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Posted: 10/3/2001 12:29:58 PM EDT
I am a Texas CHL holder. I currently work for an employer who is anti-gun. Signs are posted and company policy specifically states that one cannot carry on the premises, including parking lots. If caught (I have been carrying at work for the past three years), I could be fired. 1. How many others have this challenge, and how do you deal with it? 2. If you carry in this situation, how (i.e., on-body, off-body, in desk, etc.)? 3. What do you carry?
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:33:17 PM EDT
I prefer to refer to areas such as this is victim hunting grounds, and you're the prey. Hmmmmm..... why do all the mass shootings happen at places where people are not allowed to defend themselves??? schools..... Chicago..... D.C......... Kalifornia... hmmmmmmm..... Can anyone tell me of the last time a mass murderer targeted a gun range????
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:35:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2001 12:33:46 PM EDT by schapman43]
I also work for a company that has a policy against guns on their property but here in WY. The policy says nothing about rules being different if you have a ccw. Anyway, what really gets me is the director regularly has a shotgun in the rack in his pickup and is said to keep a Tec-9 under his front seat ( Why anyone would want a tec-9 is beyond me but thats besides the point ). So maybe the rules just dont apply to certain people.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:36:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308win: 1. How many others have this challenge, and how do you deal with it?
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"Don't ask, don't tell." Even when the employee parks his pickup truck in the company parking lot and you can plainly see the shotgun hanging in the gun rack across the back window.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:39:33 PM EDT
I think that (1.) continue carrying in spite of company policy. The company is NOT going to protect you if some wacko goes postal. (2.) A list of UNFRIENDLY CHL Employers should be generated, for the purposes of boycott.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:41:42 PM EDT
Our main office has the "no gun" decals on the entrance windows, but there is no official policy. Since I've given half the regional office the NRA pistol course, there's not really much of an issue here. Nevertheless, I don't advertise the fact that I carry. I also vary the way I carry based on weahter and clothing. Somtimes it's on my person, sometimes in my briefcase. One thing is always certain, it's within arms reach.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:43:38 PM EDT
When was the last "Shootout" at a "Gunshow"?
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:47:58 PM EDT
my understading is that the [B] no guns[/B] sign alone is not enough to legally stop from carrying. You will still get fired, just not arressted. Now if the sign says [b]no guns [/b] and has the law number to go with it, ur sol... company does have the right to have a building full of confirmed unarmed victums and u have the right to seek employment elsewhere... this is how HR explained it to me.... [:(!]
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:48:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2001 12:46:08 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By 308win: I am a Texas CHL holder. I currently work for an employer who is anti-gun. Signs are posted and company policy specifically states that one cannot carry on the premises, including parking lots. If caught (I have been carrying at work for the past three years), I could be fired. 1. How many others have this challenge, and how do you deal with it?
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Congratulations! According to the latest DPS figures, there are over 217,000 of us now. My wife is going to get her's too. Company policy is company policy, and if caught you will have to suffer the consequences. However, that is not a criminal act unless they have the official sign mentioned in state law (forget the exact statute), at which point you have just committed criminal trespass. The same would hold true if they found out that you were carrying and fired you and you lingered on the property (basically this is stuff you covered in your CHL class). Currently, I do not carry on my person where I'm working, because the risks are too great, and I wouldn't be successful in concealing with the dress code of the group I'm working with. However, I keep my knife and my multi-tool on me, and am not far from a weapon if the need to defend myself should arise. I also know where to hide or get to for the tactical advantage if TSHTF. I'm about 20 seconds from a very secure area, and would be able to hide under the raised floor tiles if necessary.
2. If you carry in this situation, how (i.e., on-body, off-body, in desk, etc.)?
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Off-body and in the trunk while on the job. They do not have the right to search my vehicle. However, if I had to carry, I'd do it in one of those two compartment dayplanners. In a corporate environment no one would ever suspect you unless you showed it off or they had one themselves.
3. What do you carry?
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While working, only my knife and multi-tool, as previously mentioned. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:49:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:51:01 PM EDT
I have that same problem too. I usually keep my gun in the car. If I think I will need my weapon in the office I just make damn sure not to get caught!!!
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:57:47 PM EDT
One of my challenges is how to carry in business (casual) atire. I think that if I wear a vest or a fanny pack inside at work everyday, people will figure it out. Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 12:58:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:13:01 PM EDT
My wife and I both work where there are "No Guns" signs posted. In my case it is just the company covering thier own a** in case something happens. My direct supervisor and I bring guns to work to show each other, we just don't flaunt it. There is also talk they are reconsidering the policy since 9.11. We are in an industry that is considered a possible target. My wife works for a strong pro-gun doctor. The building his office is in has the signs posted but he says they aren't going to tell him what to in his own office. Both he and my wife have thier carry permits.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:17:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308win: One of my challenges is how to carry in business (casual) atire. I think that if I wear a vest or a fanny pack inside at work everyday, people will figure it out. Any suggestions?
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The gun day planner or the pager pal should work for you. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:18:04 PM EDT
I guess the choice comes down to losing my job (for carrying against co. policy), or losing my life (by not being able to defend myself, should the need arise). Guess which way I will choose.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:37:51 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2001 1:47:42 PM EDT by e8ght]
I try not to help antigun companies. If company policy forbids me to carry at work then I won't carry at work. Let unarmed rent-a-cops making minimum wage handle any and all security problems. Ironically, some of our security guards are also shooters - but they still can't carry anything more useful than a flashlight due to company policy. Edited to add that screwdrivers are usually not prohibited.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 1:57:54 PM EDT
e8ght My company does not have any security guards. That combined with denying the employees the ability to carry legally without risking loss of their job is a real problem. I suppose that the only way they might learn and change their foolish ways would be for me to be killed by a BG on company property. Then my wife could sue the company for preventing me from defending myself and their inability to provide a secure work environment.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 3:02:12 PM EDT
hell in az all they need is a sign up that says no guns and legaly you cant have a gun there. course very few places have the sign up
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 3:06:23 PM EDT
In Texas, the sign has to conform to the law, and most places that have the "No guns allowed" sign don't follow the law. The letters have to be a certain size and it has to reference the specific section in the Texas Penal Code. It's one of the parts of the CHL laws I really like, as it means the sign my employer posts saying "No hanguns allowed, including CHL holders" means absolutely nothing to the State of Texas. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 3:12:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 3:18:52 PM EDT
I work for a major defense contractor and they have the no guns allowed on company property. Worse yet is I have to submit to a personal and vehicle search via a spot search from security. I can't even keep a pistol or a long gun in my truck to go to the range in the afternoon. I have to drop my guns with a buddy the day before so I can have an afternoon at the range. Worse yet is ... if TS were to actually HTF I have to rely on pinkerton rent a cops to stop the threat. I know of one of them ... only one who is an actual firearms enthusiast and practices regularly. The rest of them have guns rusted in their holsters or ammo that's god knows how old. If I were to carry a firearm on company property and be discovered I would loose my job and possibly have my US clearance revoked for violating company policy. Hmm... we develop weapons for the military, but I'm not trustworthy enough to be responsible for my own personal protection. What BS! Ryan
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 4:04:05 PM EDT
My employer is anti-gun as well. Doesn't matter though, since I work in Md. and my CCL is for Pa.. I have a company vehicle and instead of a firearm, I have a very large, very sharp Bowie knife beside the left side of my seat. I also have a large can of OC and a baseball bat. I work in the city, so things can go bad without warning. One thing I've learned is that if you're not in uniform {ala LEO}, it pays to look a little scruffy or maybe even crazy. As the old saying goes, if you look like food, you will be eaten. No suits, ties, or even dockers. Just jeans, Harley shirts, chains, boots, long(ish) hair, and a confident face. Never show fear. Been doing it this way for a few years and have had no problems other than one attempted mugging back in 1997. There WAS one incident though, last winter, I was out in the middle of the night for a fiber cable cut near Goddard Space Flight Center, outside of DC. The Md. State Police has a barracks nearby and our cable, for some inexplicable reason, goes into their barracks to a patch panel and splice tray. I needed to get in there to help isolate the break so I just went walking in the front door, looking confident as usual, but thinking nothing about my appearance. The desk officer jumped, put his hand on his pistol and began to back away from me. I immediately smiled, put my hands up, and told him who I was and showed my ID. After he calmed down for a minute or so, I had access. We joked about it later before I left. Worked for him so I guess it has some effect on bad people too.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 5:00:11 PM EDT
I leave it in the car. My old job was downtown, so I took the bus. No carry on the bus. It sucks. There are tons of cases where a CHL could have saved the day. Too much fear and stupidity.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 5:48:18 PM EDT
My company does not have any security guards. That combined with denying the employees the ability to carry legally without risking loss of their job is a real problem. I suppose that the only way they might learn and change their foolish ways would be for me to be killed by a BG on company property. Then my wife could sue the company for preventing me from defending myself and their inability to provide a secure work environment.
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That is the same situation with my employer and I told my family to sue the shit out of them if I am killed at work.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 7:23:07 PM EDT
Mark my word - once a pro RKBA family who has lost a loved one due to some idiot at their place of work sues the crap out of the company and wins, things could change. My family has the same instructions - get a lawyer and grudge f*ck my employer (former employer - since I'll be dead). Tate
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 7:43:33 PM EDT
My prior employment handbook stated a "No Weapons" policy, this was supposed to be geared to any weapon - definitions conveniently not supplied. Since there were no "30.06" signs posted, employees were prohibited from carry while valid CHL visitors were ok. Sometimes it is too much work to explain to HR why the situation appears funny. We did have a site (25 stories tall) accross from the Governor's mansion while Bush was living there. Periodically we brought firearms in for security; auto breakins were just too common on the street. We exercised good judgement and quit bringing them in as the campaign heated up. 308 - Have you seen the notebook computer cases designed with a holster pocket? This won't let you carry inside very far, but will keep you concealed in your office. Dillon has one in the catalog. Rotating methods of carry may also keep your coworkers in the dark.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 8:50:49 PM EDT
WARNING: Talk big.. Lose your job. Legal or not. Legal or not, big companies -state government can find ways to hurt you.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 8:58:46 PM EDT
Its not carrying in work that concerns me. Its the trip to and from work. Getting off at 1am and driving home it would be nice to have it around.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:07:54 PM EDT
Brings to mind that saying: Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6. I can't wait till I have enough money, that I can afford the luxury of civil disobediance.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:30:47 PM EDT
My employer has the "no guns" signs and a no guns on company property policy. I have a CHL and carry a Springfield TRP 1911 in a IWB everywhere except at work, it sits in the car. At work, I carry a Kahr P7 in a deep concealment rig. I work at a financial institution so it is a target for armed robbery. I would not use my weapon to stop a robbery, but I would use it to save my life if need be. Better to be alive and fired than dead and "retired". I have also advised my family to sue the shit out of the company should anything happen to me, for not allowing me to properly defend myself. When will they understand that we (CHL holders) are not the people they need to fear?
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:43:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308win: One of my challenges is how to carry in business (casual) atire. I think that if I wear a vest or a fanny pack inside at work everyday, people will figure it out. Any suggestions?
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Try one of the Dillon Computer bags. Has a hidden speed zippered compartment in the center for a handgun. Really designed well. I switched to one from my regular brief case and use it every day.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 10:15:08 PM EDT
... little of this applies if you work for a large Defense Contractor.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 10:51:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... little of this applies if you work for a large Defense Contractor.
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True, I suppose I am lucky to work in a remote office for a large corporation. I have been to numerous military and defense sites that have had multiple security checkpoints, required FBI clearances, etc., where you couldn't even bring anything on the property. Nice to work at a place where I can carry.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 10:53:51 PM EDT
I will not work in an "Anti" establishment.My boss does not "allow" us to carry, we are encouraged. Safest restaurant/bar in town.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:56:25 AM EDT
I like the idea of getting a smaller, more concealable carry weapon for "deep cover" {i.e., at work). Any suggestions on a good, effective weapon that is very easily concealed?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:08:25 AM EDT
The properly attired executive should always carry a lockable brief case. Hmmm...What could be in there?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 9:53:22 AM EDT
I would never carry a gun in anything like a briefcase or dayplanner because it is too easy to leave it somewhere. I don't like carrying something as small as a 32 so my solution is a 38 snub in a pocket holser. It does bulge, but it does not look like a gun -- more like a wallet because of the holster design. I've been carrying it for 2 years in a very anti-gun business and nobody has seen it. My boss knows that I am into firearms and even he never noticed. The best gun in my opinion is the Kahr in 40. The new Polymer P40 Covert (which I just ordered) is very light and the same size as a snub revolver with the best ballistics in its size. The 40 is rated just barely below the 45 in stopping power.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 11:20:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 11:15:28 AM EDT by 308win]
I frequently carry a S&W (gasp!) 642 .38spl +P revolver. Being of smaller stature, my pockets are not as large as I would like to conceal it in a pocket holster, which I have. This is particularly a problem when wearing jeans or light-colored pants.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 10:18:40 PM EDT
My ex-employer was extremely anti-gun, AND all of their "security guards" were required to be unarmed. Hee-hee. I sure felt safe, especially when some deranged purse-snatcher was running around the building for several weeks, after having stolen someone's security badge (really). As far as carrying at work despite such a policy, while I would never, ever, under any circumstances commit such a horrible violation of my sacred contract with any employer of mine, nor advise anyone else even to remotely consider such a despicable act: nobody knows whether that bulge in your pants is a cellphone or a gun, as long as it doesn't start ringing in the middle of a meeting. Or hey, maybe you're just happy to see your boss! [sex]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:02:26 AM EDT
A friend of mine always carries a N.A.A. .22Mag mini-revolver [url]http://www.naaminis.com/[/url], in addition to his main carry weapon. What is your opinion on the effectiveness of a short-barreled .22Mag single-action revolver for close-in defense? I realize there is a very big trade-off in ballistic performance for concealability. But, if it is the only thing that one could easily conceal in a CHL-unfriendly workplace, it is an option I am considering.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:59:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: ...nobody knows whether that bulge in your pants is a cellphone or a gun, as long as it doesn't start ringing in the middle of a meeting. Or hey, maybe you're just happy to see your boss!
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LOL, my boss is female...
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