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Posted: 10/4/2001 12:53:20 PM EDT
to pull off an X-ray of an M16 so that it would match this X-ray of an AR15's "guts" This is a great image for showing the geometry of the AR15's inner workings. It would be REALLY GREAT if a similar one of an M16 could be done. What we'd need is a gun friendly doctor with access to X-ray equipment who'd be willing to either take images of their own registered M16 or somebody who knows a doctor who might be in for this sort of thing and has access to the neccesary equipment. I'm betting that somebody out there has got to be able to pull this off, it would be a worthy addition to the various AR15/M16 referrence material that's out there. [img]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/xray.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 3:53:59 PM EDT
I wanna bump this to the top, wanna hear some opinions. Like does anyone else think that this is a good idea or think it can get done? Heck, how much can it cost to have an X-ray done?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:11:14 PM EDT
Neat idea. You'll have to find a location that is privately owned. Bringing firearms to the hospital is a big no-no. You may also want to consider a Chiropracter since they also have x-ray equipment. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:13:58 PM EDT
Don't think the recievers on the film you're showing are metal.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:19:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:41:54 PM EDT
If you will notice, the steel parts are the ones that show up opaque and the aluminum shows up as transparent. It is to the best of my knowlege because steel is far denser than aluminum. In places where the aluminum is thicker i.e. the brass deflector, around the elevation wheel, the rear of the lower, and the pin-holes on the upper; the color is darker. In the thinner areas like the magazine body and carry-handle channel, the color is lighter. This is because the more dense sections permit less X-rays to pass through and "activate" the film. The more X-rays that strike the film, the lighter the color. Just my .02 based upon my knowledge
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:59:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 4:56:29 PM EDT by uglygun]
What Turok said! It's just got way too much detail and would be too much trouble to not be an X-ray of an AR15. You can ever so slightly see the valleys and ribs that are in the magazine where it's metal thickness likely varies ever so slightly. Not to mention the planes that are on profile to the lense of the X-ray machine, it's naturally darker just like it should be due to thicker materials. Plastics show up as nearly transparent as expected and the much more dense steel shows up as the darkest mass. I live in California so the chances of me being able to pull this off is between slim and none(no chance of getting my hands on a registered NFA M16 to use for the pics even if I lined up a person willing to help). It's a call out to others who might know willing parties who could help get quality images. The AR15 image isn't mine, I'm not sure who's responsible for it but it's one of my more favorite images of all time that I've found on the net.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:02:57 PM EDT
I have a clinic and XR machine but no M16[:(] cpermd
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:15:24 PM EDT
But perhaps somebody in your area has an M16? HINT HINT? I'm kinda excited I thought to bring this up, this could be a worth while contribution to the AR15/M16 community.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:25:05 PM EDT
I'm not sure a clinical x-ray machine is what was used for that image. More like one of those fault detection x-ray setups. Like is used for failure analysis. LOTS more powerful than a clinical machine. Any metallurgists here?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 6:30:30 PM EDT
I am a diagnostic radiologist, and I believe that Arock is probably correct. The radiograph of the AR was most likely done on some type of industrial or metallurgical X-ray device, not a medical imaging set-up. You'd really have to crank up the KvP and the MAS to penetrate even the aluminum reciever, and I don't think medical units can do it to the point where you could differentiate the inner parts. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 6:56:59 PM EDT
Turok, understand the differences in metal densities etc but still doubt that this was shot through an aluminum receiver. I will admit that I have no experience in doing x-rays on guns, though. As for edges and folds I can tell you that I can see folds in gowns and hair on chest films if I look close.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 9:48:27 PM EDT
Nice work uglygun! I've seen time-lapse photographs of a loom while it was running. I'd love to see something like that of an AR-15 while firing! The images of a loom running were taken in Grenoble, France, so I don't think I have any chance of finding a friend there w/ an M-16.z
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 10:19:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DocH: I am a diagnostic radiologist, and I believe that Arock is probably correct. The radiograph of the AR was most likely done on some type of industrial or metallurgical X-ray device, not a medical imaging set-up. You'd really have to crank up the KvP and the MAS to penetrate even the aluminum reciever, and I don't think medical units can do it to the point where you could differentiate the inner parts. Good luck.
View Quote
My wife agrees with this statement..she is a Rt (R)(CT) - she experimented with my Glock on taking radiographic images of it. You could see the inner workings of the frame, but the slide was a no go. Just my..well my wifes .2 cents medcop
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 11:06:47 PM EDT
The reason she did not penetrate the glock slide is cause it's steel. Not aluminum. X-rays blow through aluminum easily. Notice in the picture that the stell componants are not penetrated only the aluminum and plastic componants are. I routinely have to xray through 1" solid aluminum in test phantom and no problem going through that without a high dose. An AR receiver is much thinner than 1" Don't make me prove you guys wrong
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 11:41:29 PM EDT
ya need a friend in the Non Destructive Inspection (NDI) business. i have then Xray my welds for porosity when i perform my nuclear welding certification. they can see gas pockets as small as .0005 easily with the equipment they have. i have many friends that would hook me up but i have no m-16 to shoot. i machine and weld scrounge for them all the time so they owe me. i have a handy class III dealer that is ready for any M16 ya want to ship to alaska. and yes i have already asked him for one! the xrays shouldnt hurt bullets right? i have alot of thermolds and just reloaded a few hundred rounds. i wonder what a half loaded clip would look like?
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 3:25:42 AM EDT
Machinehead, have them do a Glock also, that woudl be cool to see the slide functioning.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:05:39 AM EDT
Cool, this thread is getting precisely the type of replies that I was hoping for. ^BUMP^ At this rate we might just get it accomplished!
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:46:27 AM EDT
Looks like a doctored photo to me. Maybe a Photoshop deal. Notice how the light blue of the carry handle, mag body, and plastic pistol grip is the same shade. Seriously doubt that they would all have the same color/tint/density.
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