bay Area minorities were as well represented as they have been in the past. The minorities were as well behaved as the majorities, which is usual for this time of the year. The minorities also seemed to be purchas- ing the same weapons and accessories as the majorities and this holds true for purchases at the food court and at the concealed weapons classes as well. I did not decern any unusal minority activity at the TEC9 tables. I am very pleased to report that I did not hear any minorities bashing majorities or any majorities bashing minorities. Gangsta apparel was noticable but no more than usual and was among the younger crowd more prevalent than the older crowd and seemed evenly distributed between the minorities and majorities among the younger crowd. ADDENDUM: I observed that minority representation among the vendors was strikingly absent except for Weapons Unlimited which is owned by Khalide the largest gunshow vendor in the Southeastern Unitied States and who will set up 40 or 50 tables of new guns at every gun show. Many of my majority gun dealer friends think the Gun Show operators give him a price break on the tables while they have to pay $65.00 a table. They also bitterly complain that Khalide gets special treatment as his tables are always the first thing you see as you walk in, sorta front and center if you know what I mean. All that aside the reason that they hate Khalide so much is that his retail prices for guns are lower than their wholesale prices and he recently stopped wholesaling the tradeins to them and is now selling used guns as well.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:23:54 PM EDT
jewbait, Who the FUCKKKK brain washed you? Talk it out here boy. We'll be gald to help ya.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:25:06 PM EDT
Well I'm going to get off topic but hear is something funny. Last gunshow I went to I went right after I got off from work. I walked up to the booth to pay my five bucks and the lady said you have to be 18 to get in. Keep in mind I was in full (LEO) uniform!!!!
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:40:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hipwr223: WTF??? do you really think the average soldier in Nazi Germany had any choice at all. They were soldiers following orders like all good soldiers do. I suppose there has never been an instance when the US Govt had its troops commit atrocities.
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Following orders like good soldiers do, funny I think thats how they described it themselves. a good soldier would not kill innocent people of his own country if he were ordered to, Lon Horiuci, all the guys at waco were following orders so was Ramzi Yousef when he bombed the WTC, so were the 2 towelheads who bombed the USS Cole, bravery is NOT relentlessly doing what you are told to until you die, a burro would do that. You have to have a conscience to have bravery.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 5:41:05 PM EDT
jadams951, It must have been your baby face.[;D] Take it as a compliment [:)]
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 6:02:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Liberty Ship: It's clear to me that the plan to disassociate our youth from the gun culture is working. And that is the scariest thing of all. What can we do? I always move "Combat Handguns" and SOF to the teen section on the magazine racks but clearly that is not enough!
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LOL that's great! :D But seriously as a person of the age of 22 I can honestly say that the anti gun culture is pushed on us in the college scene, as well as in our personal lives. The biggest problem I find is a lot of the dealers don't want to take time to interact with us younger folks at many shows. I am boasting a nice collection for someone my age however the dealers don't know that and could give a shit less cause of my age... go figure, I guess my money isent good enough for the dealer to take some time out to answer my questions at the show.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 6:12:06 PM EDT
I was offended by the rant on Hispanics for thier choices. Different strokes, different folks. I tend to like blued military style weapons, the older generation hunters I hunt with roll their eyes at my semi-autos and I kid them about using 19th century bolts, but in the end we all have good fun.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 6:49:15 PM EDT
erickm: If you can't see the difference between a German SS soldier and a terrorist bomber, Then it now becomes WTF is wrong with YOU??? You rank a hardened German SS soldier below a pediphile? You are a real piece of work boy. I'm not wasting my time on you. God bless our vets. I have even heard vets say they actually respected the way the Nazis fought.
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