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Posted: 10/9/2001 5:22:20 AM EDT
Ok, Chicagoland has seen and hear first hand what your federal government will do if a plane is taken over by someone or ones. They will kill you if they have too. Gee, I thought they were there to protect me from harm, not cause me harm? Where were all of those sky marshals, with those Ninja skills they been showing on TV? The people that saved the Day, were the citizens themselfs! The pilot was the last person to stop him, if it came down to it. In the hearld report, it took 8 to 10 people to stop him. How would one sky marshal or even two would of stopped him? That's right, with a gun. But, there was no marshal on board, just the citizens. If the pilot was armed, this could of been stopped quicker than before. Yes, this mentally ill man would of been killed, but its better than everyone else getting blown up! OR everyone around O'hare learning that government is willing to end your life, and not trust its citizens with the responsiblity of self-defense. What happened if the plane was empty? Or if it was a big AARP convention in there? c-rock http://www.dailyherald.com/main_story.asp?intid=37173100 -------------------- Fighter jets scrambled as scuffle erupts on Chicago-bound plane -------------------- Sonic boom rattles Chicago suburbs By Rogers Worthington Tribune staff reporter October 8, 2001, 4:11 PM CDT A man whose father said had a history of mental health problems tried to enter the XcockpitX of a Chicago-bound airliner this afternoon but was overpowered by other passengers, and the plane made an emergency landing at O'Hare International Airport, authorities said. The incident occurred aboard American Airlines Flight 1238 from Los Angeles to Chicago, according to the airline. A man, who was traveling with his father, allegedly tried to force his way into the locked XcockpitX, and the plane's captain declared an emergency. The man was subdued by other passengers on the plane, a Boeing 767 with 153 people aboard, American said. No injuries were reported in the incident. Meanwhile, the U.S. Air Force scrambled a pair of F-16 fighter jets to intercept the airliner, authorities said. The fighters apparently broke the sound barrier in their haste, setting off a sonic boom that rattled buildings and residents across the suburbs. Witnesses reported seeing the fighters accompany the American Airlines jet as it approached O'Hare for a landing. The airliner landed without further incident at about 3 p.m. It was met on the tarmac by Chicago police, firefighters and paramedics and FBI agents. Copyright (c) 2001, Chicago Tribune
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:23:18 AM EDT
Mann trembled while he described seeing an F-16 outside his window. "For a split second it was comforting, then I realized they have orders to shoot the plane down if we go to a target," he said. This is a quote from the sun times article, this guy just learned what value his life is to the government. c-rock http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-sec09.html
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:26:59 AM EDT
But, but, it's safe to fly again! The government told us it was... They wouldn't lie would they? Would they...?[}:)]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:29:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By c-rock: Mann trembled while he described seeing an F-16 outside his window. "For a split second it was comforting, then I realized they have orders to shoot the plane down if we go to a target," he said. This is a quote from the sun times article, this guy just learned what value his life is to the government. c-rock
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So by implication, you'd prefer that the G allow the hijacked plane to fly into the Sears Tower rather than shoot it down? If it comes down to 10,000 people in the building, or 150 people on the plane, that's easy math, if not necessarily the happiest duty. If your point is that people need to be prepared and able to defend themselves, that's exactly what happened here.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:37:28 AM EDT
So by implication, you'd prefer that the G allow the hijacked plane to fly into the Sears Tower rather than shoot it down? If it comes down to 10,000 people in the building, or 150 people on the plane, that's easy math, if not necessarily the happiest duty. If your point is that people need to be prepared and able to defend themselves, that's exactly what happened here.
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Of course not. I just like to see someone, a citizen, not a agent of the state, be armed. Pilots would be fine. Would of ended the situation a lot quicker. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:44:50 AM EDT
"The people that saved the Day, were the citizens themselfs! The pilot was the last person to stop him, if it came down to it. In the hearld report, it took 8 to 10 people to stop him. How would one sky marshal or even two would of stopped him? That's right, with a gun." AHHHHH DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT! Don't we sound smart
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:45:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:47:42 AM EDT
Just wondering. Do our great men and women in Washington fly commerical airlines or do they call their special 'friends' and get private company jets to fly?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:48:10 AM EDT
ummm.... Shooting down a plane???? Silly me...but what about the people that are on the ground where the wreckage would fall? I hear that the individuals in the plane would be lost, but I have not heard about the individuals that would be harmed who were not even on the plane.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:50:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: "The people that saved the Day, were the citizens themselfs! The pilot was the last person to stop him, if it came down to it. In the hearld report, it took 8 to 10 people to stop him. How would one sky marshal or even two would of stopped him? That's right, with a gun." AHHHHH DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT! Don't we sound smart
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I am not saying anything like that, if I sound like it, sorry. I am working near O'hare, I heard the sonic booms of the F16's. When someone came in from smoking, and told me what they were, a chill went thru me. I understand that things might of had to be done, to protect the city. I just like to see people, even if they are flying, have the right to self-defense. That is all. IT is up to everyone to defend this country. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:59:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 7:37:31 AM EDT by Paul]
Some people here are really dumb. The only way to really keep them from getting anther plane is to make them think it would not do them any good. If we shoot down the plane and the can't hit what they want to with it they will move on and try something else. All this crap is about is taking that away from the [b]terrorist[/b]. Anyway, if I could not take the plane back I'm dead anyway and so are others when the thing gos down. I'll let Bush pick who befor the [b]terrorist[/b]. [removed racial remarks - Paul]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:03:55 AM EDT
And if the plane had been shot down, where do you think it would have fallen as it passed over densely populated northwest suburbs of Chicago?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:05:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: Some people here are really dumb. The only way to really keep them from getting anther plane is to make them think it would not do them any good. If we shoot down the plane and the can't hit what they want to with it they will move on and try something else. All this crap is about is taking that away from the rag heads. Anyway, if I could not take the plane back I'm dead anyway and so are others when the thing gos down. I'll let Bush pick who befor the rags heads.
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SO, shooting the plane down is better, than having the pilots armed? I guess I am dumb, I really trust and believe that commom citizens can and will protect themselfs. Or is government the only one to be trusted with a gun? Sound like you like only the government to have them. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:12:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:14:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 6:11:18 AM EDT by mr_carbine]
I guess I am dumb" YES........... Did I not just say if I (I or any one) could not take the plane back? How do you think one would take the plane back,talk really nice? And I really love how I said the gov. sould be the only ones with guns. KNEE JERK
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:26:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 6:23:54 AM EDT by c-rock]
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: I guess I am dumb" YES........... Did I not just say if I (I or any one) could not take the plane back? How do you think one would take the plane back,talk really nice? And I really love how I said the gov. sould be the only ones with guns. KNEE JERK
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Ok, lets get this cleared up. Since I sound dumb to you, what is your position in having pilots armed? Do you agree or not? When people are on board, should only federal agents be armed? For a newbie, you are talking a lot of smack. Write more than a line or two. I don't want to start a flame fest, I am just sharing a different point of view on this situation. If we are dumb, you can always leave, no one will miss ya. I understand the need to shoot down a plane, but when you hear the jets fly over your office, and hear the windows rattle, it not like TV. Why not have someone armed on board, a citizen, to add one more safety precaution, before some sky jock arms a sidewinder missle? c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:40:55 AM EDT
Ok man, NO! only feds. sould have guns on the plane. You can't just have everybody shootingall over the damn place. Do ou trust everyone that has a gun? And hells yes the pilots should be armed! Not even so much for on the plane but to go to and from the plane. Someone could jump them and get there stuf and play pilot. PS:newbe? I may have been on this site befor you,hell I may even have more that your lil. 400 and something posts to. You never know. And anyway "talking smack" your going off like a nut. It's this fighting over bull sh!t that stoped anybody from doing any thing befor the 11th so lets just keep it up ok.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:47:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:50:43 AM EDT
Our president would`nt lie to us!......(would you mr. clinton?).....................[stick]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:55:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: Ok man, NO! only feds. sould have guns on the plane. You can't just have everybody shootingall over the damn place. Do ou trust everyone that has a gun? And hells yes the pilots should be armed! Not even so much for on the plane but to go to and from the plane. Someone could jump them and get there stuf and play pilot. PS:newbe? I may have been on this site befor you,hell I may even have more that your lil. 400 and something posts to. You never know. And anyway "talking smack" your going off like a nut. It's this fighting over bull sh!t that stoped anybody from doing any thing befor the 11th so lets just keep it up ok.
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I trust my fellow law-abiding citizens to do their duty, which is be able to defend this country. Even up at 30,000 feet. Maybe I am crazy for believing that people can defend themselfs. Well, I have been on here a long time, and I still use the same name to post everything I have to say. I also setup meets for here too, and met lots of boardmemebers. I am not afraid to speak my mind, or hide behind a keyboard. Try it sometime. [:)] Maybe when you hear F16's fly overhead after today, you will them realize they might be killing your own fellow americans. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:56:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: Ok man, NO! only feds. sould have guns on the plane. You can't just have everybody shootingall over the damn place. Do ou trust everyone that has a gun? And hells yes the pilots should be armed! Not even so much for on the plane but to go to and from the plane. Someone could jump them and get there stuf and play pilot. PS:newbe? I may have been on this site befor you,hell I may even have more that your lil. 400 and something posts to. You never know. And anyway "talking smack" your going off like a nut. It's this fighting over bull sh!t that stoped anybody from doing any thing befor the 11th so lets just keep it up ok.
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Yesterday was Columbus Day--today you should be in school.
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I kinda think the same too. I guess those government schools are doing their job. see ya at the next meet. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:57:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SCR1: And if the plane had been shot down, where do you think it would have fallen as it passed over densely populated northwest suburbs of Chicago?
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Good guess, but from the sound of them, it could of been on my office!! c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:05:08 AM EDT
"I trust my fellow law-abiding citizens to do their duty, which is be able to defend this country. Even up at 30,000 feet. Maybe I am crazy for believing that people can defend themselfs." Then you are a fool,if you what to be anyplace I am witha gun you better damn well know how to use it. Just a buch of poeple on a plane,there would be no way to now. "I am not afraid to speak my mind, or hide behind a keyboard. Try it sometime" What the hell are you taking about? I set up a new name cuz. I have a new gun so now I picked "mr-carbine" I don't need to hide from the likes of you or any on else,get over your self man. It's ok,the big bad government will not kill you. Go call Art Bell!
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:10:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:17:26 AM EDT
Your an ass! I'm not "HANGFIRE" thats a lil. to much dude! My name was"battel_rifle" Thas F.ed up.[}:(]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:20:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:22:19 AM EDT
Well that was bad,hangfire, what did I do to you? Play nice[:|]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:35:24 AM EDT
This is interesting. I for one wholeheartedly agree that pilots should be trained and armed, but am not so sure about allowing ANY and ALL law abiding citizens on board with a gun. I read the thread on here about all these brand new gun owners who rushed out to buy guns, not knowing what the hell they were buying and having no clue as to how a gun works. Are these the kind of untrained/over-reactive people you would want on a plane with a gun? I think those who carry on a plane should have SOME kind of formal training, civilians included. Otherwise, with as many nervous, over-reactive people out there now, we could become our own worst airline terrorists.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:50:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:52:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: "I trust my fellow law-abiding citizens to do their duty, which is be able to defend this country. Even up at 30,000 feet. Maybe I am crazy for believing that people can defend themselfs." Then you are a fool,if you what to be anyplace I am witha gun you better damn well know how to use it. Just a buch of poeple on a plane,there would be no way to now. "I am not afraid to speak my mind, or hide behind a keyboard. Try it sometime" What the hell are you taking about? I set up a new name cuz. I have a new gun so now I picked "mr-carbine" I don't need to hide from the likes of you or any on else,get over your self man. It's ok,the big bad government will not kill you. Go call Art Bell!
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Just like how there was no way to know if someone would pull something like this either. Now, maybe someone is fooling themselfs. The Fighters were called, I heard them fly over. People in my office saw them. Even yourself understand why they were there. You even agree with it. Yes, my government would end my life, if it had to. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 7:55:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few - to quote Spock. quote] That quote sounds kinda communist to me! [;)] I am not saying they should not. All I am saying is, arm pilots. There is no sky ninjas on the planes, so who is there to stop this kinda acts? My government is willing to blow me out of the sky, but is unwilling to trust me with a firearm at 30,000 ft. It does not want me to be able to defend myself, or others, if it is needed. I am expendable to them. Same goes for you all here on this board too. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:23:28 AM EDT
So you think being 30,000 feet up with a gun and walking down the street with a gun is the same. You keep talking about how you need to "defend myself" if your that scared don't get on a damn plane! "That quote sounds kinda communist to me!" Now who is talking smack? Bush has over 280,000,000 poeple to think about not just you,it's a tuff call that takes a real man to make. How about a lil. backup,or do think it would better if you just run your hole?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:31:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: So you think being 30,000 feet up with a gun and walking down the street with a gun is the same. You keep talking about how you need to "defend myself" if your that scared don't get on a damn plane! "That quote sounds kinda communist to me!" Now who is talking smack? Bush has over 280,000,000 poeple to think about not just you,it's a tuff call that takes a real man to make. How about a lil. backup,or do think it would better if you just run your hole?
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Bravo, Mr. Carbine!!! I agree with you 100%. Hey, c-rock, it feels different when the shoe's on the other foot, eh? And yes, the government would kill you in a second. Not just blast you out of the sky, but put a bullet through your head if you are a threat to other citizens.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:02:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: So you think being 30,000 feet up with a gun and walking down the street with a gun is the same. You keep talking about how you need to "defend myself" if your that scared don't get on a damn plane! "That quote sounds kinda communist to me!" Now who is talking smack? Bush has over 280,000,000 poeple to think about not just you,it's a tuff call that takes a real man to make. How about a lil. backup,or do think it would better if you just run your hole?
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sorry to say, but bush is not the one to make the call. Some appointed general in the air force will do it. Not one elected official is involved in that anymore.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:04:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498:
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: quote] Bravo, Mr. Carbine!!! I agree with you 100%. Hey, c-rock, it feels different when the shoe's on the other foot, eh? And yes, the government would kill you in a second. Not just blast you out of the sky, but put a bullet through your head if you are a threat to other citizens.
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The same would happen to you also. You are no different, nor no more important to me. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:29:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By c-rock: The same would happen to you also. You are no different, nor no more important to me. c-rock
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I never said I was any more important nor different. It was just implied by some others on this board. And my apologies to you, I didn't mean to slam you. I thought you were someone else. Some guy from from SC who's state makes my BMW. Again, my apologies. No harm was intended. Peace, John
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:02:37 AM EDT
OK, It's a new and foriegn concept to most, as it's just been something we've seen on TV that's happening somewhere "Over there". Now it's here, in our own back yard. We are at WAR. There will be casualties. Wake up and smell the coffee. We are going to get bloody on this one. There is more going on than we are being told. Mainly because the massess of SHEEPLE out there can't handle the truth. The govn. knows we are going to get whacked again. But they try to sugar coat it, so we can better deal with it. "We are on Hieghtened alert", and "Further terrorist attacks are possible" are kinda like the dentist telling you that "You might experience some mild discomfort". yeah, right...you'd better get ready, because you KNOW it's gonna hurt. Pilots with guns? Bad idea. It's not what they are trained to do. They are there to fly the plane. Let them. Install bullet proof barriers to the cockpits, lock the doors, and make the only communication from the rear of the plane "We have an emergency.land the plane". And that's what they will do. It will be up to the passengers to secure their area. If there's an armed fed up there fine. Even so, it may be necessary to step up and help him quell the disturbance. Just like on the ground. If you saw a Police officer fighting with someone on the side of the road, what do you do? Just drive on, and hope he wins the fight, or stop, and lend a hand? I surely hope the latter. Does it matter that you don't have a gun? It shouldn't. Have we become such pussies that we're afraid to stand our ground if we don't have a gun in our hand? God, I hope not. The human creature is a frail thing. You don't need a gun to take him out. We need to get over that mentality that we are helpless without a gun in our hand. None of us is going to live forever. When you go out, make it count for something. Take it on your feet. Not cowering on your knees. Send a message to those coward terrorists. We're Americans, Damn it! We won't go down without a fight!! Remember, they can only be terrorists, if we let them terrorize us. It's all about Attitude. Lets try to exibit the right one. On my feet, Rich
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:08:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498:
Originally Posted By c-rock: The same would happen to you also. You are no different, nor no more important to me. c-rock
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I never said I was any more important nor different. It was just implied by some others on this board. And my apologies to you, I didn't mean to slam you. I thought you were someone else. Some guy from from SC who's state makes my BMW. Again, my apologies. No harm was intended. Peace, John
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No problems with me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:14:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ronin2001: OK, It's a new and foriegn concept to most, as it's just been something we've seen on TV that's happening somewhere "Over there". Now it's here, in our own back yard. We are at WAR. There will be casualties. Wake up and smell the coffee. We are going to get bloody on this one. There is more going on than we are being told. Mainly because the massess of SHEEPLE out there can't handle the truth. The govn. knows we are going to get whacked again. But they try to sugar coat it, so we can better deal with it. "We are on Hieghtened alert", and "Further terrorist attacks are possible" are kinda like the dentist telling you that "You might experience some mild discomfort". yeah, right...you'd better get ready, because you KNOW it's gonna hurt. Pilots with guns? Bad idea. It's not what they are trained to do. They are there to fly the plane. Let them. Install bullet proof barriers to the cockpits, lock the doors, and make the only communication from the rear of the plane "We have an emergency.land the plane". And that's what they will do. It will be up to the passengers to secure their area. If there's an armed fed up there fine. Even so, it may be necessary to step up and help him quell the disturbance. Just like on the ground. If you saw a Police officer fighting with someone on the side of the road, what do you do? Just drive on, and hope he wins the fight, or stop, and lend a hand? I surely hope the latter. Does it matter that you don't have a gun? It shouldn't. Have we become such pussies that we're afraid to stand our ground if we don't have a gun in our hand? God, I hope not. The human creature is a frail thing. You don't need a gun to take him out. We need to get over that mentality that we are helpless without a gun in our hand. None of us is going to live forever. When you go out, make it count for something. Take it on your feet. Not cowering on your knees. Send a message to those coward terrorists. We're Americans, Damn it! We won't go down without a fight!! Remember, they can only be terrorists, if we let them terrorize us. It's all about Attitude. Lets try to exibit the right one. On my feet, Rich
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I understand the issue at hand. We are at war, there will be people dying. I have excepted that. The problem I have is, getting killed from "Friendly Fire". Or someone I know from it. I just want to make sure there are enough safemeasures on board, like guns in the hands of pilots, to lessen the chance of having to use tax-dollar paid weapons used on american citizens. As it stands now, and people sept 11th, nothing has changed, except fighters being called out. Someone got into the cockpit yesterday, and I heard the jets zoom over my office, ready to kill more americans. Not ordered by elected officials, but by appointed bururacts in D.C. c-rock
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:28:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 10:24:51 AM EDT by MG_ME]
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: "The people that saved the Day, were the citizens themselfs! The pilot was the last person to stop him, if it came down to it. In the hearld report, it took 8 to 10 people to stop him. How would one sky marshal or even two would of stopped him? That's right, with a gun." AHHHHH DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT! Don't we sound smart
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whatever!
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:54:38 AM EDT
C-rock I agree 100% The pilots need to be armed. That is a much better solution than shooting down every airliner that get hijacked. We are the government, and we need to change things. Contact your representative.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:11:53 AM EDT
carbine, it really does not matter if you had a previous user name or not and the number of post under that name. If the post in this thread are indicitive to your previous post even if there were 10,000 you would still lack credibility and be little more than a troll. But since we are on the subject........ You seem concerned about the people on a flight over reacting if they were armed. Let's address that issue shall we? Right now there are litterly thousands, if not tens of thousnads and perhaps even as high as a million people in this country that legally carry a concealed firearm. Those people, in order to obtain their permit, have demonstrated themselves to be law abiding, mentally stable and not prone to over reacting in a potentially confrontational encounter. Those same people are exposed every day to people in our society that demonstrate unstable behavior such as the man on the plane. Yet you do not hear about them arbitrarily shooting people. We all know that if such an incident occurred the news media would publisize it until we all had it committed to memory. So therefore there must be another reason we do not hear about it. It does not happen. The same people that would be armed on a plane would be drawn from this same pool of law abiding citizens that have demonstrated their suitibility to carry a concealed weapon. If you are uncomfortable with all of them doing so I submitt you need to begin frequenting another board such as the Ms. board where you can find people of your thinking and kind.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:16:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: So you think being 30,000 feet up with a gun and walking down the street with a gun is the same.
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Please explain to me how it differs. Do people whom possess common sense on the ground some how lose it once they get in the air?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:20:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_carbine: Now who is talking smack?
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WTF? Oh....sorry I forgot. That is one of those cute hip terms that the [b]kids[/b] are using now. God, I'm arguing with a 12 year old. I must be getting old.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:23:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 12:17:46 PM EDT
Well, they already shot down one plane and then lied about it (Flight 93). I think the level of brutality that our government shows its citizens is unbelievable. Especially when there is a very viable alternative (arm the passengers). Believe what you want about Flight 93 and the "heroes" but an F-15 from Langley shot that plane down either before or after the passengers rushed the hijackers. The truth has been buried. But consider: Bush gave the order to shoot down any hijacked planes headed for targets on Sept. 11 The attack on the Pentagon had already taken place, the jets scrambled from Langley did not reach DC in time for that one. They had almost 2 hours of time between when they discovered Flight 93 was off course. The F-15s were already in the air over DC at that time. At supersonic speeds, they could have easily intercepted over rural PA. Pieces of the plane and passenger luggage fell off 8 miles from the crash site. Someplace, somewhere, a few people know the truth. The media has totally avoided the subject and the flight data recorder was tampered with immediately after recovery. MSNBC reported that the last sounds picked up by the data recorder were what sounded like pages of a manual being turned. Pretty calm behavior by hijackers supposedly being rushed and the plane plummeting. Nope, they got shot out of the air and our leaders have lied about it. I want the truth--otherwise all we have is a totalitarian country whose elites feel that they must filter information lest they be held accountable for their actions.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 1:19:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 1:18:14 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
You guys need to give up on the thought of taking a gun or any other weapon on a plane. First it would provide an extremly easy way for a terrorist group to get several firearms on an aircraft legally. Don't try to tell me that they wouldn't do it because several armed citiizens may be on the aircraft and they wouldn't know who they are. I am sure these terrorist have the time and material to train in the use of weapons to take over and manage an aircraft full of folks assuming a certain number of armed opposers. Think about 4 or 5 people that have never trained together or even meet trying to stop a group of trained armed terrorist with a coordinated plan. Second, you assume that all armed people are smart enough and emtional stable enough to know when to use there weapon if alllowed on an aircraft. We have all seen armed people do incredibly stupid things at ranges. What if some armed ass want to end his life and the life of everyone else on the plane. Suddenly this guy has the means to do it. Simply walk to the front of the aircraft and fire several rounds into the cockpit. Third if you are armed and attempt to stop a highjacking and are fortunate enough to be on a flight with air marshalls you would simply be another armed target for them to shoot. It sucks that you could be shot down if your plane is highjacked but after the recent events I see no other choice if the aircraft is headed toward a densely populated target. Yes, you would die and many on the ground would probably die but to would be fewer than if the aircraft destroys say the Sears Tower. We can't allow this to occur. As someone said previously, if the terrorist know we will shoot down an aircraft instead of allowing it to hit a target it make highjacking the plane a mute point. Just as not paying kidnappers make the act unproffitable. Please no comments about my spelling, I know it sucks but spellcheck is down.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 1:26:12 PM EDT
Wow, trickshot, you're going to have to come up with something to back that up. Luggage 8 miles away? I never heard anything about that. Bush wasn't shy about letting everyone know that in addition to himself, there are now 2 Air Force Generals that can authorize the shootdown of a hijacked airliner. Pony up some proof.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 1:33:44 PM EDT
Well, bottom line here is no matter what we think about it, Pilots are not going to be armed. The beaurocrats/CEO's of the Airline companys won't allow it. For liability reasons. The pilots are employees, and the airlines are responsible for their actions. They aren't liable for something a federal Officer does on board. John Doe Citizen won't carry on planes, because the pilots/FAA won't allow it. Let's face it. There are some idiots out there with CCL's. Sorry folks, it just ain't gonna happen. How about the Juristdictional issues? Is the CCL you have in Texas honored in New York, or Chicago, etc? You might be legal when you got on the plane, but committing a felony when you landed. I don't think you'll find a federal Concealed Handgun License, except for one that comes with a badge. Hell, most city bus lines won't let CCL's carry on the buses. How many other public buildings, restaurants, etc, etc ban Concealed carry as well? Do you carry it when you go into your Kid's school to pick them up? Better Not...If it bothers you to not be allowed to carry in these places, you just don't go in those places. The Airlines are no different. Gas up the car, and drive. You're OK then, at least till you cross a state line. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but we did this to ourselves by sitting on our collective Butts,and letting the government slowly strip us of the ability to defend ourselves. Time to pay the fidler..... Rich
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:17:12 PM EDT
I am continually surprisedand disappointed by some of the stuff I read from people on this board. As far as I understand it a fighter jet will only shot when a plane is off course [b]and[/b] they are unable to communicate with the pilots. At that point I see no problem what so ever in shooting it down. The needs of the many do outway the needs of the few.----That's not exactly communism, it more like being selfless. However, I fully support what c-rock is saying. Pilot should be armed [i]and so should pasengers[/i]. Granted that they should have to pass a [b]major[/b] training program, but armed none the less. The main problem is this. Over the years we as a nation have increasingly come to except the government to protect us, when I is an individuals job to protect themselves. Government is a neccessary evil and they are required in many areas, including police, military, fire, etc. Yet it should not be the government sole responsibility to provide safety. When protection is solely placed on the responsibilty of the government is when abuse of that power becomes most evident. [b][size=6]Rock on C-Rock!![/size=6][/b][soapbox]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:01:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: I am continually surprisedand disappointed by some of the stuff I read from people on this board. As far as I understand it a fighter jet will only shot when a plane is off course [b]and[/b] they are unable to communicate with the pilots. At that point I see no problem what so ever in shooting it down. The needs of the many do outway the needs of the few.----That's not exactly communism, it more like being selfless. However, I fully support what c-rock is saying. Pilot should be armed [i]and so should pasengers[/i]. Granted that they should have to pass a [b]major[/b] training program, but armed none the less. The main problem is this. Over the years we as a nation have increasingly come to except the government to protect us, when I is an individuals job to protect themselves. Government is a neccessary evil and they are required in many areas, including police, military, fire, etc. Yet it should not be the government sole responsibility to provide safety. When protection is solely placed on the responsibilty of the government is when abuse of that power becomes most evident. [b][size=6]Rock on C-Rock!![/size=6][/b][soapbox]
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Thanks for the support, I try to speak my mind when I can. c-rock
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