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Posted: 10/23/2001 3:59:32 AM EDT
Here's a commentary on the US attitude towards Israel during this recent crisis by Frank F. Gaffney, Jr., a Senior Offical in the Reagan Defense Department. The article is found at:[url] http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25043[/url] [size=4]Is U.S. [i]really[/i] Israel's ally?[/size=4] Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon recently infuriated President Bush by drawing a parallel between the sell-out of Czechoslovakia by Britain and France before World War II and the demands for dangerous concessions being made of his country by the U.S. government today. While there are certain similarities, on reflection, a more accurate analogy would be between what Britain did to her principal ally, France, rather than what they both did to the Czechoslovaks. Israel today, like France in the early-to-mid-1930s, is the mightiest military power in its region. As was also true in France before World War II, Israel has been led for years by weak governments under the sway of leftists convinced that unilateral disarmament and appeasement constitute a reliable alternative to conflict with increasingly dangerous neighbors. In addition, for much of the past decade, American administrations have been encouraging – and, from time to time, extorting – concessions from Israel, much as the Baldwin and Chamberlain governments in pre-war Britain endorsed and occasionally induced declining French defense spending and military preparedness. In 1934, Winston Churchill famously declared that "I cannot imagine a more dangerous policy" than one of deliberately weakening an important ally, upon whose strength one's own security may significantly rely. The question the government and people of the United States must address immediately is: Should we regard Israel as a vital strategic ally in the war on terrorism and refrain from repeating the mistakes made by Britain towards France six decades ago? Or can we safely indulge in a deceit similar to that earlier time's – that concessions that weaken, perhaps mortally, one of our most important bulwarks against a common enemy can be made at no peril to our security? [b]The American people appear to have few illusions on this score[/b]. A survey conducted on Oct. 12-13 by pollster John McLaughlin suggests that they continue overwhelmingly ([b]73 percent[/b]) and strongly to support Israel. The Congress has been at least as supportive. In fact, in recent hearings before the House International Relations Committee, Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs William Burns was bitterly assailed by legislators from both parties for his department's recent denunciations of Israeli efforts to defend themselves – efforts identical in purpose, if not method or success (to date), to our own against Osama bin Laden and company. For his part, President Bush has made clear that he is committed to the security and well-being of Israel. His refusal to meet with Yasser Arafat so long as the Palestinian Authority remains a sponsor of terror against the Jewish State – a tangible sign of Mr. Bush's determination not to coerce Israel into making compromises with which it cannot live – has been commendable and one of the most dramatic departures from the failed foreign policies and practices of his predecessor. - continued -
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 4:09:48 AM EDT
Yet, in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks and the war on terror they unleashed, the Bush administration has come under intense pressure not only to pick up where Bill Clinton left off in squeezing dangerous concessions from Israel, but going where even he dared not go. According to the Boston Globe of Oct. 10, "The Bush administration is prepared in the next few weeks to publicly increase pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to accept not only a Palestinian state but a viable Palestinian homeland that includes a 'shared Jerusalem as its capital.'" Forcing Israel to "share" not just suburbs of Jerusalem but the city itself would surpass any "vision" previously embraced by the U.S. government. The pressure to take such steps comes from a number of quarters. First, there are influential figures with close ties to the Arab world like Mr. Bush's father and his National Security Adviser, Brent Scowcroft, who was recently given an official advisory function as chairman of the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. Then, there are the Arabists in the State Department, who have as clients more than two-dozen Arab-Islamic countries while there is, of course, only one Jewish state – and its desk is manned by foreign service officers whose future advancement will depend on good postings elsewhere in the region. Next, there are the so-called "moderate" leaders in the Arab world. Thus far, their diplomatic stroke has been undiminished, if not actually enhanced, by the war on terror. This is all the more extraordinary insofar as many Americans have recently learned to their horror about such "friends'" thoroughly immoderate, but longstanding, practice of using virulent anti-Israeli and anti-American propaganda as a sort of social safety valve. This device may allow the anger of these countries' burgeoning populations of poor young males to be diverted away from their generally repressive governments – but only at our expense. Finally, there are the Islamic organizations in this country that the president has been encouraged to cultivate – [u]despite the solidarity some of their leaders have long expressed with terrorist groups responsible for the murder not only of Israeli women and children, but of American citizens, as well.[/u] [b]Ezra's Note:[/b] The seizure of the [i]Achille Lauro[/i] cruise ship in October, 1985, by the Palestinian Liberation Front (an offshoot and under the control of Arafat's PLO), resulted in the murder of Leon Klinghoffer, a 69 year old, wheelchair-bound, tourist. To some (such as the PLF) Klinghoffer was simply 'a Jew', to others 'an American Jew', and to still others simply an 'American.' Pick your side carefully now. Who was Leon Klinghoffer? Ezra Ben('TheJewesAreTheMenWhoWillNotBeBlamedForNo­thing')Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 4:42:54 AM EDT
In this moment, Eric, haver sheli, I really don't know. I am not talking about people, but the Israeli govt. cabinet seemed to have lost any sense of diplomatic sensitivity. I fear that Israel will pay for the stupid behavior of its Prime Minister Sharon. Shalom
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 4:43:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 4:40:30 AM EDT by shotar]
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:51:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Should we regard Israel as a vital strategic ally in the war on terrorism and refrain from repeating the mistakes made by Britain towards France six decades ago?
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The problem with this plan, as we're seeing now and as we saw during the Gulf War, is that we have to maintain a balancing act between Israel and its Arab state neighbors. This effectively keeps Israel off the board as far as anything "vital" and "strategic" goes. Our anti-terror coalition would come apart like a pinata if the Israelis got in on some Taliban hunting, and if/when the terror campaign expands to include Hamas and Hizbollah, that's even closer to home and more precarious. They definitely have a lot to offer, and we do have enemies in common, but the nature of those enemies -Islamic fundamentalists- freezes Israel out of any response we take.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:59:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 5:56:35 AM EDT by MickeyMouse]
We SHOULD turn Israel loose on the PLO vermin and let the chips fall where they may! Those cockroaches have been nibbling away at Israel for years. They should have hunted that lying bastard Arafat down and killed him years ago. Holding back Israel from hunting Towel Band is a big mistake. So who needs as an ally some piss ant moslem country that is just waiting for a chance to stab us in the back? In time we must defeat each and every one of them so why not start NOW?
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 6:34:29 AM EDT
What is there to balance? As far as military capability goes, who would you rather have on our side? Poorly trained, poorly led, and poorly equipt rag heads... or highly motivated, highly trained, and excellently led troops with similar beliefs and ideologies??? Not using our ally Israel in a fight is like leaving your pitbull in its cage when you know you're going to have "company"...
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 6:41:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 6:36:03 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Israel has no [b]oil reserves[/b], and until this country realizes that drilling in ANWR means only touching one percent of it, we can't stick our thumb in OPEC's eye. Except for Venezuela, OPEC is all Arabs, or at least Muslims. You know: the folks who have sworn to destroy Israel and reestablish Palestine from the river to the sea. Those guys.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 6:50:07 AM EDT
Pick your side carefully now. Who was Leon Klinghoffer? Ezra Ben('TheJewesAreTheMenWhoWillNotBeBlamedForNo­thing')Hun[>]:)]
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So I guess one American death is too much, but a million death of people from other country is okay? Since when did American citizens become more human than the rest of the world?
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:00:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rahimiv: So I guess one American death is too much, but a million death of people from other country is okay? Since when did American citizens become more human than the rest of the world?
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That's right. When they sailed airliners full of innocent civilians into office buildings full of innocent civilians, their lives became forfeit. Their lives, the lives of their families, the lives of their friends, the lives of people who house them, hide them, feed them, clothe them or lend them fifty cents for a cup of coffee. Total war. They set the rules on 11 September, now quibbling little girls like you want to say, "No fair!" Nobody cares about fair now. You punk.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:11:46 AM EDT
Typical religous war that fits into the Highlander theory, There can be only one. Unfortunately neither religion has any tolerance for any others, so there won't be peace until one is run off. I doubt we can maintain the balancing act with our Arab coalition much beyond the New Year. I think we'll have to offer to get out of Saudi Arabia at the conclusion of the OBL/Taliban campaign. It's doubtful Pakistan will be viable for too much longer, meaning either we ease on down the road & wait for the whole region to boil over, or we establish bases in India or Isreal. Neither of which are much of a win. Do we really have any true die hard allies in the region? I don't think so. Our best option is to let Isreal kick some major booty. Some situations have no diplomatic out.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:09:31 AM EDT
Post from rahimiv -
So I guess one American death is too much, but a million death of people from other country is okay? Since when did American citizens become more human than the rest of the world?
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That's pretty much correct, since I simply don't know to which 'million' deaths you're referring! Who are these mythical 'million' of people to whom you refer? If it comes down to one living, breathing American citizen's life versus the mythical 'million' people on the other side, then, yes, my answer is the one American is more important. If I knew who these 'million' people were, and why we have to choose between them and the solitary American, then my answer [u]might[/u] be different! Remember, we elect leaders to look after what's good for Americans, to put our welfare above every other consideration. If we find out that we have leaders who are willing to sacrifice some of us to attain some lofty but imaginary goal of some sort, then these leaders should be taken out and shot! Eric The(AmericaFirst,Always!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 3:05:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 3:38:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rahimiv:
Pick your side carefully now. Who was Leon Klinghoffer? Ezra Ben('TheJewesAreTheMenWhoWillNotBeBlamedForNo­thing')Hun[>]:)]
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So I guess one American death is too much, but a million death of people from other country is okay? Since when did American citizens become more human than the rest of the world?
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First off, I'd like to point out to you that it's been more than just the two mentioned here, in the last couple years alone, there have been more than a dozen american killed by the PLO (or it's splinters)... Secondly, I'm with Eric... kindly describe this millions of people from another country - especially if the U.S. of A. has been directly responsible for their deaths. [b]Then[/b] we might have a reference on which to extend this debate. Until such a time as that, there are the 5000+ people whose blood is crying from the ground for recompense.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:49:35 PM EDT
I have no sympathy for the PLO, or its splinters either. I think the Israelies should have wiped them out long ago. Assassination of Arafat is the best place to start IMHO. Too often we have restrained Israel from taking care of the idiots that harrass them. Time to turn the loose, encourage them to end the problem for good. How can anyone give a rats ass about Iraq's suffering? After what they did to Kuwait, they were due some unpleasantness!! Had the coward soddom lived up to his promises at the cease fire, sanctions would have eventually been removed. But the lying jackass never complied. Sanctions justly remain in place. Screw him!
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:02:54 PM EDT
What country is this Rahimiv? If he were an American he would never say one american should not be favored over a million of the enemy. I assume he meant the million to be the mystical million that have died because of US sanctions against that terrorist country Iraq.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:10:20 PM EDT
So I guess one American death is too much, but a million death of people from other country is okay? Since when did American citizens become more human than the rest of the world?
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The lives of myself, my family, and for that matter my dogs are worth more than a billion lives elsewhere, in my opinion. And a billion is how many I am willing to kill to keep me living. GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:40:54 AM EDT
Right on GunLvrPHD!! These dumb idiots declared HOLY war on US. Let's see how they like HOLY WAR when it becomes HOLY SHIT and we wipe them from the planet!!
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