Ok, here's the dillema.....

I'm 18 yrs old, since I was 6 I wanted to be in the military.  I've done the research and decided that I definately, without a doubt, want to go into the special forces area (SEAL's or Rangers).  There's only one problem.....

I have an awesome job that pays really well.  I've been doing the computer thing for almost 7 yrs (started when I was 12, 19 in 2 months) and my current position is IT Director for a mutual fund company.  They are paying me 77k/yr...raise coming in feb that will bump me up to 90k.  I have a 401k, full benefits, all that stuff, it's a very cush job as far as jobs go (I've had my share).  I report directly to the CEO so I don't have to deal with any real office politics.  Is it worth leaving that job to join the SEAL's or Rangers?

I'm doing what I enjoy, but it's really boring and mundane, not that I can really complain.  Just trying to get the opinion of some Spec Ops/Former Spec Ops guys about what you would do if you were in my situation.

1. Stick with the current job?
2. Ditch the job and enlist?
3. Stick with the job for a while and see how things pan out?
4. Other?

Sorry about the long post, thanks for reading.

-Gixxer

If you have a college degree you can go in as an officer. You will be close to what you are making given all the extra pay earned. Military has a great retirement plan if you stay in for the long haul. Free med and dental.

You are not gauranteed to make it into the special forces. Best bet is not to count on it. Navy SEAL's graduates only 20% of the men that make the selection process. I have no clue on the other services graduate percentages. Special forces also has the highest rate of divorce in all of military. Military in it self has a high rate of divorce. So you can forget about having a family while you're in. If you are in SpecFor, no life insurance company will insure you. So you are pretty much stuck to the term life that the military offers.

Given the options I would stick to my present career. But that's me. I am thinking of the future (retirement, family, nest egg). Although I would gladly serve my country if called. That's why I am in the reserves.

$77,000 to $90,000 a year and you are just 18?  That seems a bit out there, but if you say so.

As far as the Special Forces shit is concerned, forget it.  Most of the guys who make it through the training aren't the "I wanted to be a Green Beret since I was 6" types.  Not that you don't have a chance, but it is really rough going.

Stick with the job bucko.  Or do yourself a favor and go to college.  Get a degree, enlist, go to OCS, make much more than a dumb grunt (this is your mother speaking).  I got out of the Corps a MGSgt, I made shit for pay.  Believe me, enlisting is only for guys too damn dumb to think about the long term.  

Considering the amount of money that you say you are making, enlisting is absolutely the most stupid thing you could possibly ever even think about doing.




"Do what you will,
just don't think that what you want in the military is what you'll get."

77K a year at 18?
Well, I know a dude with a masters degree in programming, who started college at 16- He is 22 now- Making a "mere" 68K- with a masters to back him up.

77K at 18 with no degree sounds a bit thick to me, but OK.
If you insist.

I say join- but beware. I think there are penaltys for lying once you join the service.

I could easily believe an 18 year old making that much money, I know a 17 year old that does.  When you work with computers you make a lot of money, and it would be stupid to join the Rangers or Seals if you make that kind of money.  Even once you made it you will just end up going to Afghanistan and getting killed.

If you don't,your always going to wonder.

Rangers lead the way.

Gixxer-

I feel your dilemma. At 7 months gestation I was making a 6 figure income. By the time I was an adult 6 figures was pocket change. Problem was I got too spoiled and the momentum to fulfill my life long dream of SOF slowed considerably. My Italian model wife didn't help decision making any easier. Now I keep asking myself, "What If?".

Please excuse me. I'm scheduled for ECT shortly...

Apologies once again for the length of the post.

Here goes.

(snip)
$77,000 to $90,000 a year and you are just 18?  That seems a bit out there, but if you say so.
(/snip)

Currently making 77k (had a raise in sept)
Getting another raise in Feb (putting me at 90k)

I know it sounds out there, but I have a few certs and I've been in the industry for a while.  Here is a salary report from techies.com that explains my job in greater detail.  This is my exact position and I have precisely the same job responsibilities (with the addition of desktop support duties).  I am very thankfull for the job that I have, but due to my age and the fact the company is relatively new I don't make the average salary illustrated here.


Techies.com Salary Report

[url]
http://swz-techies.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?zipcode=19482&narrowcode=IT06&geo=Valley+Forge%2C+PA+19482&jobcode=IT10000048&jobtitle=Information+Technology+Director&image1.x=93&image1.y=23"[/url]

(snip)
Most of the guys who make it through the training aren't the "I wanted to be a Green Beret since I was 6" types.  Not that you don't have a chance, but it is really rough going.
(/snip)

I have done extensive research on the different special forces, and I can see your point, but I don't agree with you.  It all comes down to mental and physical toughness (mostly mental) and I believe that I could succeed.  I do think it would be interesting to see some factual or statistical basis for it though.  The thing that appeals to me most is the challenge.  I love mastering skills, situations, and activities.  For me the special forces seem to be the toughest challenge, in a warehouse full of challenges (so to speak).  Which is why I think I would enjoy it so much.

(snip)
Stick with the job bucko.
Considering the amount of money that you say you are making, enlisting is absolutely the most stupid thing you could possibly ever even think about doing.
(/snip)

This is what the majority of people say would be the prudent thing to do, and I would have to agree with them (and you).  However, if you could put yourself in my shoes for a bit, it is tough having a peer group that is at least twice your age....and having a job that doesn't excite you to boot.


(snip)
just don't think that what you want in the military is what you'll get.
(/snip)

That's the main reason I decided to post a request for advice.  I wanted to see if I was on target thinking what I have been, or if there was something I didn't know about Spec Ops that would influence my decision one way or the other.  I just see this as something I may regret not experiencing later in life.

Thank you for responding, as it was quite a long post, your comments are greatly appreciated.

-Gixxer

[EDIT] - Had to fix link, used HTML instead of Board Code.

[url]http://swz-techies.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?zipcode=19482&narrowcode=IT06&geo=Valley+Forge%2C+PA+19482&jobcode=IT10000048&jobtitle=Information+Technology+Director&image1.x=93&image1.y=23"> Techies.com Salary Report[/url]

Does this mean I can make 77K a year too[?]

Carrots, that code works fine in a web browser.  It didn't occur to me to use the board code instead of regular HTML until I saw the link was bad.  Problem solved.

-Gixxer

....That is my biggest fear.....

-Gixxer

OK. Let me start off by saying I've never been in the military. BUT.. I think I know some answers you are looking for.
I have never done the SMART things. While in school, I was expected because of my grades earl on to go to college. Didnt go.
Father was a cop. Didnt do it.
I always followed my heart. I got into motorcycles when I was in HS and became a bike mechanic, I raced a bit too..I was a bike mechanic for nearly 20 years-liked it as much as you can like a job.NEVER had the stress like my cop Dad.Because I was doing what I WANTED.
When I was an apprentice, I started skydiving.
At the time there was no way to really make a living at it.Now there is.
Four years ago I gave up the REAL world and now I skydive full time. I have NO 401k, NO money saved, I'm 41 years old and guess what? I wouldnt change anything!
The money is irrelevant. You will never be truly happy unless you take chances. One day, when your forty years old and its TOO LATE, you will have a pain inside you that wont go away.
My father was airborne. Royal Canadian Regiment, and fought in Korea.He used to tell me stories when I was little. I can name the three guys who jumped before him on his first jump. Thats why I started jumping.
I never wanted to be in the army, just to be soldier. I would have joined if there was a war, I've always known that.But there was none in my time.
Now there is a war and I'm too old and broken. They would never take me.
Fuck the real world
Fuck the money
Take a chance!
You MIGHT regret doing it. You will always regret NOT doing it.
Just my humble opinion.
Sincerely,
Billy Porter

Go with your dreams or it is going to eat at you the rest of your life!

Perhaps there is a way to find out if I like the military lifestyle without sacrificing my career.

Anybody know anything about the reserves?

I could do that, it would be sort of a compromise for me.  I could maintain my current career path, and also get a taste and see if I like the military life.  Time to do research on the reserves.

Comments?
Suggestions?

-Gixxer

Hey Dude,

never been special forces, but have served 10 yrs as enlisted & officer, and am now making + 6 figures (not counting stock) in the IT field. I made the $'s after doing my time, seeing some places, doing what people do when they deploy.  I am happy to have a cushy life now, but after being out of the military for 8 yr's now I have this ache in my gut that I sold out & didn't chase my dreams & do more cool stuff.

My little brother (who would kick my ass with one arm) followed my route (college = party = kicked out = military) and ended up in an Army SF unit.  He did his time, got some awesome training & a couple occassions to use it.  Then he went back to college, got his degree & is now a stock broker making + 6 figures.

Moral of the story, if you can make the bucks @ 18-19, then you can make them @ 25.  Chase your dreams.  

The alternative is that one day you will have a nice house on the Gulf, a wonderful wife & more than you ever needed, but you will find that you are 39 & no one wants you to fight for your country, even though you can bring your own arsenal.  You will feel incomplete and no one will understand why.

Not singing the blues, but don't make my mistake & sell yourself short.  SEALs is extremely tough to make it to & if you don't you are a miserable squid (I can say that after 6 yrs as a bubblehead quartermaster).  Go Army, you can at least sign up for Ranger (making it through the training & keeping it is another story).  You will get Airborne easy, probably can finish Rabger School, get more cool training & if you are very good & lucky you can go further.

Then when you are done you are a bad motor scooter who has seen it & done that, and you can go back to the keyboards making the big $'s talking abt your days as a snake eater.

Best of luck!  

ISMO, thanks for the great advice.

Your proposed path seems much more realistic than mine, and would satisfy my need for a challange.

I think I will take a vacation day sometime next week and go to a recruiter to take the ASVAB....see what they think.

Thanks for your input.

-Gixxer

Lordtrader the medical isn't so free anymore.
we can thank clinton for that

john

Smart thing to do, continue living for a year or two doing just as you are doing now.


Putting off that decision to join the military till you're a little older, say 20, might really make a world of difference.



I was at the same fork in the road of decisions with regards to military service right about the time I turned 19, wasn't making a shitload of money and I still am not, but I was talking to recruiters and pretty serious about it.



One thing changed all of that almost over night though, a girl!


Don't know if you've got any serious commitments or love interests but the idea of being parted from my new love for months at a time was just too much for me to want to deal with and my decision changed as a result of that.    Call it growing up or whatever you want, all I know is that if I had gone into the military and then learned this valuable lesson that I would have likely had a pretty miserable life whenever I was on duty or away from loved ones.




Go out get laid, A LOT, fall in love, or just live life in general for a few years then see if at age 20 you still feel the same as you do now.




If you're making the money you say you're making, you can always supplement your desire to go into the military with massive amounts of firearms purchases, strive to be the best that you can be in your day to day life, and still have just as much pride in your military as the rest of us do.

(snip)
Go out get laid, A LOT, fall in love, or just live life in general for a few years then see if at age 20 you still feel the same as you do now.
(/snip)

That would be great, but there's a problem with that.  Due to the place I'm in right now with my career, my whole peer group is 35+.  All the responsibilities of my job keep me at work all day (usually half days on the weekends too), by the time I get home I'm so drained that I don't want to do anything but sit down and relax.

I tried enrolling in some classes at a local college, but it seemed that I wasn't on the same wavelength with the people there, wasn't any real common ground.  That, coupled with the fact that I was having to take time away from work to attend, made me pretty much ditch the idea of school (for now anyway).


[edit] - This is starting to sound like a damned pity party.....anybody have any ideas on how I can take control of my situation and further my social interaction?  As he said, it could make a world of difference.

Gixxer, don't be a fool, sign up!  You're 19 fu**ing years old, man!  You dont need to get married until you're, what, 30? 35?  When you get out, you can find a job again.  A lot of people join the military because they can't find a job on the outside (disclaimer: I am 100% sure that every military/ex-military person here joined because they love their country and not for the secure job.  No flames, now..)

You will DEFINETELY regret trying.  I can tell you that now.  I, myself always wanted to be a navy pilot since junior high.  My parents told me to forget it, get a good degree and get a good job.  Well, I got them and now life's good.  But, I still wonder what it would be like.  

To summarize, you're only 19.  Join up and you'll travel all over, experience things you'll never experience behind a desk.  Besides, all those computer nerds become whales by the time they're 21 anyway.  

Go for the best of both worlds.

Keep your job, but join the Guard or Reserves. There are SF units in the reserve components, and you will be trained and qualified at the same schools as the active component guys. If you like it, you can quit your day job and go active. If not, you still have your civilian carreer.

ok do a reality check !! are you sure you want to subject yourself to a hole lot of shit??? The only way to ensure you get to a sf unit is to go reserve. Find a location that has a reserve sf unit with no other units near by. next go see the units recruiter. To get into sf in the regulars you will need lots of recomendations from your nco's and co's. My first choice would be marine as they have "force recon" as the reserve unit and "recon as the regular. They also have a company called angleco thqat not many know about...pat

Heart,,if you have it there is only one thing to do.....

Gixxer....Don't be a dumba**. Stick with the job.

Wu, 75th RR

Where I skydive there is a 25 year old computer geek who drives his Viper on the dirt road to the drop zone. He says it is only a car and he will get a new one if it breaks..

I did my time and loved it, but the money sucks and the odds of making it to a special ops group are long. That said if you really want to do it try.. you can always start over when you get out.

Ropes

Gixxler,
 If you are what you say you are, you are then in a position that affords you a relatively respectable place.
 When you join the military, are you going to be able to handle being a nobody and being treated less than that?
 Your first six months will be basic or boot then your speciality training.  The first half of it will be basic/boot.  You will be broken down and built back up, can you handle that?  Then you will be taught things at the 8th grade level.  Again, will this insult your "intelligence?"  
 If you decide on Rangers, you can go straight to RIP after Airborne, another lesson in being smoked and yelled at but lots of FUN!!!  Ranger Induction Program - agian another long period of being broke down being built back up.  I think three weeks of walking and running your ass off?  IF you make it, you might get to a Ranger Bat.  Which by the way, will guanrantee you getting placed on a 360 degree shooting range!!!!!  Then at some point you might go to Ranger school which is just a school, not a way of life.
 SF is a bit differant.  You got to do all the above except RIP. go to a unit, preferably combat arms, make your sergeant rank (at least three years - if you are shit hot!), then apply to SF with the blessing of your PL, 1sgt, Co, SGM and BNCO.  Now you got to make it through SFQ, which by no means is anything like the above.  Something like RIP but twice, if not three times as long.  But there you are treated like an NCO.  They tell you where to be, with what equipment, in what uniform, at what time, no freaking yelling and degrading you, either you have the self dicipline to get there on your own or you will not get selected.  If you make it then it's on to your speciality training.  If you want a challenge go 18D, SF Medic.  The hardest of all military training. Not just physically but mentally.

This is not for the faint at heart.  It will be some of the hardest if not some of the most painfull experiences you will be exposed to.  If you don't make it can you live with that kind of pain and wishin' you were back at your cush civie job?  But if you do make it, you will have accomplished more than most of the people posting here.

Don't talk to any old recruiter, find an SF National Guard unit in your area and talk to their recruiter.  Any ole "leg" recruiter will get his paws on you and not let you go plus more than likely fill you full of so much bullshit, you will be seeing stars and when the truth hits, you will be madder than a wet hen.  I know there is SFNG in CO, MI and LA but I am not sure where else.  Your best bet is to get on line, find the nearest SFNG unit and go and talk to them.  Even if it means flying down for the weekend.  

Personally, I think military like is good and has been good for the most part.  I think most everyone should do a three year hitch.  No better way to learn self discipline, team work and self reliance.  Plus, make you really appreciate the country we live in.  

KRAMRD - eat shit and die, hope we never meet on a deployement or the battle field, worthless piece of trash!!!!!![-!-]

For those reading along, I think my info is mostly correct, let me know if not, if you have first hand experience/knowledge.

Pakrat
TXARNG 91B
82nd ABD



(edited to add [-!-] )

Thanks for all the replies everyone.  Based on all the info on the site, and a couple people who have emailed me.  It looks like the best reserve area to go into is the marines, with the best active are being the rangers.

I'm probably going to try the reserves first, although I don't know if there is a way that I can get the time off for Basic.  If I can't know, I will wait until we get a few more clients and hire some admins and helpdesk folks to take the pressure off so I can get out of there for 3 months.

Thanks again for all you're replies.

Comments?
Suggestions?

-Gixxer

Gixxer, I am a Retired SF officer, regular army. Retired in '95 with 22 years.
There is a whole lot of boredom and bureaocracy mixed in with the "fun" army stuff.
Most of the time, you are not shooting guns and blowing stuff up.
If you make it through Basic, AIT, Airborne, SF selection and Q course ETC after spending your first 5 or so years in the regular army in conventional units (remember, there are no privates in SF), you may become an SF soldier with a 18 series MOS.
As you get more senior, as an officer or NCO, it is possible to approximate your present salary when you consider Speciality pay(s)(Jump, HALO, demo, SCUBA, Language etc), BAS, BAQ etc.
However, the more senior you become, the more time you spend doing staff work and planning (paperwork), leaving the move, shoot, communicate "interesting" stuff to younger guys.
Suerte, George

[url]www.sfahq.com[/url]
[url]www.specialforces.net[/url]
[url]www-benning.army.mil/RTB[/url]

I know what your going through. I am 29yrs old, and have been working the IT field for a long time. I have Microsoft and Cisco certs so I too make a very good salary. But I have been fighting the urge for the past couple of years. I graduated high school at 17 and landed a corporate job right away. Been with them ever since doing Networking. I have always regretted not enlisting like I wanted to at 17. What I found that I am now planning out is the National Guard. I checked the army reserves but I would have to pick a MOS other then infantry. I did not want what they had available to reserves, so I checked into the National guard. They had Infantry available as an MOS. Only problem this poses on me is 14.5 weeks straight. Boot camp straight to AIT no breaks. My job will "hold" a job for me (probably not what im doing now) but will only pay me 4 weeks per calender year military leave of absence. I get 4 weeks paid vacation per year. That leaves me about 1 month + of no income other then the Guard pay ( I think $835/mo ). The sign on bonus is dispersed over the term of commitment not up front. So I would not be able to pay my bills to keep me going without saving up 2 months salary at least. I am working on that (its a good thing to have saved anyway ). Now, if I do get laid off which is possible but probably not likely (been through 3 in the past year and Im too needed ) my severance package would set me up so I can go enlist immediatly and not worry. Otherwise time is running out I think 34-36 is the max enlist age I forget exactly, but I will do it. It is a goal. You fortunately have time on your side, I would seriously think about at least the reserves or guard to satisfy your curiousity. I can't suggest going full time because by the time you get out and seek to get back into computers if you decided to that, you would be far outdated. Unless of course you picked computer science as an MOS or something related maybe you would get a good job again. Just figured I'd share my situation.

taelil -

I did almost the same thing you did.

I was homeschooled after 8th grade, graduated highschool at 16 and started doing fulltime consulting (was doing it part time and getting class credit when I was homeschooled).

I was just checking out the medical requirements for the SEAL's.  I was diagnosed with asthma when I was really little, they say I've had it since I was born.  The physical requirements for Navy divers say no asthma after age 12.  While I could just not tell anybody I have it and risk it, it does act up sometimes in the winter months.  So having breathing problems while running or while underwater with no inhaler is a problem.

I will have to check on the medical requirements with the army/marine reserves and see what they are like.  Looks like reserves or NG is the way to go for me right now, so I can have a better chance of keeping my job.  The only problem at the moment is that I'm the only in-house IT guy.  I will have to wait probably at least 6 months before I can hire somebody to watch everything while I'm gone.

Back to the NG.  What research have you done on it?  It appears (from the limited knowledge I have) to be a very appealing path for me.  Any places I can look for FAQ's or something?

Thanks for your reply.

-Gixxer

Gixxer-

I went down and talked to a National Guard recruiter. The nice thing about my setup here is the camp I would eventually be stationed at is literally 10mins away. So the weekend commitments would also be in very close driving distance. I certainly wasn't looking for a weekend conveinance setup, it just happened to be at the base here. After I took my ASVAB test, I was offered to go down and visit the camp on a drill weekend for the infantry if I wanted to. My recruiter I delt with was very open and honest about how things would be. She explained that the National Guard is not really out hounding people to join, its kinda like you want it, here is the facts. Which was an excellant approach because I knew what I would be getting into in terms of commitment and what I would need to do on my end before joining. If you pick an MOS other then infantry you can go to basic training, and then have 1 year to complete your MOS training. Depending on the MOS the weeks vary (if memory serves me ). Only thing is right now I understand the NG recruiters are pretty overwhelmed (so I hear). But if you lookup Army National Guard's website they have a general number you can call to get a recruiter in your area to callback. I would suggest visiting a recruiter for the NG, and any other reserves your interested in. Just tell them upfront how succesful you are already in a career and you will get the straight facts, not all the sign on bonus college education etc etc speeches. Even the Army reserves stayed off my back after we realised they did not have any options for infantry unless I went full time active. Anyway I wish you best luck just make sure you understand everything your getting into it will help the decision. I decided to hold mine off as I was entering into the end of a marriage. Now that I am putting that behind me that removes the big con column off why not to join then lol!

Hey btw- you come from gixxer.com at all? I got a 2k gixxer six and next season picking up a 2k2 1k gixxer.

taelil,

Nope, not from gixxer.com

I've been there a few times but I spend most of my time at sportbikes.net

I have a 2k1 gixxer 750, red/black/silver.  Bone stock, no mods (well I dremmeled the fender).

I wouldn't buy a gixxer 1k..... too much bike.  750 is plenty....I have been seriously considering not riding on the street anymore after this season and just turning my gixxer into a track-only bike.

Riding on the street is just too dangerous, then theres the self-control issue.  Every time I go through a sweet turn I think to myself "man, I wish this was on a track so I could really wind it out".  It's definately fun but I don't know if I'm willing to take the risk anymore.

-Gixxer

Gixxer, you should join "LIARS ANONYMOUS"!

FOAD!  DaMan  

[:D] This is next years track bike (me on my 2k six), I have decided to stop draggin the ol knee on the street next season and get that rush at the track. The 1k is going to be more a wheelie, ride the chicks bike next season. The 600 just didnt cut it with passengers, but rocked on the twisties.

This is running a full race only Micron exhaust, Dynojet Stage one, K&N filter. 154mph actual reading on a Sigma 1400 [}:D]

[img]http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=taelil&album_id=38819&image_id=1&courtesy=1[/img]

You may want to look into the asthma situation more closely.  The last I heard, any signs of Asthma were a BIG no no in the armed forces.  Its a potential, if not mandatory, DQ.  

Another point - when and if you join, its possible that they'll take you out of the sf training and put you into a computer job if it fits the "needs of the Army" at the time.  Then you'd be working the same mundane job you have now, but without the extravagent salary.  I could be wrong, but someone with your experience could find it more of a detrement than an asset if your goal is to stay in the Infantry.  

If you're as big a prodigy as you say, getting a college degree in Computer Science should be a walk thru.  You could get the degree then go to OCS.  As an officer you might have more oppritunities than if you enlisted.

Another thing that Pakrat touched on earlier - you may have to consider how you will be treated if you go in.  You were homeschooled and off to a job when you were 17 or whatever is was.  Your instructors will not treat you as an admired computer prodigy, nor will the environment resemble anyhing near the relative sheltered life of homeschooling.  From what I've heard, theres few things rougher mentally or physically than SF school.  

Physical condition is another factor.  Some guys are just genetically good athletes and are capable of sustaining physical abuse without injury.  These are the types that can go for sf.  Even if you've got all the heart in the world, it can't help you if you're constantly injured.  

All that being said, if you think you can cut the mustard then go for it!  You've paid your dues and could afford a pay cut - you've probaly got enough saved to last a while.  And besides, years from now you won't ever say "man, I wished I had done more computer networking"!  But you may regret not taking a potential adventure.  Your choice....