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Posted: 9/28/2001 9:41:37 PM EDT
I have not heard of anyone discussing this. Although I don't totally rule out females as Sky Marshalls, I would lean towards males only. For these reasons. 1. Might have to fight hand to hand combat with dirtbags. Women have less muscle mass and would likely be overwhelmed physically much more rapidly. 2. Will have to make a quick decision to shoot quickly without any emotions coming into play. I believe a male is a little bit better at using extreme force more quickly and efficiently. 3. I believe the Sky Marshalls to be a combination of Army Delta , undercover cop, and medic. Undercover like a Delta member. Having multiple weapons proficiency with people in the way. I believe men in general make better trained officers when multiple weapons systems might be employed. Examples such as Delta and Swat teams. The Sky Marshall might have to switch from handgun to knife to hands to maybe a MP5 to a pencil. Most women just don't get into the intense training and being proficient in the ways of up close and intense violence. I believe there a lot of women who are good with a pistol in order to protect themselves, but its a little a different when you are 20,000 plus feet in the air in a jet full of people and the bullets and fists start flying. This not a [flame] on women, in fact I wish more women carried concealed firearms. I just don't believe women would be a good choice for this job. Men and women were not created equal or we would share the same rest rooms. No slack!
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:43:47 PM EDT
male only, without doubt.
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:45:50 PM EDT
I take a big second on that, and I'm a female. Definitely male territory.
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:46:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: male only, without doubt.
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Ditto.
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:48:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2001 9:49:37 PM EDT by lordtrader]
Originally Posted By MatthewDaugherty: 1. Might have to fight hand to hand combat with dirtbags. Women have less muscle mass and would likely be overwhelmed physically much more rapidly. 2. Will have to make a quick decision to shoot quickly without any emotions coming into play. I believe a male is a little bit better at using extreme force more quickly and efficiently. 3. I believe the Sky Marshalls to be a combination of Army Delta , undercover cop, and medic. Undercover like a Delta member. Having multiple weapons proficiency with people in the way. I believe men in general make better trained officers when multiple weapons systems might be employed. Examples such as Delta and Swat teams. The Sky Marshall might have to switch from handgun to knife to hands to maybe a MP5 to a pencil. Most women just don't get into the intense training and being proficient in the ways of up close and intense violence. I believe there a lot of women who are good with a pistol in order to protect themselves, but its a little a different when you are 20,000 plus feet in the air in a jet full of people and the bullets and fists start flying.
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Depends on the woman. 1) I've sparred against women while in the martial arts, and some can kick some major ass. 2) Most women can cold blooded. I know. I've dated a few of them in my 34yrs on this earth. 3) Nah, my understanding is they are just undercover cops inside planes. Not the Wesley Snipes/Bruce Lee/James Bond/Rambo Combination. I am sure they will get special training for the environment they work in though. Some women are suited for combat. Although fewer that men.
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:52:23 PM EDT
i think there should be standard minimum requirements. if a woman meets these requirements (could be a dike) or better, then she should not be turned down. i want a Kung Fu chick as my personal bodyguard [:D][:D][:D] Ju-jitsu being the best martial art for close in fighting. does not always require great strenght, but still very effective. greetings Red Dawn. are you red headded? Womans lib
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:56:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2001 9:56:21 PM EDT by MatthewDaugherty]
Nice to know there is another female on board. Red Dawn get ready for the assault now we know you are a female. I guess I might as well ask now. What part of Florida are you from? I was raised in Tampa. Speaking of females, what ever happened to Miss Magnum? Its like she tuned in and then dropped out. No Slack!
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 9:58:33 PM EDT
MMMM.... I love redheads. I go cuckooo for redheads. [panting heavily]
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 10:06:23 PM EDT
I predict that Females will get preferential hiring for the job. They are a minority, you know?
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 10:10:01 PM EDT
... Yes ... and I wanna sit next to her next week!
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 10:11:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2001 10:13:02 PM EDT by shooter505]
Wrong Matthew!! I know a Sargent on the Denver PD that could probably kick your ass. And not only that she is a knock out blond. The best person for this job is a well trained individual. Nothing against red heads they are great also!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2001 10:11:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 12:47:04 AM EDT
Shooter, I said I'm not totally against having women as Sky Marshall's. I will say it would be very few women that could kick my arse. Maybe this female cop could if she was a professional boxer, otherwise I serioulsy doubt it. Sure there are some female cops out there that are good with a handgun. Once the fight became hand to hand the woman is going to loose almost every time. Being a good cop and good with a hand gun is one thing, but being able to eliminate highjackers is another thing. You missed my point. Sure the women would have the element of surprise. If there were multiple targets and some which are unknown her initial surprise might not be enough. I want someone that can be just as ruthless as the terrorist and usually that would be a male. Hey if the women can pass whatever standards and training that is required that's okay with me. The vast majority will be males I'm sure. No Slack!
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 2:18:37 AM EDT
OH NO YOU DIDN'T! Now why did you have to bring up the "dike" comment? I agree that IF the woman can meet the requirements then let'em at it! They should not be hired just because their women. I personally Fought hand to hand in my last job, and Hey guess what, I can shoot too!!! Now if you had mentioned women in front line combat.... I dont think they should be there at all no matter how bad ass they are.... just do to a monthly inconvienance (to be polite) that animals and some men can detect, would give them and everybody else away!
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 2:35:16 AM EDT
Males only. Having said that, I will admit that yesterday I set off the metal detector at the clerk of courts office (fast driving award) with the keys to my truck. The female deputy there most definately could've kicked my ass!! Damned pretty too. (picturing her in wonder woman costume........) [sex]
Speaking of females, what ever happened to Miss Magnum? Its like she tuned in and then dropped out.
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I believe Miss Magnum has found herself a mate to hang out with. Haven't heard much from her lately. She did respond to SWIRE's wommenz trouble post a day or two ago...
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 4:11:19 AM EDT
I'm guessing there are more than a few women in the Mossad, and I wouldn't bet against any of their agents, even up agianst a SEAL.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 4:48:02 AM EDT
If they qualify under the same conditions I wouldnt have a problem. Any sort of high risk job should have high standards and should not factor in race color or creed. Keep the standards high the training often and it shouldnt matter who tags the terr in the head ;o} Blue Skies, Ropes PS. I Want to design the female uniform - yes I am a pig no need to tell me I already know.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 4:54:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 5:19:05 AM EDT
whatever your opinion.....there WILL be females..................[sex]
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 5:31:37 AM EDT
My best friend is a US Marshal, she is cute and can kick ass, she is tougher than most of the guys in her office. I have taught many women juijitsu, they can be good fighters, takes the elimination of 'women are weakerattitudes' Also most men will let a woman get closer...sneaky works.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 6:52:15 AM EDT
You can bet that there will be females in the system. Most women who have the resolve to enter the trditional male job market are exceptional at it. Martial arts trained, weopons trained, they will make it. These marshalls will get some really extensive training and have skills above the regular cop on the street. I expect the women to be ready to do the job.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 6:59:54 AM EDT
If you've seen the old sky marshall videos showcasing the current(very few) sky marshalls on the news, you would notice that a couple are women. Women have been sky marshalls for years.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 11:01:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 11:23:57 AM EDT
She is HOT also wearing gi pants
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 11:26:01 AM EDT
BTW, the terrorists also will not pay attention to female sky marshals, as they are more sexist than American men, it is a real insult to them to get their ass kicked by a woman
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 12:06:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2001 12:07:05 PM EDT by Blonde_BombShell]
OK, a woman here, who disagrees with most of you sexist pigs on this particular post.. By the way, what about the woman who helped the three men down the plane in PA?? She wasn't strong enough eh.. She was a martial artist! PLUS, what about women like Chyna from WWF..she clearly has the muscle mass and the strength to over power a man a.k.a. hijackers.. I'd bet they be scared if they went toe to toe with her! Now me personally, I wouldn't apply to be a sky marshal because I am too small(5'3" 120lbs), but I don't see why ANY women shouldn't be allowed to be one.. I say if they can pass the tests than they are just as good if not better than a man..Some men can be pu$$ies in situations like that as women can so remember that! That's just my opinion and buy the way I want to own a gun; no feminist liberal here, just a woman sticking up for her own kind..[;)] -Andrea
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 12:16:20 PM EDT
Personally, I vote yes on female sky marshalls because I don't want to join the Mile High Club with someone who looks like hielo. [:P]
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 12:16:48 PM EDT
The "Sky Marshalls" aren't going to be of any use now (male, female or neuter)! Putting Air Marshalls on commercial craft is obviously a "knee jerk/feel good" measure! There will(are already) other "delivery systems" available. DaMan
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 1:08:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Malpaso: I'm guessing there are more than a few women in the Mossad, and I wouldn't bet against any of their agents, even up agianst a SEAL.
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I guess you haven't met any SEALs.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 1:59:44 PM EDT
... wanna read the FBI report of that infamous FedEx take over. This is spooky! [url]http://www.airlinepilots.com/Safety/FedExFlt705.pdf[/url] ... needs Acrobat Reader
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 2:07:30 PM EDT
If, and ONLY if they can meet the EXACT SAME standards as the men, not seperate standrards for women. Naturally this will eliminate most of the women for the job, but they should have the opportunity.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 2:35:19 PM EDT
Sky Marshals will be a part of flying whether you like it or not. Consider the Israeli paradigm. It works, though it's expensive and intrusive. None the less an effective A/C security program will eliminate (or substantially decrease) that particular delivery platform from the equation. Regarding women. They will be part of the Sky Marshall program in the same manner that they are part of the Presidential Secret Service detail. The right woman brings enormous benefits to the table. Key phrase being right woman. If the affirmative action template is used then the sky Marshall program will suffer. If the government is serious and spends the money in selection and assessment then the program will gain an advantage. As I've said before....Killer of the female gender are out there. Our society doesn’t routinely produce them in mass quantities but they exist. It is a matter of economics. If we spend the money we will find them. It will be disproportional expensive. The question that we have to answer is , Do the benefits outweigh the cost? I vote Yes. The pleasure that I would derive from a female agent blowing a terrs head off if immeasurable. Sends a clear message to the bad guys: The USA is on a wartime footing and we are lethal. All of us. GBA, Paul
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 3:02:45 PM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 7:48:12 PM EDT
Winston, thanks for that link. I jave never actually read the transcript. I can't believe they let that bastard survive.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 7:51:38 PM EDT
as long as they are capable( and good looking!!)
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 7:52:36 PM EDT
Someone earlier on this post stated that he has seen women in martial arts classes that kick ass. I am most surely confident that if I drilled them one in the nose they would have no fight left. The only women I would fear would be one of those East German weight lifters. Total PC crap about women being able to do male jobs that require brawn over brains. Eventualy this PC crap is gooing to get someone killed needlessly.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 10:06:32 PM EDT
Please, can I get arrested by a female officer? I will submit to a body cavity search.
Link Posted: 9/29/2001 10:45:33 PM EDT
I knew a marine cpl once, named Lee Burley, saw her break a guy's jaw when she was angry. she is 5 ft. 2in. and 100 lbs. I would trust her against any thug in the world.... great looking butt too...you can't supress the rath of an angry woman!
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 1:29:23 AM EDT
I say yes on female sky marshall as well. Several reasons: These muslim extremists are so far out there that they think very little of women. The nice young lady in first class will be ignored, until she starts double tapping terrorists. Women are generally a bit more capable of the precision shooting required in such a situation. However, it may be just a function of the very best showing up in the sample. Sky marshalls should represent as broad a sample of gender/race/clothing style/appearance as possible. Do you really want all the skymarshals to be 25 year old 6'2 white boys with crewcuts? I understand the concern about a physical struggle, be it with drunken passengers or whatever. If the female marshall can meet the same standards as the men, whats the problem? There are plenty of women capable of winning such a physical confrontation. I keep thinking of a certain pixie-ish female RCMP officer (with braces yet!) that terrified the local criminal biker gang element. IIRC she denied swallowing the biker's ear she bit off in a bar fight she stopped.
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 1:58:43 AM EDT
I belive that what Lord Grey said is 100% correct. The terrorists have no respect for women as adversaries. The Sky Marshalls need to blend in as much as possible. I think that everyone would agree that anyone resembling the "body type," as far as the terrorists are concerned, of cop/special forces/military would be first targeted as hostile by any terrorist. As long as the requirements are the same for all marshalls and not down graded for females in order to meet a quota, then we should let anyone in the program.
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 3:33:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 4:40:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2001 4:40:45 AM EDT by AAA]
Yes... If someone is qualified let them do the job. Two of the best shooters I know are women.
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 7:39:20 AM EDT
There's a real practical reason for having female sky marshals: It doubles the possibilities when a dirtbag trys to figure out who his opponent is. Otherwise he just looks for the men. And a female can look like half of a couple. That adds confusion. But they absolutely must meet exactly the same standards as the men. The standards cannot be lowered to allow women to meet them (unlike what's happened in the military).
Link Posted: 9/30/2001 8:15:45 AM EDT
This debate reminds me of a time I shot my mouth off. Out of the blue, I asserted to my family, "No woman can beat me up." I got a small amount of argument from some present, after which the discussion subsided. After this boast, I began noticing all the tough women around. I began to see a lot of women built like bears, walking around. After a short while, I decided that there are actually plenty of tough, scarey women I wouldn't want to fight, probably 1 woman in 30 or 50. If I close my eyes, I can still see the 6 foot tall, 200 lb. "linebacker" of a Mexican woman steaming past me with an angry scowl on her face. If she had been coming for me, I'd have picked up a weapon!
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:17:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: If they can do the job, of course.
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Amen, brother. When it all goes down, I don't care who is doing the job - Male or Female, Pink, Blue, Black, White, Yellow, or Brown. As long as the job is done properly. Tyler
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:22:20 AM EDT
The Feds will not discriminate on the basis of gender. If she qualifies, meets the criteria, passes the examinations, I'm all for it. GI Janes do exist & some can definitely kick terrorist (or other) arse! I have no problem with female Sky Marshalls.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 8:27:14 AM EDT
For curiosity's sake, how do those of you who are against female sky marshalls feel about female police officers?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 9:40:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 9:58:35 AM EDT by MatthewDaugherty]
Well as my original topic states, I'm not totally against the idea of female Sky Marshals, but I did give my reasons why it might be a great idea. It would take an extraordinary woman I feel to be a good Sky Marshal. People can say all they want they know women who are great shots with a pistol. So is that all that is needed is to be a great shot. I don't think so. Most people with enough training can be taught to shoot well. Most women will not win in a hand to hand combat situation with average sized male. When is the last time you heard of a female (besides freaks such as Chyna) beating up a male, let alone kill one. As for female cops I do not have a problem with that. Female cops have a disadvantage when it comes to subduing a male, but they usually have backup on the way. I have a friend that was on the Atlanta Police Department for many years and had this to say. This is just an example and does not apply to all female cops. Many times when a female police officer was closest to an armed suspect call they would delay until a male officer showed up and then try to act all bad arse. Saying you know some women who is a good shot or can kick some man's ass are not good reasons and are your own opinion. No Slack!
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 9:52:15 AM EDT
Uh.....no time for the old in out love,I'm just here to read the meter!
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 9:57:27 AM EDT
If the female applicant could beat SteyrAUG in an anything-goes match, I wouldnt have a problem with her. Kharn
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 10:43:41 AM EDT
I have met plenty of women that were more vicious and cold blooded than any suicidal terrorist. However, I have not come accross too many that were skilled in armed and unarmed combat. If a woman is well trained and capable, I do think she should have the opportunity. There is a mental element to conflict resolution that should not be forgotten, and I think many women are more skilled in these methods than their male counterparts.
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