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Posted: 9/26/2001 8:09:50 AM EDT
[newbie] A good day to all. A friend of mine has introduced me to the AR-15 and I think I want one! But before I do, I want to get the advice and opinions of experts. My rifle experience ranges from SKS, MAK-90 and Mini-14 for about 2 years. I have basic knowledge on how the AR-15 operates. Now which is better, Colt or Bushmaster? What do need to look for? The questions may seem too vague but I'd appreciate any input. Thank you.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:26:19 AM EDT
In MY opinion, what is best is Rock River Arms...because the quality is equal or superior to the Bushmaster, but the price is lower. Bushy is what the US Military uses, so you are paying for the name. Others will say that Armalite is good too...just more expensive than all mentioned. On a postban rifle...I'd stay away from Colt and Olympic Arms.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:32:37 AM EDT
In a pre-ban, Colt is tops, followed by Eagle Arms (pre-Armalite), Bushmaster and PWA, in no particular order. In a post ban the Armalites are hands down the best I've seen as far as fit and finish. They ooze quality! I have seen the Rock River lowers and they look about as well finished as Armalite at a much lower cost. The latest Bushmasters I've seen all appear about average, same as the post ban Colts, nothing special. Oly's are, well, cheap in both look and feel. The flattop carbine is probably the most useful as far as flexibility, but for a general shooter the full length rifle in a flattop config is tough to beat, unless house clearing is near the top of your list, and the Marines have figured out how to do that, too, with full size rifles.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:42:47 AM EDT
You can't lose with a RRA,Bushmaster of Colt. Anyone will do.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:45:06 AM EDT
Welcome, You "think you want one"? nah. you "know you want one". What kind are you thinking of getting? Carbine, Rifle, bull barrel varmint? your other guns will gather dust once you get one. I would go with Bushmaster, Armalite, or Rock River. Get 'em while you can!!!!! -Bricklayer
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:47:07 AM EDT
Pre-Ban:Colt or Bushmaster Post Ban: Do yourself a favor and buy Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:48:39 AM EDT
Get any one you want, because you'll soon have all makers and configurations anyway! [bounce] I started off with a Colt and now have oodles of clones, barrel lengths, configurations etc. They're fun.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:51:38 AM EDT
Bushmaster or Rock River...both excellent choices. Check out www.castle-arms.com. They have an excellent deal on a RRA Limited Edition. Either way....you will probably end up with more than one... [:D]
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:53:43 AM EDT
The others are right. If you're trying to decide between Colt and Bushmaster, grab the first one of either that catches your fancy. You'll end up getting the other later on anyway. There are countless different configurations available. Just remember, you're looking for your first AR. There will likely be more. Swapping uppers is another quick, easy way to have something different. It's like an addiction. The only difference is that you join the support group before getting hooked and none of us will ever tell you that you've had too many. [:)]
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 9:04:51 AM EDT
In order: 1. Bushmaster 2. Bushmaster 3. Bushmaster 4. Bushmaster 5. Bushmaster 6. Bushmaster 7. Bushmaster 8. Bushmaster 9. Armalite 10.Rock River Arms Bushmaster is a less expensive, milspec, high quality tack-driver and you'll get superior customer service (ask any colt and bushy owner). Bushy has less resale value than Colt, but you pay for Colt's name...besides, you will NEVER sell it anyway.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:32:36 AM EDT
[b]Bushmaster[/b] [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:36:58 AM EDT
I own a post-ban Armalite & Bushmaster. My friend has a pre-ban Colt that I've fired on many occasions. I find the only difference is in the flash suppressor on the Colt. Otherwise, they're pretty comparable in terms of quality, etc. Still, for no discernible reason, if I could only have one of them, I'd keep the Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:42:47 AM EDT
Bushmaster all the way.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:55:07 AM EDT
bushmaster
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 12:00:40 PM EDT
Oh, I forgot to tell you to stay away from Hesse Arms and National Ordnance Corp and Century. As my Iowegian gun slingin' friend used to say: ! B A R U M S E SH T BOOOOSHMASTER![bounce]
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 1:07:27 PM EDT
Thanks for all you have replied so far. I really appreciate it. Anyway, I have my eye on the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine. What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 1:11:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WilDJ: Thanks for all you have replied so far. I really appreciate it. Anyway, I have my eye on the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine. What do you guys think?
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That is a flat top right? What optics are you going to put on it?
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 1:24:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RoyDamnMercer: Bushmaster is a less expensive, milspec, high quality tack-driver and you'll get superior customer service (ask any colt and bushy owner).
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WHAT?!?! Why would you want to settle for Mil-Spec when you can have one that EXCEEDS milspec?! And less expensive? No sir, Rock River Arms wins in both categories. Re-read the 3rd post...from Cerberus. Good advice.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 2:10:50 PM EDT
Per the Bushmaster's website: A new model from Bushmaster, this XM15 E2S M4 Type Post-Ban Carbine features a lightweight 14.5" Barrel machined in the distinctive M4 profile with a permanently attached Mini Y Comp muzzle brake. This configuration yields a total barrel length of 16" to comply with Post-Ban regulations. A BATF approved fixed tele-style buttstock is added to complete the military look of this new carbine. The 14.5" barrel is chrome lined in both bore and chamber for maximum longevity and ease of maintenance. The barrel's button rifling, in a 1 x 9" right hand twist, will stabilize a wide range of currently available ammunition with bullet weights up to 69 grains. The M16A2 dual aperture, rear sight system offers both windage and elevation adjustments - elevation is calibrated from 300 to 800 meters. The two different apertures give either a short range, quick target acquisition sight picture or a smaller “peep” aperture for long distance accuracy. The tele-stock style buttstock is pinned and fixed in an “open” position and has been BATF approved for use on Post-Ban manufactured carbines. As with all other Bushmasters, the forged 7075T6 aircraft quality aluminum receivers are finished in a non-reflective mil. spec. hard anodize for durability, and include all M16A2 design improvements such as cartridge case deflector, last round bolt hold-open and raised ridges for magazine release button protection. A mil. spec. manganese phosphate coating insures complete protection against corrosion or rust on barrel and other exposed steel parts of the weapon. The M4-16 Carbine is shipped in a lockable, hard plastic case - complete with 10 round magazine, carrying sling, and Operator's Safety and Instruction Manual.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 2:26:52 PM EDT
I thought FN was supplying the military contracts?
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 2:42:42 PM EDT
Go with the Bushy. [heavy]
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 2:47:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WilDJ: Thanks for all you have replied so far. I really appreciate it. Anyway, I have my eye on the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine. What do you guys think?
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Before you decide I would give some thoght to how you plan to use this rifle and whether or not you plan to ever use a scope on it. The model you are considering is not a flat top but it doesn't matter if you are using iron sights. It depends on what you want...
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 2:57:42 PM EDT
Buy a Bushmaster you want regret it. In case you doubt me here are a few reasons. customer service chrome lined bore & chamber 5.56mm Chamber mil spec finish mil spec parts mil spec upper and lower receiver mil spec take down pins All of these will be found with every Bushmaster. Now I own a mil spec Colt 614 (M16)but that is a different story. Most Colt's lack several of the aforementioned items unless you want to get into title two weapons. Really it all depends on what you want your rifle for. The Azalin
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 3:05:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WilDJ: Thanks for all you have replied so far. I really appreciate it. Anyway, I have my eye on the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine. What do you guys think?
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Well, since you asked... If you are gonna go the [b][i]post ban[/b][/i] carbine route, the A3 flattop upper is the way to go, but in my experience there are two things you should consider: 1) The muzzle brakes make the gun VERY LOUD! YOU WILL NOT MAKE ANY FRIENDS ON THE RANGE, oh sorry, I couldn't hear. If you ever shoot without ear protection in the field or, God forbid, inside a building if you ever had to, your hearing will surely suffer. They do reduce recoil to nearly nothing, though. I would get the gun with no muzzle device at all. Flash may be a factor, but I can live with flash. 2) The non-telescoping post-ban "CAR" stock is not as comfortable as the standard fixed A2. You will shoot better with the A2 stock. I have seen photos on a Navy commo guys site with real M4's, inservice with operational units, where guys have replaced the tele-stock with fixed A1 & A2 stocks. Seems to work for them, and they can have anything they want. So, I would say get the A3 Carbine, either HBAR or M4 barrel config, fixed stock, no brake, and you will have a great shooter. True, you lose a little of the "cool factor" in appearance, but if thats important, shell out the money for a pre-ban and enjoy all the evil features.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 5:32:03 PM EDT
Build your own. Gets you up close and personal and gives a feeling of accomplishment. Bushmaster lower, J&T kit worked for me.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 5:49:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By styles: I thought FN was supplying the military contracts?
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That's what I thunk too! Although Bushy had a previous contract as well as Colt...with Armalite designing the thing. Doesn't the military still have several makes in current inventory? I am sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong (I should hope so, anyway!) BTW...First person that brings up Mattel gets a laser dot 'tween the cheeks...if'n you know what I mean!!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:06:57 PM EDT
Fabrique Nationale has/had the current M16 contract as of 1/01. It may have changed since then. FN doesn't sell to civvies. I've never heard of quality complaints with the Colt. Bushmaster has a very good rep, but goes through patches of small qc issues. I love my Colt sporter lightweight pre-ban. All of the Armalite rifles I have seen have been good quality. I have a DPMS panther bull 16, and its very nice, once you get past the funky finish they put on the receivers (upper and lower). Fat vented barrel, I can heat it up and still keep tight groups. Can't speak to the others.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 8:35:35 PM EDT
I started out with a Bushmaster 20" HBAR, and I love it. I also am really impressed with RRA. Like some others have said: You're eventually going to have several ARs. You have so many choices of configurations in just rifles. Then you have to look at how many configurations of sighting systems there are. At the very least you'll need room for ten ARs :^) Pirate
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 9:35:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WilDJ: Thanks for all you have replied so far. I really appreciate it. Anyway, I have my eye on the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine. What do you guys think?
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BAM! It's da shit. Get it. You will NOT be sorry.
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:23:10 PM EDT
Yep, go w/ the BM; I assure you it'll be true love!
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 10:33:26 PM EDT
BM stands for bushmaster, Colt stands for bowel movement, go with the BUSHMASTER.[:D]
Link Posted: 9/27/2001 5:52:45 AM EDT
Alright now, you guys got me thinking. If I am thinking of putting accesories on the prospect rifle in the near future (on which I surely will), will the BushMaster XM15 E2S M4 Type 16in Carbine still be the good way to start of? With accesories I am talking about a red-dot scope and other stuff. On the scope issue, I fully understand now that a flat top is the only way to go. I might drop by Cheaper Than Dirt today to see what they have in stock.
Link Posted: 9/27/2001 2:12:25 PM EDT
The best prices I have found on quality optics (the only kind worth buying) are at SWFA [url]www.riflescopes.com[/url] That's where I picked up my Aimpont CompM for the lowest price anywhere. Ask for Chris, he'll get you hooked up with whatever you need. If you are set on the XM15-E2S M4 carbine, for sure get the flattop and order an extra full length A2 stock. You will be a happy guy indeed.
Link Posted: 9/27/2001 2:30:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Originally Posted By RoyDamnMercer: Bushmaster is a less expensive, milspec, high quality tack-driver and you'll get superior customer service (ask any colt and bushy owner).
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WHAT?!?! Why would you want to settle for Mil-Spec when you can have one that EXCEEDS milspec?! And less expensive? No sir, Rock River Arms wins in both categories. Re-read the 3rd post...from Cerberus. Good advice.
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BS! Define "Mil-Spec". In the case of civilian vs. military differences, I would say that it means having every military feature not forbidden by law, ie: no autosear. Bushmaster is closer to actual milspec than RRA by quite a lot. RRA has NO chromed chamber or bore, a military specification. Therefore, your statement that RRA exceeds mil-spec is BS, they don't even meet it. I'm not sure what your definition of "Mil-Spec" is, but if it means meeting US military specifications for the M16 and M4 as closley as legally possible, they don't. Oh, and did I mention that the rails of RRA flattop uppers are out of spec for Piccatinny rail sizing and spacing? Go Bushmaster, you won't regret it. I don't, and I've bought Bushmaster 3x now. What could you gain from going elsewhere for your AR, with the possible exception of Colt and maybe Armalite? Juggernaut
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:28:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By styles: I thought FN was supplying the military contracts?
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It is my understanding that Bushmaster was awarded a contract for some M4 Carbines a while back, but current M4's are produced by Colt and not FN.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:57:37 PM EDT
Get an ArmaLite. Or a Bushmaster. Or a Colt. Or any other complete rifle. Or build your own. Just do it now before your state outlaws them. Don't think. Act, dammit! [50]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:58:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 6:11:22 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
For those interested in Rock River ARs, there is a 5 rifle group purchase in the General Discussion section at [url]http://pub49.ezboard.com/ffloridashootersnetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=640.topic[/url] Standard A2 or NM DCM rifles being sold in groups of 5 or more.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:03:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: RRA has NO chromed chamber or bore, a military specification. Juggernaut
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Checking their catalog even the standard rifles have a moly chrome barrel. Not sure about the chamber area, can anyone confirm?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:07:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: RRA has NO chromed chamber or bore, a military specification. Juggernaut
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Checking their catalog even the standard rifles have a moly chrome barrel. Not sure about the chamber area, can anyone confirm?
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Not the same thing as actual lining of the barrel surface with chrome. Chrome-moly means that chrome is amalgamated into the barrel steel, but it doesn't mean that there is an actual Mil-Spec chrome lining, like Bushy and Colt. Big difference. C'mon, Steyr, you know this stuff...[;)] Juggernaut
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:10:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 5:05:55 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: Not the same thing as actual lining of the barrel surface with chrome. Chrome-moly means that chrome is amalgamated into the barrel steel, but it doesn't mean that there is an actual Mil-Spec chrome lining, like Bushy and Colt. Big difference. C'mon, Steyr, you know this stuff...[;)] Juggernaut
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So does it "do" the same thing as a chrome lined? Do you have one? Is the barrel just grey inside? I've got a chrome moly UZI barrel that is definitely chrome lined but sold as chrome moly.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:46:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:56:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: Not the same thing as actual lining of the barrel surface with chrome. Chrome-moly means that chrome is amalgamated into the barrel steel, but it doesn't mean that there is an actual Mil-Spec chrome lining, like Bushy and Colt. Big difference. C'mon, Steyr, you know this stuff...[;)] Juggernaut
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So does it "do" the same thing as a chrome lined? Do you have one? Is the barrel just grey inside? I've got a chrome moly UZI barrel that is definitely chrome lined but sold as chrome moly.
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Chrome moly steel doesn't do the same thing as chrome lining. Chrome lining prevents rust and wear far better than the bare steel, that's why it's mil-spec, even on the Beretta M9. It also gives increased lubricity of the chamer, aiding extraction. I owned one barrel in Chrome Moly, and yes, the bore was grey, a little less reflective than the chome lining in the chamber and bore of my ushy and Colt uppers. I just decided I wouldn't trust my life to it. The AK, AR, IMI UZI, and even the new Bolt action FN police rifle have a chrome lined bore. It's standard on most modern combat weapons, and for good reason. Chrome-moly steel a cost cutting measure, not a feature, plain and simple. Juggernaut
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