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Posted: 9/21/2001 4:15:33 AM EDT
. . . will "we" (special forces, "the authorities", "the govt", etc.) use the same tactics/techniques/force that we would in another country? In other words, within our own borders, would we: * assassinate terrorists? * use a "smart bomb" on terrorists? * use a "dumb bomb" on terrorists? * use terrorism on terrorists? etc. If you think we would. What do you think we would do? If you think we wouldn't. Why not(what makes the rules different)? And what to you think we ARE willing to do?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:20:47 AM EDT
If the media found a terrorist cell here in the states, it is safe to say that the public itself would be willing to correct the problem itself. But in our current situation, it would probably be the National Guard taking them out. [beer]
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:22:07 AM EDT
I think that the farthest that we would go is to give the accused a military tribunal and not a civilian trial. A tribunal is MUCH easier for the prosecution. However you get them does not matter. It is how you try them and punish them that matters.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:27:42 AM EDT
Once found, a terrorist cell within the United States could be easily overwhelmed by conventional law enforcement agencies. The goal would be to capture the terrorists alive for intelligence purposes.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:27:43 AM EDT
Due to some of the topics posted on this sight in the past few years, there could be a case made for calling some of us'terrorist'. Be careful how you label peoples beliefs. Remember how us gunnuts are thought of to a lot of antis in this country. One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:34:09 AM EDT
Take the terrorists into custody and torture the crap out of them. GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:43:10 AM EDT
Terrorist cells have been with us for years. They are known as the "Crips" and the "Bloods". The cells made up of Arabs won't be treated any differently. They'll go to court, get a bleeding-heart liberal attorney, make bail, and be back out on the street. Why do you think the terrorists make their homes here? They know they won't have their throats slit in some police interrogation room if they are arrested.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:45:48 AM EDT
What should we do? I think it's obvious. We should send-in the BATF. The have proven themselves capable of killing domestic targets better than any other agency. They're even able to do it without media criticism.z
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:47:57 AM EDT
Damn zoom! You beat me to it! Let BATF burn them out and shoot them upon their egress.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 6:08:20 PM EDT
Why the difference inside our borders versus outside our borders?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 6:42:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighlandMac: If the media found a terrorist cell here in the states, it is safe to say that the public itself would be willing to correct the problem itself. But in our current situation, it would probably be the National Guard taking them out. [beer]
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As a matter of fact the Police should stand-by and detain the terrorist cell until there is a large crowd outside wielding Box cutters and 3" knives. Eye for an eye MO... FO's!!!
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 12:09:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: What should we do? I think it's obvious. We should send-in the BATF. The have proven themselves capable of killing domestic targets better than any other agency. They're even able to do it without media criticism.z
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Alas, the answer I was looking for. Janet Reno could be the temporary chief of BATF special anti-terrorist death squad. Burn baby burn!
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 5:27:18 AM EDT
The mere suggestion that there might be more Arab terrorist in this country is racist and divisive. It matters not if they have only been in this country for less than six months. They are Arab-[i]Americans[/i] and our brothers. We should reach out a hand of understanding so as not to offend them in any manner or harm their delicate sensibilities. It is the politically correct American way and the only way we can not appear to be evil racist.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:25:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2001 8:35:20 PM EDT by vent]
Originally Posted By Gunslinger: The mere suggestion that there might be more Arab terrorist in this country is racist and divisive. It matters not if they have only been in this country for less than six months. They are Arab-[i]Americans[/i] and our brothers. We should reach out a hand of understanding so as not to offend them in any manner or harm their delicate sensibilities. It is the politically correct American way and the only way we can not appear to be evil racist.[rolleyes]
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Thank you ever so much for polluting this thread with kum-bi-ya! [;)] [moon] Oh well. Guess we're not going to get straight, thoughtful answers in this thread. This [thread] too shall end.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2001 8:31:38 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Just tell me where they are hiding and America will never hear from them again. [kill] Remember, if a person's escape poses a substantial risk to the lives of the public then it is Justifiable Use of Deadly Force.
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:46:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Remember, if a person's escape poses a substantial risk to the lives of the public then it is Justifiable Use of Deadly Force.
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heh heh
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 9:03:48 PM EDT
I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. I can't really remember where I read something to that affect, however, it certainly does not sound like much of what I have been reading on this BB lately. Hmm.. maybe it was just some fiction or poetry. Any guess on where that may have been written? -JmE-
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 1:25:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JmE: I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
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Yes, that includes the inalienable right to take protective action against a threat such as terrorists. For the most part, we leave it up to the intelligence, military and law enforcement units. However, the citizens are the last line of defense. Now, tell me, if you had a chance to shoot the terrorists when they took over the airplanes, would you do it? What about when they were headed for the airport and you knew what was up? Would you call the cops or would you think it would somehow make the perps "unequal"?
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 1:26:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JmE: I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. I can't really remember where I read something to that affect, however, it certainly does not sound like much of what I have been reading on this BB lately. Hmm.. maybe it was just some fiction or poetry. Any guess on where that may have been written? -JmE-
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It wasn't here pal.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 1:33:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prk:
Originally Posted By JmE: I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
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Yes, that includes the inalienable right to take protective action against a threat such as terrorists. For the most part, we leave it up to the intelligence, military and law enforcement units. However, the citizens are the last line of defense. Now, tell me, if you had a chance to shoot the terrorists when they took over the airplanes, would you do it? What about when they were headed for the airport and you knew what was up? Would you call the cops or would you think it would somehow make the perps "unequal"?
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Still waiting for a reply from JmE..... bold words from a troll, with little back-up it seems.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:04:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vent: . . . will "we" (special forces, "the authorities", "the govt", etc.) use the same tactics/techniques/force that we would in another country? In other words, within our own borders, would we: * assassinate terrorists? * use a "smart bomb" on terrorists? * use a "dumb bomb" on terrorists? * use terrorism on terrorists? etc. If you think we would. What do you think we would do? If you think we wouldn't. Why not(what makes the rules different)? And what to you think we ARE willing to do?
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In what sort of scenario would the US use bombs [i]on American soil[/i]?!? The terrorists aren't going to be hiding in a bunker out in the boonies; they're going to be in the suburbs, or somewhere else with other people around. Terrorist cells aren't like infantry platoons. There would be a dozen suspects, max, and the US would want to capture them alive if possible.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:21:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2001 5:22:01 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
[size=6]If???[/size=6] What planet are you on?
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2001 5:43:36 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Originally Posted By cc48510: Remember, if a person's escape poses a substantial risk to the lives of the public then it is Justifiable Use of Deadly Force.
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Sounds like a justifiable use of [b]Delta Force[/b] to me...if the President gets a pass on Posse Comitatus from Congress first. Seriously though, with all of the SRTs that our domestic law enforcement groups have, this scenario should be a no brainer. Send in an FBI SWAT team, and if the dirtbags want to fight it out, then "Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!" [b]Freedom isn't free[/b] Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. [img]http://www.inetnow.net/~kudzukid/enlemblem.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:48:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: What should we do? I think it's obvious. We should send-in the BATF. The have proven themselves capable of killing domestic targets better than any other agency. They're even able to do it without media criticism.z
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SIC Janet Reno on them.....they won't live to see another dawn.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 6:17:28 AM EDT
Right's, They have the right to die!!!!!!! What did they do at Waco to deserve their fate? What about Ruby Ridge? I say find them and fire CS gas into where they are hiding. Just ask the FBI and ATF how that works.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 6:26:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prk:
Originally Posted By JmE: I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
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Yes, that includes the inalienable right to take protective action against a threat such as terrorists. For the most part, we leave it up to the intelligence, military and law enforcement units. However, the citizens are the last line of defense. Now, tell me, if you had a chance to shoot the terrorists when they took over the airplanes, would you do it? What about when they were headed for the airport and you knew what was up? Would you call the cops or would you think it would somehow make the perps "unequal"?
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I would definately defend myself.I would definately call the police. My biggest worry lately is all the talk (not just here on this BB, but elsewhere also) about throwing rights and common decency out the window. -JmE-
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 6:29:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vent: . . . will "we" (special forces, "the authorities", "the govt", etc.) use the same tactics/techniques/force that we would in another country? In other words, within our own borders, would we: * assassinate terrorists? * use a "smart bomb" on terrorists? * use a "dumb bomb" on terrorists? * use terrorism on terrorists? etc. If you think we would. What do you think we would do? If you think we wouldn't. Why not(what makes the rules different)? And what to you think we ARE willing to do?
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We wouldn't and we shouldn't. For starters, there is a law against it but ultimately it would be a waste. Known terrorist cells should be put under surveilance so that ties to the larger organization or other cells can be discovered. When sufficient evidence is gathered, they should be apprehended and interrogated. If they are foreign nationals, they should be tried as spies and executed. If they, god forbid, are citizens then they should be tried as traitors. Or maybe something trickier. Intelligence is a key element of a successful war. It's role is often overlooked because it's power lies in secrecy and deception. Even in WWII intelligence breakthroughs were critical elements of Allied success. In the war on terrorism it will be even more important. For example, you find some terrorist are going to bomb a building. Is it better to storm their hide out and shoot them all dead? Arrest them and try them?, or tail them to where they are making the bomb, capture them, interrogate them, and then pile them up ontop of the bomb and set it off? In the first two cases, the rest of the organization knows that the cell was under observation and they go deeper underground. In the last case, you get your intel, and then you can go to the media and say that you suspect that terroists were trying to construct a bomb but the evidence was mostly vaporized so you don't know who they were or where they came from. The rest of the organization would be less inclined to disappear if they think the cell accidentally vaporized itself. I don't think that us having more bombs and more bullets is going to be the deciding advantage. Being smarter is the key. I may not be able to outsmart Bin Laden, but the US is a big country with lots of smart people, we should be able to field a smarter team than Al Keda can.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 6:34:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth:
Originally Posted By prk:
Originally Posted By JmE: I seem to recall reading somewhere that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
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Yes, that includes the inalienable right to take protective action against a threat such as terrorists. For the most part, we leave it up to the intelligence, military and law enforcement units. However, the citizens are the last line of defense. Now, tell me, if you had a chance to shoot the terrorists when they took over the airplanes, would you do it? What about when they were headed for the airport and you knew what was up? Would you call the cops or would you think it would somehow make the perps "unequal"?
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Still waiting for a reply from JmE..... bold words from a troll, with little back-up it seems.
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Some of us have to sleep and work. I just arrrived back here at AR15.com. What exactly is a troll? I have been on ar15 for a while, the major upgrades just caused my username to get dumped. I haven't been able to login for a loooong time and my # of posts got reset to zero. (If you don't belive me, ask GoatBoy) I am really surprised at the boldness of the statement "with little back up". That is a statement you would not be inclined to make face to face so I would really suggest you cool your jets in regards to those comments to me. -JmE-
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 7:15:29 AM EDT
I was reading an article in the Washington Post last week that said that there are 4-5 al Queda cells operating in the US right now. The FBI and CIA know abou them. [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10846-2001Sep22.html[/url] Anyone else think that maybe we ought to deport these people?
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 7:44:34 AM EDT
It's a Law Enforcement problem if it happens in CONUS. FBI will be the lead agency. Contrary to popular belief, HRT is very good at this sort of thing. The Jedi's have other things to do right now. It takes Persidential Order for military operators to work on the home soil. I don't look for that to happen so I doubt I'll be working CSAR stateside. -SARguy
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 8:55:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 10:04:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kpel308: And what happens if the definition of "terrorist cell" changes? How about a bunch of guys armed with AR15s, who communicate with each other via a computer bulletin board? Some of them even espouse disagreeing with some details of the government's new anti-terrorism campaign that may conflict with the Constitution... Semper Fi! Ken Little
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Well said. I have been thinking the same thing... In fact, I think by the last anti-terrorism bill (a year or so ago) I fit the description, at least on paper. -JmE-
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 11:09:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:09:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Weiseguy: We wouldn't and we shouldn't. For starters, . . .
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Weiseguy: I'm not disagreeing with your point, but if intel is important and pursuing the bigger fish" is more important, why wouldn't we do the same thing outside of our borders? Why do the rules appear to be different?
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 5:56:06 PM EDT
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