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Posted: 9/23/2001 4:49:19 PM EDT
I know this isn't about AR-15's, but the P228 is a US military pistol, so I thought it sorta fits... I'm confused about the following statement on SIG's web site (http://www.sigarms.com/customer/index.shtml): "Any factory ammunition that is SAAMI approved is suitable for use (P and +P). +P+, hand reloads and military surplus ammunition are not recommended." I've heard good reviews about Winchester 9mm NATO 124gr at 1235 fps (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/omb- ps/q4nat9mmam.html) and Winchester Ranger RA9SXTP 9mm 124gr +P+ at 1250 fps (http://www.botachtactical.com/winranra9.html). Both of these high-quality factory brands of ammo are apparently "+P+" Why is the use of +P+ ammo "not recommended" in the SIG P228? The 228 is in use by the US Military, so presumably it sees a lot of use with +P+ loads. What specific problems could happen if one uses quality +P+ factory ammunition in a 228? Will the gun explode? Will it wear out after 5000 rounds? ...or is it simply a matter of changing the recoil spring more frequently? Thanks in advance for the advice.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 4:59:36 PM EDT
Sigs are not known for their long term durability. Even on www.sigtalk.com you'll find devout Sig owners showing concern over Sig's rather short service life. They are very well made guns and are extremely reliable, but it's pretty much common knowledge that they don't handle thousands of rounds very well. Pin hole begin to elongate and alloy frames begin to wear and crack. A poster over on sigtalk posted an image of his P220's broken taken down lever which seared right in half. He used the pistol in IDPA events and put serious rounds down range through it. It puked. They are great carry guns but don't expect them to be daily blasters. Some folks are claiming the polymer framed guns have a more acceptable service life. I can't confirm this as it appears to be mostly speculation.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 7:15:24 PM EDT
I have fired oodles of Winchester and Federal NATO ball out of my SIG P225 and P226 for years, and at every IDPA match I have ever shot. The stuff is VERY accurate and very powerful. I did own a Taurus PT-92 that did puke after 3500 NATO spec rounds, I have atleast 3 times that through both my SIGS. Both are just as tight as the day I got them, and I do not foresee any problems in the near or distant future. I don't know what it is worth to ya, but that is my experience.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:03:03 PM EDT
+p and +p+ generally do not have the chamber pressure of NATO spec 9mm. We in the US have generally wimpy 9mm due to an Italian pistol brought back after WWI. It was 9x19mm, but designed for a down loaded round. The German 9mm for the PO8 rapidly tore it up. So, our ammo has been somewhat downloaded compared to European ammo for many years. The Sig can handle +p+, but a steady diet will accelerate wear and tear on it, cutting it's useful life. Folks talk shit about Glocks, but they will handle a steady diet of 9mm carbine ammo. The first time I went to Smyrna to Glock armorer and transition school, we fired the G18 with IMI 9mm blacktip carbine ammo. I got to take 4 boxes home because I had a G19. No other 9mm pisttol was capable of safely handling the chamber pressure. Glocks are ugly, but they are tough as hell. And as long as you don't use reload's, or lead ammo, you should have no problem.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:12:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2001 8:11:44 PM EDT by zazou]
My 228 has probably 2500 plus through it. Can't remember there ever being a stoppage. Durability, other than the finish, is not a issue as I can tell. It will handle the +p+ load. No pistol will take that kind of abuse and not show wear. Anyone who tells you otherwise is talking p their choice of brand. The manufacturers disclaimer is to cover civil liability, which they do not have to worry about in the military contracts. Go a head and carry +p+, just test shoot 50 or so to verify feed ability etc. Who wants to shoot +p+ at the range. Too much effort ot enjoy. 2 bits. Zaz
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:31:28 PM EDT
Thanks for the feedback, guys. So do you think a stronger recoil spring would help with the 9mm NATO +P+ ammo? I know the SIG 229 spring has to be stronger because the slide is harder to pull back than the 228. Then again, it's made for the .40S&W/.357SIG round, so perhaps the heavier spring would affect reliability with 9mm... Greg
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:32:56 PM EDT
No, I'm not talking P, whatever that is about Glocks. In fact, I personally prefer the Sig. I carried a P226 and P228 for years on duty. They are just not as durable as a Glock. There are Glocks with over a million rounds through them that still shoot to factory specs. I have shot one with over 750,000 rounds through it. The G18 was fired till it was red hot, the slide locked forward, and stuck in an ammo can of water to cool off. I don't belive any other pistol around could handle that kind of abuse and still chatter along.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 3:59:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By orGreg: Thanks for the feedback, guys. So do you think a stronger recoil spring would help with the 9mm NATO +P+ ammo? I know the SIG 229 spring has to be stronger because the slide is harder to pull back than the 228. Then again, it's made for the .40S&W/.357SIG round, so perhaps the heavier spring would affect reliability with 9mm... Greg
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The .228 does not need any help. My carry load in my .228 is Federal Hydra-Shok 124 grain +P+. Chronos at 1250-1275fps. Shoots them POA/POI at 10 yards. Accelerated wear? Certainly. So, just shoot enough +P+ to confirm reliability and to rotate your ammo stock.
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