Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/25/2001 4:57:39 AM EDT
Iam sure this has been debated over and over. It is a source of constant disagreement anongst my fellow shooters. I use the 1911 whenever possible and is my hands down choice for a pistol. I always carry it hammer down on live round and 6 in magazine. when it sits in my dresser its the same way. Why the big deal ?
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:11:10 AM EDT
Who knows??? I have ALWAYS had my M1911A1s checked by a competent gunsmith, as I carry cocked and unlocked (as John Browning designed). In the last 15 years, no problems (knock on wood)and I leave my M1A loaded, safety off (guns get put up when children are about). No kids yet. Don out
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:11:52 AM EDT
It could slip when lowering it.Of course I do the same thing with my 97.I dont like the 1911 cocked and locked when NOT on my person.When keeping it as you describe it would be just as fast hammer down on a empty chamber.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:12:22 AM EDT
I prefer "cocked and locked". It's faster and if I remember correctly it's the way the pistol was designed. A series 80 has an extra internal safety that should prevent it from discharging when dropped. You might want to load up some snap caps and spend more time with it untill you build up your trust in the pistol. PS I don't keep a loaded weopon in my house.I trust my kids, but not their associates.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:27:42 AM EDT
The Series 70 slides shouldn't be carried hammer-down on a loaded chamber... drop it, or jar the hammer real hard and you get ka-boom. They have nothing blocking the hammer from the firing pin, and nothing blocking the firing pin from the primer. The Series 80 slides should be safe to carry hammer down, but personally I'm just fine with cocked and locked... But then again, my 1911A1's met my gunsafe when I got that HKP7M13 as my defensive sidearm.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:35:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mechandy: I prefer "cocked and locked". It's faster and if I remember correctly it's the way the pistol was designed. A series 80 has an extra internal safety that should prevent it from discharging when dropped. You might want to load up some snap caps and spend more time with it untill you build up your trust in the pistol. PS I don't keep a loaded weopon in my house.I trust my kids, but not their associates.
View Quote
IIRC, the thumb safety was a Gov't contract requirement... Have to check resources. When I first started to carry, I was worried about a "rough handling" discharge. I loaded a case w/primer only (no bullet or powder), and dropped it on the cocked hammer- broke the hammer, never even dented the primer... (I don't use series '70, '80, etc..., just the plain ole' issue pre- '70 A1)
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 10:18:40 AM EDT
It was the grip safety that was the g'ovt add on. Dropping a 1911 on the muzzle is the problem that the series 80 parts are supposed to guard against, not dropping on the hammer. the halfcock notch would take care of the latter. Drop the gun on a hard surface muzzle down, the pistol stops & the firing pin keeps going (inertia). Or, at least, so the stories go. I rather doubt it's ever happened in real life, just some safety weenie's overactive imagination. Hammer down on a live round & only 6 in the mag? Why? Norm
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 10:53:46 AM EDT
when I was 17, my grandfathers girlfriend doug up her late husbands WW2 duffelbag. Inside was a oringinal colt 1911 manufactured in 1917. The gun was and is beautiful. the blue was amazingand the stocks were sharply checkered. The gun was loaded with 1 in the chamber in 6 in the original two-tone mag. The gun was then fired and the dam thing fed and functioned perfect. The sights were slim and overall the gun was a little thinner than any 1911 i have ever seen. So after 41 years of being left that way. I figured it was good enough for me also. The ammo was 42' steel cased. After shooting it several hundred times. I was advised from several veterans . to load the mag with standard 7 , let slide go forward. lower hammer and forget it. They claimed this is what they were taught. that along with , I just plain perfer it . Iam was taught to shoot by dad using exposed hammer guns with half cock safeties and it just felt natural......I now have it tucked away for my son.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 10:56:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: It was the grip safety that was the g'ovt add on. Dropping a 1911 on the muzzle is the problem that the series 80 parts are supposed to guard against, not dropping on the hammer. the halfcock notch would take care of the latter. Drop the gun on a hard surface muzzle down, the pistol stops & the firing pin keeps going (inertia). Or, at least, so the stories go. I rather doubt it's ever happened in real life, just some safety weenie's overactive imagination. Hammer down on a live round & only 6 in the mag? Why? Norm
View Quote
Thanks for the correction-stuff is still in boxes here after 2 yrs- LOL
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 12:03:40 PM EDT
Norm is correct, The danger with carrying a 1911 hammer down is because if it is dropped on the muzzle it might discharge. The first round fired like that is not the main problem unless you are on the second floor, but there is a chance that the pistol will go full auto and fire two or more rounds, it has happened with pistols that have had bad trigger jobs without being dropped. The pistol was designed to be carried cocked and locked and that is how I carried mine a series 70. When I was done carrying it for the day I usually would lower the hammer on the live round, which is one of the most dangerous things you can do with a 1911. This is how I lower the hammer and how everyone who carries one should lower the hammer it is the safest way. First make sure it is pointed in a safe direction and then place your thumb of your shooting hand on the hammer, holding the hammer in position, next use your other thumb to disengage the thumb safety, next being very careful not to place any part of your body, like your arm, in front of the muzzle, use the thumb that you just used to disengage the thumb safety, in front of the hammer, next pull back the hammer until it touches and pushes back the tang of the grip safety and disengages the grip safety, next continuing to hole back the hammer with your shooting thumb and keeping your other thumb in front of the hammer squeeze the trigger, the next and final step is to slowly and carefully lower the hammer keeping your other thumb in front of and even touching the hammer. This way just in case you thumb slips off the hammer while you are lowering it the hammer will fall and hit your other thumb instead of discharging your pistol. I also keep my thumb on the hammer when I drop the slide to chamber the first round when I am at home just in case. In short just use your right thumb to lower the hammer while keeping you left thumb in front of the hammer, if you are right handed of course. Sorry for the overly long instructions but I just wanted to give my fingers a little exercise. Oh I always replaced the round in the mag I just chambered so I would have 7 in the mag and 1 up the tube.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 12:06:06 PM EDT
Cocked, locked and ready ro rock.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 12:20:17 PM EDT
Would you trust the loaded gun by pulling back the hammer [i]just enough[/i] to not catch the sear AND LETTING GO? Would you try the same experiment with confidence while [i]allowing[/i] it to snag on clothing? Not me. All of the designed safeties are bypassed in this condition. Col. Jeff Cooper(Gunsite Guru) says, This(hammer down on a chambered round) is a VERY DEFINITE NO NO. This probably seems counterintuitive, but a 1911 with a weak firing pin spring and no firing pin block safety can AD if dropped muzzle-first or if the hammer is struck fairly hard. The pistol wasn't designed to be carried this way, and shouldn't be. He first adopted the "conditions for carry" for the 1911, and the one you describe IS NOT one of them. Please be careful!
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 1:10:56 PM EDT
Cocked and locked. If someone sees with the safety on and does not agree, it is because he doesn't know about guns, so he/she/it has not the right to speak before getting informed well. If someone sees it without the safety on, it could be a paper target or a crook. Hehe look man a 230 fmj ball just for you.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 3:02:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2001 3:03:03 PM EDT by Derek45]
[b]Just carry it cocked & locked, John Browning designed it that way. Hammer down, live chamber is too slow to fire. Plus if your finger slips while lowering the hammer [size=3]BANG ! [/size=3] The thumb saftey puts a big chunk of steel in the way of the hammer, and the grip saftey prevents the trigger from going back. [/b] If you're not comfortable with cocked & locked, you should get a DA revolver.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 3:09:29 PM EDT
I would keep it either round in chamber, cocked, with thumb safety on. or Chamber empty, full mag, hammer down. In this condition your simply pull the slide back and you are ready for action.
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 3:30:35 PM EDT
Would it be wrong at the end of the day to drop the mag and cycle the slide to clear the gun? Scott
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:46:30 PM EDT
When I carry my Kimber, I carry cocked and locked. My primary reason for that is that you lower your civil liability, however little it may be. My concern in a CCW situation is not my ability to handle the situation. Much more the civil lawsuit that will surely follow by the family of the recently deceased. I know a lot of you 1911 guys hate glocks, but a Glock is what I usually carry because it is very safe and light. I am a smaller guy and also find it easier to conceal a Glock vs. a 1911. My opinion. Carry cocked and locked or get another gun you feel safer carrying "Live". That's why you are carrying in the first place, right?
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 5:53:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tloc45: Iam sure this has been debated over and over. It is a source of constant disagreement anongst my fellow shooters. I use the 1911 whenever possible and is my hands down choice for a pistol. I always carry it hammer down on live round and 6 in magazine. when it sits in my dresser its the same way. Why the big deal ?
View Quote
Its fine the way you carry it, the reason there is a big deal is that everyone wants to be correct, The way you want to carry it is your option. I carry a high power the same way but I have 12 in the mag. GG
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 7:27:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By schapman43: Would it be wrong at the end of the day to drop the mag and cycle the slide to clear the gun? Scott
View Quote
If you want the gun completly "safe", that is teh best way. No chance of letting another round go up the pipe. As far as how to carry, It's cocked and locked. If yo uever need to use the gun in a defensive situation, it easier to disengage the safety that to have to cock the hammer. Not to mention the "explaination" of a negligent discharge if you inadvertently drop the hammer and it strikes the firing pin. [smoke]
Link Posted: 9/25/2001 10:48:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 6:54:34 AM EDT
Thanks for all your input . Very helpfull !!! The only thing i disagree with is that J.Browning designed it to be carried cocked and locked. I have a copy of the U.S.N. bluejackets manual stating to only use the cocked and locked methed when you about to fire the weapon. Such as walking in a combat situation or when you feel the gun will be used in the very near future . And while doing this carry it in your hand ! Iam paraphrasing but i could write a verbatum or scan it for you guys ... Not that iam saying there is anything wrong with what your saying. I just feel safer and very confident with hammer down , live round. I carry a colt govt.380 and my High power the same way. I am just used to revolvers and exposed hammer winchesters ....I only have the " modern" high power becuase of the last panic buy, due to pending bans...... thanks to all
Link Posted: 9/26/2001 7:38:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2001 7:39:20 AM EDT by styles]
Originally Posted By schapman43: Would it be wrong at the end of the day to drop the mag and cycle the slide to clear the gun? Scott
View Quote
Nope. IMHO that's the only proper way. Leave it cocked-n-locked or unload it by cycling the slide with no mag in the well. OR you could do what the Police Officer did that responded to our house one day, he just used the 'De-Cocking Lever' [rolleyes]
Top Top