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Posted: 10/12/2001 9:24:27 AM EDT
Do you prefer one over the other? While I find emptying a clip on FA a lot of fun, there's nothing more satisfying than being able to consistantly place rounds into a target at over a few hundred yards, IMO.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:25:49 AM EDT
Both!
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:35:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: Do you prefer one over the other? While I find emptying a clip on FA a lot of fun, there's nothing more satisfying than being able to consistantly place rounds into a target at over a few hundred yards, IMO.
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Just had this discussion w/ an associate of mine. I grew up in NYC. Lived in Boston for a while. Pretty much never got to see long distance. He grew up in a semi-rural area where you needed to pack a lunch to go to your neighbor's. Not surprisingly, I grew up being a short range type (less than 200M) while he gets his jollies punching holes at distances that I can barely see (600M+). Of course, we trade off & try our hand at the alternative often enough but we each know where our strengths lie. BTW, I don't do FA. Mostly fast shooting at lots o'targets.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:38:50 AM EDT
Definately like effects at long distances. Maybe thats why I love my remote control so much [:)]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:41:44 AM EDT
IMHO [b]long range[/b] is the [b]800[/b] yard range off dad's back porch or the [b]1200[/b] yard range we have under lease, I mean sheessh Highpower XC Competitions have you shooting service rifles @ 600 yards. My 2cents, Mike
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:47:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PYamasaki: Just had this discussion w/ an associate of mine.
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I had this discussion last night. A buddy of mine sited that the Russians had a lot of snipers during WW2 and they would pin down whole companies of Germans. Then there was that epic fight between the best Russian and the best German sniper. The Russian won. I like being able to shoot fast with the Aimpoint, but to consistanly hit targets at longer distances is a lot harder for me.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:48:07 AM EDT
It's good to have both. That being said, i find the Ar inadequate as a Marksmans weapon at distances beyond 500 meters. For Short and medium ranges i rather prefer the AR. For CQB i think the AR is preferable to the pistol caliber weapons such as the HK MP5 and it's varients. A suppressed AR is hard to beat for CQB situations perticularly for engaging targets through barriers(walls, cars and such).
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:50:22 AM EDT
I always enjoyed longer ranges. My AR reflects it too... 4x ACOG, Harris bipod, and 20 inch HBAR. I also grew up in a rural area, so shooting at anything was long range. If I need to go short range work, thats what my shotgun or handgun are for. Av.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:04:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: I had this discussion last night. A buddy of mine sited that the Russians had a lot of snipers during WW2 and they would pin down whole companies of Germans. Then there was that epic fight between the best Russian and the best German sniper. The Russian won. I like being able to shoot fast with the Aimpoint, but to consistanly hit targets at longer distances is a lot harder for me.
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The Russians used sniper "exploits" for propaganda quite a bit. The famous sniper duel in fact never occured. I'd take most of the Russian sniper stories with a grain of salt. In any case, the Russian snipers typically operated within 450 yards or so, not long range by our standards.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:08:53 AM EDT
The duel between Vasili Zaitsev and the German sniper was probably a rumor, or story for propaganda, but Zaitsev was a Russian sniper credited with over 500 kills. Me? I'd rather be as far away from return fire as possible. Anything in close, I've got a .45 for that!
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:11:32 AM EDT
I think it is worth doing both. Close range is just plain dangerous, and you will only survive a limited number of close range encounters, no matter how good you are. However, you can't always avoid close range encounters. I'd rather work at longer ranges, where the more skilled guy has a much better chance of winning. Long range starts at over 300 yards. Most troops have trouble effectively engaging with rifle fire at over 300 yards.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:23:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15FENCER: The duel between Vasili Zaitsev and the German sniper was probably a rumor, or story for propaganda, but Zaitsev was a Russian sniper credited with over 500 kills.
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It appears that the German sniper named never existed, and that the Germans had no records of the duel. The orignal Russian documents of the period don't mention it either. It is almost certainly fabrication. I kinda wonder how the Russians confirmed their kills. My guess is that it involved quite a lot of estimation. Certainly, the scope of the combat made such large numbers of kills possible. In some circumstances, a sniper could have racked up a large number of kills. During the mobile phases of WW2, snipers would have been hard pressed. And, on the offensive, they would have trouble racking up lots of kills. They would be effective in streetfighting, forest fighting, and in static warfare. The famous Finnish sniper who has the largest number of alleged kills was fighting in a war that had lots of fighting in forests and static warefare against an enemy who often put their infantry at risk.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:31:15 AM EDT
DonS, the sniper duel DID happen, in Stalingrad I believe, and the German's name was Konig, a major at some German sniper school. I'm at work right now and don't have hard data, but I'll post more tonight.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:41:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RYANG: DonS, the sniper duel DID happen, in Stalingrad I believe, and the German's name was Konig, a major at some German sniper school. I'm at work right now and don't have hard data, but I'll post more tonight.
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This has been gone over in some detail. It is even mentiond as true in Plaster's book [b]Ultimate sniper[/b]. But it isn't true. Several names have been given for the German sniper, but he in fact never existed.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:48:41 AM EDT
This war has been fought: [b]DIDN'T HAPPEN[/b] see here:[url]http://www.snipercentral.com/konig.htm[/url] Made for good reading in [b]War of the Rats[/b] but was propaganda by Soviets. Mike
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:51:23 AM EDT
Long range sniping is the answer. Snipers survive in small groups and can train solo. QCB involves teams with extensive group training. For the long range stuff with my AR, I prefer the long bullets like JLK's and Sierras, single fed. SHTF response would be a full magazine of M193's nearby.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:02:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: This war has been fought: [b]DIDN'T HAPPEN[/b] see here:[url]http://www.snipercentral.com/konig.htm[/url] Made for good reading in [b]War of the Rats[/b] but was propaganda by Soviets. Mike
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To add: "Addendum by Martin Pegler Curator of Weapons, The Royal Armouries, Leeds, UK Scott, While researching for a book on sniping, I used some contacts at Russian museums to look into the veracity of the much reported fight between Zeitsev and Koenig [Thorvald]. Despite the fact that Russian company and regimental records were faithfully kept even throughout the worst days of the Stalingrad seige, nowhere is this duel reported in war diaries. This would seem to be an odd omission, particularly in the face of the cult of 'Sniperism' that the Soviet press were so keen to extoll. I tend to agree with Anthony Beevor's opinion that the shooting match never actually happened and was the result of propoganda reporting by the press who were always keen to promote new 'Heroes of the Soviet Union'. Apparently Zeitsev himself never confirmed or denied the event, an odd attitude in view of its apparent historical importance. " [url]http://www.snipercountry.com/sniphistory.htm#Zaitsev[/url]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:35:32 PM EDT
What is this story you are all talking about, i've never heard of it. Was it that movie "Enemy at the Gates" movie was based upon? Where's an in depth link to this particular story? I'd like to read more about it.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 2:42:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Smeghead: What is this story you are all talking about, i've never heard of it. Was it that movie "Enemy at the Gates" movie was based upon? Where's an in depth link to this particular story? I'd like to read more about it.
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Yes, I believe the movie was based on this duel. Didn't "Tales of the gun" do a segment on this duel when they did a piece on combat snipers?
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 3:14:28 PM EDT
Tales of the gun did do a segment a while back on this duel. [0j] [uzi]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 3:21:25 PM EDT
... I'm an EXPERT at both and all distances in between! ... No second places in this game baby!
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 3:48:19 PM EDT
My best shooting is done at ranges under 10ft...shoot wrestling, that is.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 5:59:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By peregrine: It's good to have both. That being said, i find the Ar inadequate as a Marksmans weapon at distances beyond 500 meters. For Short and medium ranges i rather prefer the AR. For CQB i think the AR is preferable to the pistol caliber weapons such as the HK MP5 and it's varients. A suppressed AR is hard to beat for CQB situations perticularly for engaging targets through barriers(walls, cars and such).
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I would much rather have a .308 for punching through walls or cars. However there are legal ramifications to over penetration,and most civvies will never be in a situation that would require that type of penetration without the chance of collateral damage.
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