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Posted: 10/4/2001 6:57:41 AM EDT
Situation: I live in Virginia and have a permit to carry concealed. I also ride a commuter train daily to work. I do not enter the District of Columbia. I do believe that federal employees may be working in my building. If we are to believe our national leaders, the terrorists are not done yet. Packed trains are a sweet target. Even a single terrorist could do a lot of damage if he wanted to (Remember Colin Ferguson’s shooting of 25 people on the Long Island RR in 1993? He killed six and wounded nineteen with one semi-auto pistol.) I have reviewed my ‘Virginia Gun Owner’s Guide’ by Korwin and Maniscalaco in detail. The only references that may apply appear to relate to specific jurisdictions/venues where the Virginia concealed carry law may be held in abeyance by local laws and by the statutes that prevent concealed carry in any ‘federal facility’. Question for LEOs out there in AR-15 cyberland, especially if you are feds or VA LEOs: 1. May I legally carry on the train? 2. May I legally enter my place of work carrying, if federal employees work within the building, even if they do so only on an occasional basis? 3. What is the definition of a ‘federal facility’? (Now don't jump too soon...bear with me on this!) Obviously it is any duly designated federal building...but is it also anywhere federal employees work? Thanks for the help. [thinking]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 7:09:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde: 1. May I legally carry on the train? 2. May I legally enter my place of work carrying, if federal employees work within the building, even if they do so only on an occasional basis? 3. What is the definition of a ‘federal facility’? (Now don't jump too soon...bear with me on this!) Obviously it is any duly designated federal building...but is it also anywhere federal employees work? Thanks for the help. [thinking]
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I may be able to help you out. I'm a Deputy Sheriff in Oklahoma County, but that's irrelevant because this is mostly common knowledge. [b]1:[/b] In Oklahoma, the only places that you can't carry a concealed weapon are those designated in OK SDA laws and those places where the owner specifically states that he does not want concealed weapons on his property. There are several places that the legislation prohibits carry, places such as churches, banks, schools, etc. [b]2:[/b] I work full time for the United States Postal Service in a [b]LEASED[/b] building. Therefor, since the building is not federal property, one may carry a concealed weapon on the premisis. However, they have signs posted at every entrance that states that concealed weapons are prohibited in the building. [b]3:[/b] See above.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 7:29:07 AM EDT
Well, sad as it seems to say, only a major incident like Luby's made it possible later, after many victims, for TX CCW to be legal inside restaurants and other public facilities. Of course, the same didn't occur in NY with the Colin Ferguson case, and indeed, Carolyn McCarthy got elected because of her husband/son(?) getting killed by Colin Ferguson, and she has worked overtime to f*%# over anybody who wants to not be an unarmed victim. (I hear her seat is in trouble, though...) So, I don't know what to say, other than, you must decide for yourself whether you must follow the dictates of your conscience, or the laws. Freedom is not free, as the man says.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 7:39:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 7:34:38 AM EDT by Ian]
Another point to think about: When a private business owner posts a sign that says "No Firearms," aren't they violating your constitutional right to defend yourself? This would be especially true in the case of someone confined to a wheelchair. Ian
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 7:50:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ian: Another point to think about: When a private business owner posts a sign that says "No Firearms," aren't they violating your constitutional right to defend yourself? This would be especially true in the case of someone confined to a wheelchair. Ian
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1) the Consitution protects citizens from the goverment, not other citizens. 2) I as owner of a property get to impose my rules on my property.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 7:52:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: 1) the Consitution protects citizens from the goverment, not other citizens. 2) I as owner of a property get to impose my rules on my property.
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I tend to disagree, taking away someones civil rights should not be at the discression of the property owner.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:02:09 AM EDT
So if PETA came over your house and protested in your bedroom claiming free speech rights you would be ok with that?? I think not. The Consitution applies to the power of the people and governmental, set-up, power, and restrictions. It doesn't impose itself in the relationships of citizens. If I invite you over my house and I find your conduct objectionable, you will be asked to leave. If you claim 1st amendement restrictions blah, blah, blah, you will be shown the door. I am the king in the OLY-M4gery land, just like if i was in Ian land your are the monarch.....
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:06:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 8:05:01 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Ian, a private property owner can issue all the restrictions he/she wants to. It is THEIR property, after all. If I say that someone who drives a particular brand of car cannot come onto my property, then they can't. That may seem silly, but I am within my property rights to make such a restriction if I see fit. I can take away all the civil rights I want to on my property and someone has the choice of not coming onto my property if they don't like my rules. Having said that, I believe that a lot of businesses need to get over their phobia of law abiding people with a gun. Now, forbidding someone to carry on public transportation is a violation of civil rights. Hell, public trans is one of the more dangerous places in any city and I will carry regardless of their restrictions. I am within my rights since it it PUBLIC property, not private.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:12:18 AM EDT
Here are my thoughts. Are you really talking about a concealed weapon? Ok to me it means concealed, again concealed, that means no one sees it. And if they can’t see it then how would someone else know you are carrying one? So the if you really did have a need to pull and use it, well I’d worry about that after the fact. I worked for the feds for 23 years and after the OK City bombing I carried one for a couple of weeks, no one knew. Hence the term “concealed” [}:(]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:13:46 AM EDT
The terrorists don't care about laws, civil liberties, etc. I would suggest you follow the law within the constraints of how threatened/comfortable you feel regarding another attack...you are responsible for your own safety the cops are not. They only have a general responsibilty to protect the public. However, this does not mean you should stretch/break the law. That is very thin ice you will be walking on. If you are stopped by an "understanding & sympathetic" LEO you may be ok...if he/she follows the laws by the book, you could end up in hot water. btw, I doubt that anything you carry on you would really stop another mass terrorist attack. Single psycho maybe...but we do not have access to arms that will stop another plane or bomb or etc. Carrying "just" a firearm might make you feel better but I doubt it will stop a radical bent on destruction. Just my 2C worth. Stay safe.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:17:10 AM EDT
Well said Royal Lancer. Don't ask, Don't Tell.
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