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Posted: 9/21/2001 3:27:35 AM EDT
Did anybody else get a little nervous at the creation of this office?? I know it's necessary it response to the terrorist attacks, but what's to keep a liberal government in the future from using the pretext of "domestic terrorism" to encroach on the second amendment. If anybody thinks I'm a little paranoid (and I must admit, I probably am), just look at what Rep. Gephardt has been saying about a "safer America" Anybody also notice that he's been getting a lot of "face" time on the national news lately? Anybody think he's not already running for president? Could this office be used in the future to repress us?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 3:45:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 3:44:59 AM EDT by Grundsau]
Yes. Preparedness is different than paranoia and you're preparing. Gephardt doesn't seem to have presidential appeal or that "arousal" factor. IMO. It's great to wave the flag but you are correct in being vigilant concerning our future Liberties. I support our President in delivering justice to those involved. But not when it means trading Liberties for safety. This quote from [url]http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2001/9/20/204927[/url] [b]"Today dozens of federal departments and agencies, as well as state and local governments, have responsibilites affecting homeland security. These efforts must be coordinated at the highest level.[/b] Hope they focus on the real enemy and not on citizens.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:05:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:24:29 AM EDT
Did anybody else get a little nervous at the creation of this office??
View Quote
Yes. The name alone is disturbing; it sounds like something from the Soviet Union. (As a matter of fact, the Soviets did have a "Committee for State Security" - the KGB).
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:29:12 AM EDT
Yes, this Cabinet position sounds like something from that late unpleasantness commonly referred to as the Third Reich! I think the position was [b][i]Heimatland Sicherheitsministerer[/i][/b]. Eric The(SoundsBetterInTheOriginalGerman!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:44:29 AM EDT
Funny you should mention the KGB, the initial terrorist attack smelled vaguely of KGB to me... This new position does not bode well, sounds like the creation of yet another agency that can make up 'regulations' on the fly.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:48:11 AM EDT
The first thing I said was fu*k me. My wife had to cover the boys ears. My son is seven and he is taking an NRA pistol course, am I training a futute terrorist? The Department of Homeland Security may think so. So will the Fu*king soccer moms in my neighborhood.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 4:48:31 AM EDT
Maybe this thread should be thumbtacked?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 5:25:10 AM EDT
God, I shudder to think of what sweeping "reforms" this office would have in the hands of a liberal government. What would constitute a "domestic terrorist?" Who defines it? What if your neighbor didn't like your 2nd amendment stance? Could he 'report' you? If you are considered a "domestic terrorist" by some bureaucrat, what extraordinary powers would the federal government have in arresting you? I'm certainly not the "tinfoil hat" type, but this really creeps me out.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 5:34:25 AM EDT
No, I'm not nervous at all, and I'm a C&R, so I'm already on a "list". My feeling is that this office's agenda will be to coordiante all the free-lance public safety departments already in existence from redundant work. We all know that the FBI and the CIA spend more time hiding info from each other than working on it. State police and local police hate each other. Here in MA, the State Police patrol the airport, but have no interaction with the FAA (and we see where that got us at Logan). Stop worrying about the little guy, we aren't even on the radar screen.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 5:51:13 AM EDT
I got nervous, and sure they are busy right now dealing with "terrorists", but when they are done, what's going to stop them from looking? They got to show they doing something, cause if they dont they will lose their jobs. God help us, cause this could start a civil war. c-rock
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 6:22:41 AM EDT
When I heard "Homeland Security", my first thought was "Soviet Union". "Domestic Security" would have been a better name, but the result will be the same. Jay Arizona "Life is hard: It's harder if you're stupid"
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 6:46:07 AM EDT
I'm curious what the purpose of this new position is. Doesn't any type of terrorist activity already fall under the domain of the CIA, NSA, FBI or Secret Service already?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 6:48:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo: I'm curious what the purpose of this new position is. Doesn't any type of terrorist activity already fall under the domain of the CIA, NSA, FBI or Secret Service already?
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The is no coordination/cooperation among these departments. That's the purpose of this department.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:31:04 AM EDT
I'm surprised that relatively few on this board seem to be concerned with this. Michigander in Maryland
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:39:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: I'm surprised that relatively few on this board seem to be concerned with this. Michigander in Maryland
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Doesn't surprise me one bit. Most people on here don't give a crap about anything beyond preserving THEIR GUN HOBBY.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:42:25 AM EDT
Pessimism: Orwell. 1984. Optimism: The only saving grace on this one, at least for the first few years, is that I really believe GW has no intention of binding American Citizens or taking their rights. Mind you this is initially a Cabinet position, not an agency. When it becomes one, then were screwed. And if it in any way involves the ATF we are REALLY screwed. Zaz "Libertarian. Proud American."
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:43:10 AM EDT
I will be afraid of this position/organization. If they are allowed to run as the ATF is, we could all be pretty well screwed. If there is enough oversight by congressmen and women with common sense, we'll be all right. So, basically we're probably gonna be f*cked hard by this eventually. BTW, as a Texas CHL holder, I'm already on a list. Photo ID and fingerprints on record with the DPS and FBI. ML
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:43:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 7:42:32 AM EDT by Golgo-13]
Just so all the uniformed Homeland Protection Officers (tm) get home safely to their families each night...
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:45:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 7:49:22 AM EDT by medicjim]
"what's to keep a liberal government in the future from using the pretext of "domestic terrorism" to encroach on the second amendment." Must I always point out the obvious.... WE, THE PEOPLE! I'm a whole lot less nervous today than two weeks ago... We have been and always shall be, responsible for the actions of our representatives... Why is this so often forgotten? It is in writing... been that way for 200+ years...maybe you need to re-read your instruction manual on US government? Look under "US Constitution" sheesh...we can all fly a flag, but when it comes to doing something real, like running a government.....
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:49:18 AM EDT
Da gut citizens haf no-ting to vear from da Field Marshal of Moter Land Defense! Ignorance is Strength.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:53:08 AM EDT
Are you surprised? Our Government is and has been slowly implementing little laws here and there to take away our freedoms. There will be a point when anyone with a gun will be considered a threat to the U.S. freedom....... [b][red]If we are not with the Government we are with the Terrorists!!!![/b][/red]
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:58:38 AM EDT
I'm somewhat concerned. It is okay at moment under Geo. W. but what happens if a Chuck Schumer or Diane Fienstein-type gets to be prez? Amoung these people banning guns is probably right near or at the top of the priority list. Witness the liberals here in Calif, the utility companies are go down the tubes, there was a truck crashing into the Capitol building itself, the WTC disaster; they still passed a bill licensing gun owners and its on Davis' desk, so what does this tell you? It doesn't take too much to redefined guns as a terrorist threat; a few changes here and there, a few well placed words, and voila! I hope I'm wrong, but as gunner, I have been screwed over by too many politico-types, I always cast a jaundiced-eye toward everything, espcially $hit like this. Sorry for being such a pessimist. My feeling is that we should rename this position "ministry of internal security"
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 8:37:44 AM EDT
Yes, this scares the bejeezes out of me. Remember, McVeigh was a terrorist, and they tried to link him to gun owners, militiamen, and any right wing person. Plus, Ridge is NOT pro-gun: he wrote teh 94 crime bill. Beware.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 8:46:03 AM EDT
I thought that we who are armed would make good candidates for homeland security. When I hear Homeland security, I think of myself and other armed good citizens running around the perimeter of the village/town/city whatever with our 4x4's and roving patrol, just like RAT PATROL... Why am I not worried they will come and take my guns?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 8:54:13 AM EDT
Nien!!
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:05:25 AM EDT
I was wondering about the use of the term of "Terrorist" in the speach and the Homeland Defense thing too, since we have plenty of homegrown terrorism. However, the President did make it clear that this was a war on "Terrorist groups that have a Global reach." Key word being "global". It's a way to get around groups like the skinheads, Klan, American Nazi Party, etc. I could see outside nations pointing a finger back at the US saying we are also harboring terrorist organizations based on those groups,thus hipocritical in our war on terrorism itself.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:10:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: I thought that we who are armed would make good candidates for homeland security. When I hear Homeland security, I think of myself and other armed good citizens running around the perimeter of the village/town/city whatever with our 4x4's and roving patrol, just like RAT PATROL... Why am I not worried they will come and take my guns?
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This where we get them to pump money back into the CMP. I cannot think of a better way to support home defense.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:30:44 AM EDT
I think it's a good time for gun organizations like the CMP and the NRA to step up and volunteer to help provide firearms training to all the new airport security and air marshals that are going to get hired in the future. This will put gun owners in a positive light and make it harder for the government to use these same forces against us. I also had this idea about having the BATF reorganized into an airport security force. I actually wrote a letter to my REP in the House explaining that the BATF's work was redundant since other lawenforcement organizations do what they do and more. I also explained that converting them to an airport security force would be cheaper and faster than creating a new force. Now I didn't mention my reason for having them reorganized was to get them out of the gun grabbing business. Just my $0.02 Larry
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:43:34 AM EDT
Yes, I definitely got that cold chill up my spine when I heard him say it. "Homeland security"...brrrrrrrrrrrr there it is again. This will be abused to take away the rights of citizens... and when it is no longer needed, it will persist and grow. Seems to me, no matter what we do to the terrorists, they've already won in changing our way of life into something with less "freedom", and more "security". Since the group will be in charge of "Homeland security", where do you think they will stand on citizens owning firearms? "Citizens don't need them, we will protect you".
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:52:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 9:52:50 AM EDT by warlord]
I don't remember, but at sometime Calif. Sen. Diane Fienstein, tried to define an arsenal as 20(?) guns and 1000 rounds of ammo. If you have an arsenal you could be a terrorist. Why do you need an arsenal? Remember the antis are going to take away your rights incrementally, ie a little at a time, until you have none. From our friends at www.hk91.com quotes library: "Every good Communist should know that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. The Communist party must control the guns" -Mao Tse Tung
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 1:24:46 PM EDT
Oh yes, this scare me too. I am dissapointed that the Bush administration would support this, but not suprised at all. Bill Press (that ass) actually made sense, and sounded good when arguing angainst this. That alone is a sign of the end of the world. And warlord: Feinswine is ahead of her time. She has an uncanny ability to "predict" what we will have to deal with in the future. btt
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 1:35:08 PM EDT
I think they knew that the term "terrorism czar" would fail to inspire folks with confidence given the success of our drug czar. Of course, now the INS paramilitary units will have targets other than little Cuban kids.
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