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Posted: 9/20/2001 8:08:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 3:22:57 PM EDT by Colt-653]
This was something I was working on several weeks before the attack. Perfect timing? September 13, 2001 President George W. Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald H.Rumsfeld 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC 20500 Mr. President: Due to the recent tragedy in New York City and a need for increased national security, I purpose the following program be established, known heretofore as The United States National Defense Force (U.S.N.D.F.). The program will train able- bodied American citizen volunteers between the ages of 18-45 in the basic skills necessary to act as primary/secondary responders during times of national emergency or war. The course can be completed part-time on weekends in 5-11 months depending on the rate and amount of training attended. If required this training time can be shorten to 2.5 months. This Volunteer force will augment and provide support for Federal, State and Local Governments and will be able to act as citizen soldiers/emergency personnel in the event of war or national emergency. This program requires minimal financial output on behalf of the Federal or State Governments, as the training equipment is already available or can be procured from surplus Federal or State stocks. Projected cost of training 1000 students per year is less then $1.5 million dollars. The projected cost is outlined in the attached schedule (A) and can be readily adjusted. This program differs from Military Reserve, National Guard and State Guard programs in that it allows the average American citizen the ability to undergo basic military/emergency training without having to take 6-8 weeks out of their normal life/work schedule to attend basic training. This program can also be used by military/fire/police/EMT etc. to augment existing training. This will not only increase the number of people receiving training but will also save the government money by allowing basic infantry personnel to be assigned to units where they are needed or can be put to better use. An outline of the concept, training schedule, funding schedule, membership requirements and program goals is included. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, ---- ------
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:13:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:21:22 PM EDT
U.S.N.D.F. GENERAL OUTLINE Introduction: I. CONCEPT AND BASIC INFORMATION A. A National Defense force comprised of citizen volunteers who can be called to act as primary or secondary responders during times of war or national emergency. B. Open to all able-bodied American citizens between the ages of 18-45 with no criminal convictions or medical conditions. C. Volunteers will undergo an extended Basic training modeled after the U.S. military with emphasis on first aid, disaster response skills, and how to respond to NBC emergencies. D. Current, Reserve and former/abandoned military instillations will be utilized as training facilities. Recommend 1st Beta test site would be Fort Ord/Fort Hunter Ligget/Camp Roberts in Monterey, CA. The program can be started and ready to go as soon as 11/01/01. E. Instruction will be provided by current or reserve military personnel and/or Federal/State instructors. F. Volunteers will not be paid for their time but will be issued 4-5 college units and all applicable certificates (CPR, first aid , basic, etc..) upon completion of the program with a 70%+ average. All training materials and equipment will be provided by the government. Students may be required to provide for their own transportation fees. II. Funding and Equipment A. The program has a projected cost of $1.5 million or less per 1000 students per year. B. Outdated, surplus, or reserve materials and equipment from Federal/State stocks will be utilized for training or procured through normal supply chains. C. Instructors will be paid $250 per 10 hr. training day D. Projected cost to train each student is $1200.00 including all student expendable materials, training texts, uniforms and instructor salaries. III. Membership Requirements and Security Measures A. Open only to able-bodied American Citizens between the ages of 18-45 with no criminal convictions or medical problems. B. Students will be required to submit a detailed application, be finger printed, undergo a standard background investigation and must take an oath to defend the Constitution. C. Students will be required to undergo a basic skills test comprised of a written exam and physical exam and must pass both to be able to attend training. C. Students must pass each phase of the training with a 70% test average to be allowed to attend the next training session. D. Students will receive 4-5 college credits for completing the 5-11 month course (1 time only). F. Students are allowed to attend the program as many times as they wish provided they maintain a 70% average, are under age 45 and pass the physical exam.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:23:07 PM EDT
... yeah, and maybe we can bring our own "implements" to the party too!
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:24:11 PM EDT
##COURSE OUTLINE I. MONTH 1- Introduction and Orientation (Day 1&2) A. Introduction, course outline and orientation. B. Equipment and uniform issue and its use .(ST21-1-1). C. Basic drill and ceremonies (FM 22-5). D. Practical and written exam. II. Month 2- First Aid and CPR (day 1&2) A. Basic first aid and CPR. B. Emergency response and triage skills. C. Practical and written exam. I11. Month 3- Basic Rifle Marksmanship and weapons familiarization A. Introduction to the M16A1/A2 rifle, its use and maintenance.(TM 9-1005-319/249-10). B. Familiarization with the following weapons systems (M249, M60, M240, and M203). (TM 9-1005-201-10, TM 9-1005-224-10 Etc...) C. Live fire exercise, marksmanship test and written exam. IV. Month 4- Land Navigation and Survival Skill A. Map reading, Land Navigation, and Compass work ( SH 21-22 etc...). B. Field survival skills (FM-21-76). C. Practical and written exam. V. Month 5- Battle Drills/Combat Arms/First Aid II A. Basic battle drill, small unit tactics and team work exercises. B. Combat first aid skills, CPR practice and disaster relief scenarios/response . C. Practical exam and written exam. VI. Month 6- Introduction to Radio Communications/ Ropes course and Rappelling A. Introduction to the use of portable military/law enforcement/emergency radio communications. B. Use of ropes and rappelling for emergency/combat situations. C. Practical and written exam.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:25:04 PM EDT
VII. Month 7-Introduction to Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Weapons/Practical reaction course for Major disasters and NBC/WMD events A. Introduction to NBC warfare, defense and emergency response. B. Reaction course and practical exam of previous learned field skills with NBC elements. C. Practical and written exam. VIII. Month 8-Basic Rifle Marksmanship II/ Introduction-Familiarization with Heavy Weapons A. Practical marksmanship exam with the M16A1/A2 rifle. B. Introduction and familiarization with grenades, mines, anti-tank weapons , etc....(live fire demonstration) as well as countermeasures to them. C. Practical and written exam. IX. Month 9- Battle Drill/Combat Arms/First Aid III/NBC Drill A. Basic battle drills, small unit tactics and team work exercises. B. Review of first aid skill/disaster response. C. Reaction course using simulated NBC weapons. D. Practical and written exam. X. Month 10- Field Training exercise and Final Exams A. A series of practical, reactionary, and written exams that will test student proficiency of subjects learned. B. Practical and written exams
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 1:31:01 AM EDT
It's very late soI will just add a couple of things. Whats with the max age of 45, I am 50 and I am willing to help and fight. Plus why the training we don't need that type of training. Plus what about the Militia. All Americans should be able to help regardless of age, in fact the oldest Militiaman who fought at the battle of Concord was 75 and he was shot and bayoneted and survived another 20 years. I know the us code that states that the militia is between 18 and 45 but that does not count since the Militia predates it and has exsisted sine before the American Revolution. So please reconsider since you are doing a disservice to all the Patriots who do not fit into your idea of a defence force.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 3:21:21 AM EDT
I'd join if it was available. I like the ability to not take 8 weeks off for Basic Training, followed by 8 weeks or more for AIT. That has been my biggest drawback to the National Gaurd. As I am a student and the only time I have 8 weeks off is the Summer. I could go down every weekend if they wanted.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:57:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 8:06:15 AM EDT by Colt-653]
To answer some questions. 1.)The Course is set up to teach individuals with no Military, Law Enforcement or Emergency-Services training the basics they would need to act as emergency responders. The program will also allow emergency personnel(FD,LE,EMT, etc..)the oportunity to receive additional training outside of their department. 2.) I'd like to abolish the age limit after the program is established, but for the time being I'm leaving it at 45. 35 was the age limit set by the US Army/Military because it was found that a large percentage of age related health problems(knees, joints, back, etc.. as well as hereditary disease) develop in the 35-45 age range. If anyone can pass the entrance exam then they'll be free to participate. It would be great if every able-bodied American received this training and I'm all for amending the guidelines once the program is established. Thanks for everyones support
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 8:48:19 AM EDT
What health problems would be disqualifying? I don't make it under the military vision requirement, but would like to join if this were to take effect.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:50:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 9:32:52 PM EDT by Colt-653]
Written exam would test basic reading/comprehension skills--70% to pass Physical exam would include the following 1.) 1.5 mile run in 14 min or less 2.) 6 wall climb 3.) obstacle course Vision 20/20---20/20 corrected with minimum acuity of 20/200, capable of distinguishing basic color groups
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:20:53 PM EDT
Good luck! If it flys, I'm in. In California, we train Neighborhood Emergency Response Teams. These are small groups trained in the basics (CPR, first aid, basic search and rescue, etc.) to augment fire and EMS in case of a disaster. No military training though. Can't imagine arming them.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 12:40:39 PM EDT by Watch-Six]
I'm over 50 years old and certainly I am no longer anyones ideal infantry soldier. It has been 30 years since I joined the US Army. I would still fight if called to do so. More realistically, I could probably teach most of the courses that you have listed. I certainly would be willing to do so -- for free. My body isn't as good as it once was, but my marksmanship is much better and I am far smarter/wiser than when I enlisted. I would be willing to serve in any capacity that would help our troops. Watch-Six P.S. I am on a neighborhood emergency response team already. It also is a worthwhile thing to do.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 1:15:33 PM EDT
BTT- The orginal idea came after talking to a MSGT about low enlistment rates in the US Army. I envisioned a throw back to the Minutemen of the 1770's(Civilians until called upon). I found that a lot of people(SF/SJ Bay Area) wanted to serve in the military or receive military training but they weren't willing to give up their $100,000.00+ a year jobs to attend Basic. A lot of these people have various skills that would be of benefit to the Military(Tech and Language skills, etc...) The idea was orginal going to be used as a way for the Goevrnment to save money by not having to have a large standing Army as well as reducing the impacting on the economy by pulling people out of the work force. Let me know if you guys have more questions. Thanks for the support
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 1:32:41 PM EDT
One question. Where do I sign up?
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 3:23:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 10:59:56 PM EDT by Colt-653]
Everyone who is interested in seeing this go, please contact their state Reps. and let them know you're interested in this program. I've have thus far sent copies of this Position Paper to the following individuals: President Bush/White House Fax 202-456-2461 Governor Tom Ridge(Dir.of Homeland Security) Rep. Bob Barr 202-225-2944/770-528-9555 Col. David Hackworth teagles@hackworth.com Rush 212-563-9166 Col Geoff Metcalf www.ksfo560.com/Fax 603-697-7679 Mike Savage www.ksfo.com/ Fax 415-658-5401 Sean Hannity Fox News Fax 212-613-3823 A copy has also been sent to Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and all Secretaries of the Armed Forces and Joint Chiefs. Thanks for everyones help and lets get this going.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 3:30:24 PM EDT
Great idea, maybe during that eleven months I could get my tubby butt into shape :)
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 7:53:59 PM EDT
whats with the 20/80 vision thing. I flew as an Aircrewman in the USMC and I am 20/400 corrected to 20/20
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:35:38 PM EDT
Btt- just used vision standards I had on hand. Open to discussion. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 10:34:22 PM EDT
sounds like a good idea. Kinda like the original intent of the "militia" You have the constitution on your side. Send a copy of your plan to Gov. Tom Ridge. Good Luck
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 11:08:02 PM EDT
That's the whole idea. A simple return to the concept of the Minuteman or citizen soldier. I really think this can work and I'm doing everything I can to make sure it gets to the right people. Lets hope it's a go Thanks for your support
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 3:11:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 3:14:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 11:59:58 PM EDT
Osprey 21, you got it. Just like we did with the Hamlets in Vietnam and more to the point just like it was back in 1770's America. Va-gunnut. I think most Americans would support this. Screw the Democrats. It's time to make our country safe again. I think this will make a great recruiting tool for not only the 2nd Amendment cause but the US military as well. To everyone complaining about the vision requirements. I'm not an Optometrist. I am just using vision standards I had on hand. Any one who wants to send me info on the subject feel free to do so and I'll review it and forward it on. Thanks for everyones support
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 11:34:24 AM EDT
I would definitely be interested, I'm 35 going on 36, and too old for military service. As the US Constitution clearly states in the 2nd Amendment, the citizen militia is every bit as important as the military to the defense of our country from enemies both foreign and domestic. I'll have to work on the running part though, I haven't gone for a run in a long time. But I do put in at least 50 miles a week on my mountain bike. I know I could make it in at least 14 minutes. The way things are going, the US might need every able bodied man possible in order to free up more US forces overseas. Keep us updated, I've never heard of this program before. Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 1:28:41 PM EDT
NO AGE LIMIT, if I (or any one else) can pass the physical requirements, let em in. You young farts have got a lot to learn. Some of us have been there and done that, and I'll kick the ass of any one that says I'm too old to protect this country.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 3:15:12 PM EDT
Your phisical requirements are greater than any to join the military. Makes NO SENSE. Especially for a home guard.
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 4:53:48 PM EDT
I don't get it guys. We already have this, it's called the armed forces of the United States of America. Isn't the defense budget big enough for you yet? If they agree to cut the military by at least half, I would support USNDF to pick up the slack. Otherwise, no dice. And no National ID Cards required, either!
Link Posted: 9/24/2001 8:39:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2001 8:45:33 PM EDT by Colt-653]
We have a miltary that basically has four parts. 1.)Active 2.) Reserve 3.) National Guard 4.) State Guard( Not in every state) The problem with the above is you have to take a minimum of 8 weeks out of your normal schedule/life to attend basic. Currently there is 2 problems with this 1.) There are larger numbers of skilled individuals who don't want to take this amount of time off of work or be away from their families. This is a way to get these people trained so if the need ever arises they can be ready to respond with out having to go through Basic. 2.) If these individuals take 8 weeks off there's a economic factor to consider( Loss of their income going into the overall economy and the fact that Uncle Sam has to pay them during Basic.) I'm hearing people complain about the physical standards. If you can pass the basic skills test then you're free to train. The tested skills are the same general ones that are used not only in the US Army APFT but for hiring by Police and Fire Departments throughout the United States. The 18-45 age range was set due to many factors. One of which was increased likely hood of health issues. This why the cut off age for the Military, Federal Agencies and Police departments has generally been set at a maximum of 35-37 years for new hires. If you have the physical ablity to to pass the entrance exam feel free to attend training. I train with several guys(50+ years old) who can smoke guys half their age. What I'd like to see is for this thing to take off, so every able-bodied American citizen can get the skills and training necessary to defend our country. Let's work on getting this going, then we can modify it. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/27/2001 10:15:24 PM EDT
I agree with no age limit- you just have to pass the course. There are some 60 year olds in better shape than some 20 year olds I know. Also the vision thing- My own idea would be 20/20 or corrected to 20/20 using both eyes. Some people have a problem with one eye but have 20/20 or better in the other eye. Obviously perfect vision with both eyes open.
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 11:01:03 PM EDT
The vision requirements could be met by allowance for surgical techniques like RK, PRK, LASIK, etc. Newer, safer procedures are coming online which can, depending upon the individual case, restore one's vision to normal or near-normal. [shock]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:05:40 PM EDT
Who said CIDG? I want to join the CIDG. I'll bring my own green chinese web gear, SKS, and rice. "Chieu Hoi!...Chieu Hoi!" I guess any defecting Afghans can be Kit Carson Scouts. ------ My qualifications: -I'm a Civilian -I'm Irregular -I'm OK with Defence I only lack a -Group
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 12:59:51 PM EDT
Well, I'm about to turn 45. So I guess I'll have to be a free agent...:) It will probably be handy to have a few of us ruthless old farts around, who can kinda make our own rules as we go. We'll probably get more accomplished. We will be a little tougher target to spot than the uniformed USNDF personnel..... Rich
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 12:48:25 PM EDT
BTT- Lets get this thing rolling. Let your representatives know you want this program established in you home state. Thanks UPDATE: Will have a web page set up with more information by mid week.
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 1:38:43 PM EDT
Veterans should staff this type of organization. Why duplicate a system that already exists. In a time of crises, all able-bodied citizens will be subject to the draft. You need to utilize a proven commodity. People that have been trained and understand the discipline required for service. This precedent was set when they reactivate the Battleships in the 80’s and recalled WWII vets. Your UNITED STATES NATIONAL DEFENSE FORCE (U.S.N.D.F) should be open to all veterans that can serve in any capacity.
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 2:04:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 2:18:54 PM EDT
is this something actually in the works? i'm totally in, i was going to join the national guard next year anyway, if there's going to be a home guard like britian in the old days, i'd join in a heartbeat!
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 6:24:34 PM EDT
This sounds like a REALLY good idea. I'd like to suggest that we brainstorm ideas on how to get the media to notice this. The media is the most powerful political tool out there. Godspeed
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 9:58:43 PM EDT
This program is in the works. The proposal has been submitted to key individuals in the U.S. Government and media. The reason why I established the age limit at 45 is we need 100% of the enrollees to pass the first time out so we can show that the program works. I don't want liberal Democrats or the media labeling this as another bunch of out-of-shape Militia people. I'm all in favor of allowing anyone who passes the basic entrance exam to attend training. As far as using retired Military or LE as instructors, this has been part of the plan from the start. Once this is up and running, I'll establish a way for qualified individuals to submit resumes and background paperwork so they can be placed in a pool of instructors. If you want to see this program established, please let everyone including your Representatives know about it. Feel free to contact me via e-mail if you have questions. **Still working on getting the Web page up and running( Been sick with the damn Flu).*****
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 6:07:53 AM EDT
Sounds to me like the National Guard. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And speaking of age, when I was in the Guard a few years ago 96-98, we had quite a few Vietnam vets in my unit. Sorry, I don't see the need of another service doing the same thing.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:52:06 AM EDT
It's going to be kind of hard to make people give up their weekends for 11 months. I think you should restructure training so it's not one comprehensive training program. First, you need a recruitment program to determine what skills does an individual already have, there's no point in sending a trained MD or EMT through the first aid portion (or at least allow them to take a test to bypass these sections). Similarly, there's no point in having ex-Marines do the weapons training if they can pass a test. You should break it up into smaller components and courses. Like college, you'd have a course catalog with each issued a credit value and each course have a pre-req. To complete training, you need a certain number of credits from each section. So you can have: 1. CPR/EMT/life saving, possibly life guard/triage/Search and Rescue (this is a section, divided into smaller courses, obviously Search and Rescue is a far more advanced course than CPR. The more advanced stuff should open up as the person gains experience and demonstrate skill and proficiency) 2. Weapons/self defense (basic rifle handling skills, moving on to heavier weapons, tactics, unarmed, etc) Not of particular use but good for those interested and adds another buffer for the reserves. The active is the best trained, reserve second tier, Defense Force third tier, it'll be like an assembly line, different stages of readiness with different levels of commitment. 3. Police, securing an area, crowd control, etc 4. NBC response This should all be preceded by an indoc course to make clear the mission and expectations of members. I don't think this should primarily be a military organization, more of a civil organization, like Civil Air Patrol. Set it up like a continuing education thing, a lot of people head back to school in their later years to learn something new, why not some skills useful to national defense? It's free, and you can do it in your spare time. Biggest point: do not attach membership with obligatory military service. This should be a local, neighborhood level thing, responding to local emergencies, maybe those in surrounding areas if it's really bad. But this thing will never work if you attach it to the military.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:57:34 AM EDT
DO NOT make this a military organization, a lot of people don't want to join the military, they want to help out the neighborhood. You will turn off a lot of people if you emphasize military skills over practical life saving and emergency response skills. An individual should be allowed to select what to train in and what role he/she takes in this organization based on their individual strengths and interests. This program should be more structured like a free continued education program than a military boot camp. Even better idea, instead of training in military facilities, some of the courses can be taught on local college campuses. With the government footing the bill, I'm sure people would be glad to sign up and participate as a community. Of course weapons training would require military facilities or at least rifle ranges, but try to use existing civilian infrastructure as much as possible.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 10:36:29 AM EDT
I think we should have extensive MP5 training too............:)
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 12:49:42 PM EDT
What is the mission of this organization? For example: CMP: The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) promotes firearms safety training and rifle practice for all qualified U.S. citizens with special emphasis on youth. BSA: The purpose of the Boy Scouts of America, incorporated on February 8, 1910, and chartered by Congress in 1916, is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness. Civil Air Patrol: The Three Missions Cadet Programs Aerospace Education Emergency Services
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 8:34:23 PM EDT
In a nutshell the program allows the average US citizen to undergo Basic training( part time) with the added benefit of encouraging enlistment in the Miltary. Background on how this all started: About 9 months ago several former/current MSGTs from the 19th SF and I were discussing the low enrollment in the US Miltary and the fact that the US Army in particular was lowering its recruiting standards to get people to join. Several of them voiced that what was needed was an enlistment program that would encourge educated professionals to join. What they didn't want to see happen was a repeat of what happened during Vietnam where anyone and everyone was drafted/allowed to serve. I mentioned the fact that a lot of people I know in the tech field wanted to join the Miltary/Guard, but were unwilling to give up eight weeks of high pay to attend basic. A lot of these people are highly educated and often have various skills that would be of great benefit to the Miltary (tech, language etc...). About 4 months ago my wife and I went to Monterey, CA. Right near Monterey is a former US Army base called Fort Ord. Since the base closed in 1992, the property has largely remained unused except for a small portion that became Cal State Monterey. It was a great base, centrally located in CA, with perfect weather year round. Portions of the base (Hunter Ligget and Camp Roberts) are still used by the NG/Reserve, but the remainder of the base sits unused. The idea for the USNDF hit me as we drove past the base. What was needed was a way to get people interested in joining the miltary and/or a program that would allow educated working people to attend Basic without having to take eight weeks out of their work schedule. What I brainstormed was a a program similar to ROTC. Each person undergoes the same training as Basic but over an extended period of time by attending weekend classes. I felt this would be a great way of exposing people to what the Miltary was like and would hopefully encourge some of them to join up. Prior to 9-11, the idea was to start the USNDF program at Fort Ord or Camp Roberts as purely an enlistment and exposure tool. Post 9-11, it became evident that LE, Fire, EMT and most civilians had little or no basic civil defense training. I modified some aspects of the course so that the program could still be used for its orginal purpose but also as a training refresher program for the above mentioned groups.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 8:49:02 PM EDT
JZ02 To answer some of your questions. The program can be attended one of three ways: 1. One weekend a month for 11 months. 2.) Every other weekend for 5 months. 3.) Every weekend for 2.5 months. The program teaches basic skills only. It's not designed to make anyone an expert. It simply allows them to learn and practice basic miltary and emergency skills (similar to what the orginal civil defense program tried to do). A lot of people want to join the Miltary but either don't want to give up thier civlian life or have been turned off to the Miltary because of the crap that went on during Clinton's term in office. This program gives them a no obligation chance to see if they want to persue service in the armed forces. A major benefit of the whole program is the establishment of a trained ready reserve force that can protect the US if the SHTF or a major World War breaks out.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:06:56 PM EDT
i think it sounds like a possibility. but i have one question and i only ask because i don't know the answer, but my guess at it is disturbing to me. if people really wanted to take a more active role in defending hearth and home wouldn't the population as a whole be more apt to do one or more of the following things: 1. learn how to shoot and carry a firearm. 2. get certified (and stay certified) in basic first aid/CPR 3. become educated in some other form of emergency management training 4. support the idea that security starts with the individual taking responsibility for his/herself. 5. be more supportive of the current military/armed forces situation instead of screaming for cuts in funding because they don't want to bankroll a killing machine 6. join the military/armed forces for the purpose of protecting/defending the nation in the first pace. we've seen several examples of late where there are less than noble motivations for becoming a soldier/sailor/flyboy. i think the idea is great. but i think it's only going to appeal to those who would already have a tendency to want to join up in the armed forces whether it be actives, reserves, or guard. unfortunately, i'd say the majority of the population feels that it's somebody else's (read the government's) job to protect them. until we change that mind set, i'm not sure this will be much of a success.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:29:21 PM EDT
my problem with this is that it's still too much like a military program. A lot of people are simply not interested in the military. A lot of people who have some spare time would try to find a hobby or interest. Many of them take courses at local colleges like pottery or photography. Why not introduce courses like CPR, EMT training, life guard training, Weapons training, etc. They can just take those courses or they can get in with the program and complete a series and get like a degree or a certification
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:44:35 PM EDT
I don't see anywhere in your training outline a course outlining the judicous use of deadly physical force , federal and state statues on the use of non-deadly force. What authority if any are you going to give these people , if you give them guns then you have to train them on all aspects of the law including search and seazure, probable cause etc... Not a good idea
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 10:04:37 PM EDT
ARlady, Thanks for the questions/comments I'll try to address them as follow: 1.Every year thousands of people take up shooting often with little or no formal training . This program can help by instructing these people in the safe and proper handling of firearms. Orginally the intent of this portion of the program was to let people play with miltary hardware (remember this was going to be an enlistment tool). If we want to keep our 2nd amend.rights we're going to have to do everything in our power to put as much positive spin on the right to own guns as possible. 2.)CPR should be a required skill for everyone. It's a requirement for many jobs(LE, Teaching etc..) but people are often hard pressed to find available courses or often have to pay large fees to attend the certification course.It's one of those skills that I've found myself using many times not only as a LEO but as a civilian . It should be a madatory skill required in all schools and companies. 3.)Emergency training is often over looked by companies due to budgetary concerns. It's amazing the number of companies that I consult for that provide little or no training for their staff on how to handle basic work place emergencies. Often there isn't even a written policy on how to handle simple emergency situtions. OSHA would have a field day if they knew this. 4.) I can't tell you the number of times as a Cop that I had to tell people our job was not really to protect them but to catch/investigate the bad guys after a crime was committed. Because of the Media people have been lead to believe that LEO's are the ultimate thing in protection. I hate to tell them but often response times can be as high as 30-40 minutes especially on busy nights. Anyone who doesn't provide for their own safety is destine to become a victim. 5.) I honestly feel that 85%+ of the population is pro miltary. The problem is the media only promotes the anti-miltary rhetoric. It's been that way ever since the first liberal crawled out from under its rock. 6.) This program is a way for people to get a basic exposure to the miltary. It's better to learn you don't like the military lifestyle prior to signing up for an extended hitch. It's also a way for a person who doesn't want to be in the military FT/PT to at least gain an understanding of what it's like to be in the military and will hopefully allow them to appreciate what our men and women in the armed forces do. Overall I think it's every able bodied Americans duty to not only be a protector for the Country but for thier community as well. Thanks for the comments and keep lettting me know what you guys think.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 10:15:07 PM EDT
Colt M4 Rules of engagement are factored into the training curriculum(based on CA PC 832). remember what has been posted is not the entire course curriculum it's just a simple course outline. Weapons issued are for training only and are not retained by the students. At this stage this is a training program only, if and when this force would be called upon to protect the US the controlling authority( most likely the State Governor) would be the one to authorize issue of weapons and determine the appropriate rules of force/engagment.
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