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Posted: 9/17/2001 4:05:15 PM EDT
From the Parent's Help Kit at www.paxusa.org You may think I’m being a bit forward but I’m sure you agree that when it comes to our children’s safety none of us want to take any chances. I recently learned that over 40% of households with children have a gun and that every year thousands of children are killed or injured in accidents involving an adult’s gun. Anyone have a link to more realistic numbers so I can correct these yahoos?
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:38:45 PM EDT
Yeah. [url]www.nra.org[/url] Look for the fact sheet. [b]Total[/b] killed (of all ages) by firearm accidents every year is down around 700, including hunting accidents. Not bad for 260 million people with 150 million guns. Norm
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:43:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Yeah. [url]www.nra.org[/url] Look for the fact sheet. [b]Total[/b] killed (of all ages) by firearm accidents every year is down around 700, including hunting accidents. Not bad for 260 million people with 150 million guns. Norm
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Norm!! Sorry, bad memories from the days of Cheers. Did you get that 150 million figure from the NRA? I have seen that number as high as 280 million.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:54:31 PM EDT
In the Uniform Crime Report (www.fbi.org), there is a figure of 1535 deaths by firearm for ages 0-20. We know that they use the ages of 0-20 to define 'children', because ages 17-19 account for 1068 of those murders (thank you, gang activity). Furthermore, they go on to make the claim that: . . . many parents think that a gun in the home is protective rather than dangerous. In reality,a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to kill or injure a friend or family member than an intruder. Now I know that claim has been debunked numerous times (and here I think it is misquoted, isn't the figure 42), but where?
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:58:12 PM EDT
"You may think I’m being a bit forward but I’m sure you agree that when it comes to our children’s safety none of us want to take any chances. I recently learned that over 95% of households with children have a bathtub and that every year thousands of children are killed or injured in accidents involving a bathtub." Save the children now, ban the evil bathtubs.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:10:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Born_In_The_PRK: "You may think I’m being a bit forward but I’m sure you agree that when it comes to our children’s safety none of us want to take any chances. I recently learned that over 95% of households with children have a bathtub and that every year thousands of children are killed or injured in accidents involving a bathtub." Save the children now, ban the evil bathtubs.
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Oh no, we'll have smelly children!
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:17:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 6:33:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: Folks this one is a no win situation. Yes we know that far more children die by other means, but as a parent I would argue that one is too many. As responsible gun owners it is our job to keep our weapons out of children's unsupervised hands. This is not a political argument it is an absolute. I am well aware that the numbers are skewed due to the way the data is collected, but it does not matter. If it was your kid, it would not matter that the number was wrong, just that one would matter. It is therefore our duty as responsible gun owners to act responsibly and urge our fellows to do the same.
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agreed, but that's a different battle. totally different tactics. try [url]www.guntruths.com[/url] for some myth debunking.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:10:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By shotar: Folks this one is a no win situation. Yes we know that far more children die by other means, but as a parent I would argue that one is too many. As responsible gun owners it is our job to keep our weapons out of children's unsupervised hands. This is not a political argument it is an absolute. I am well aware that the numbers are skewed due to the way the data is collected, but it does not matter. If it was your kid, it would not matter that the number was wrong, just that one would matter. It is therefore our duty as responsible gun owners to act responsibly and urge our fellows to do the same.
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agreed, but that's a different battle. totally different tactics. try [url]www.guntruths.com[/url] for some myth debunking.
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ARLady got the jist. I admit that when my nieces and nephews come over, the safe goes shut. I can't keep my eyes on all of them all the time. But to send nervous soccer moms to the PTA quoting bogus statistics that 'thousands' of kids are killed every day, that is another face of gun-grabbing hysteria. So I worked up the following letter. Let's see if I get a reply.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:11:15 AM EDT
To whom it may concern: While you are renovating your site, please consider the following corrections: According to the Uniform Crime Report of 1999, 1535 persons between the age of 0 and 20 were killed by firearms in that year, not the 3500 your website claims. There are several places where the claim is made that: "thousands of children are killed or injured in accidents involving an adult’s gun." According to the National Safety Council (www.nsc.org), in 1998 there were 700 unintentional injuries and deaths from firearms. I also find it interesting that the website cites that "a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to kill or injure a friend or family member than an intruder." I believe this to be a misquote of an invalid statistic. The study by Kellerman, et al, in the _New England Journal of Medicine_ from 1993 that claimed that a firearm in the home was 42 times more likely to kill a friend or family member, but this statistic was derived from dubious data. 85% of the deaths in the data pool are suicides. There has never been a link established between suicide and gun ownership or the above quote would be sure to mention it. Any successful use of a firearm in self-defense is excluded from the sample, as the authors were not looking for benefits of gun ownership. This is a grave oversight since firearms are used to prevent a large number of violent crimes. Estimates range from 76,000 per year (1996 National Victim Crime Survey) to 2.1 million (_Point Blank: Guns & Violence in America_, Gary Kleck). Even the lower estimate would mean that for every murder committed with a firearm, a firearm averts 4 violent crimes. Also, one does not evaluate the deterrent effect of a police department by the number of bodies it produces, so it is absurd to think one can evaluate the benefit or cost of firearms ownership by counting incidents which result in a fatality. Just let me say in closing that firearms safety is far too important an issue to jeopardize by using sensational statistics. In order to make a meaningful impact, you will need to gain the trust of the much-maligned gun owners of America. By urging mutual respect your organization has taken a step in the right direction. Another step would be to mend your facts so people using your materials sound more like concerned parents and not like gun-grabbing lunatics (like Kellerman). Sincerely, Joseph Ess muselix@angelfire.com
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:27:12 AM EDT
I was thinking a lot of those were suicides. Good letter.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 12:07:53 PM EDT
Ummm, your original question was about "accidents". The 1535 number included criminal killings and suicides. Apples & oranges. That boinging sound was their trap springing shut on your leg. Norm
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 12:24:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 12:36:20 PM EDT by Muselix]
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Ummm, your original question was about "accidents". The 1535 number included criminal killings and suicides. Apples & oranges. That boinging sound was their trap springing shut on your leg. Norm
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In the letter I am responding to points brought up on the website and materials they've prepared for your neighbors and PTA. They make the claim in several places that "10 people every day are killed" and that "3500" deaths take place every year. I don't think the 1535 number includes suicides, since www.guntruths.com says in 1997 there were 17,566 suicides with firearms.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 12:55:22 PM EDT
Not bad for 260 million people with 150 million guns.
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Should it not be 150 million people with 260 million guns [>:/] because the other way around makes it sound like people are sharing ownership. I concur with Muselix's info which is why they now say "Young People" instead of children as "Young People" now include the gang members under 20 years of age.
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