Quoted: Quoted: It's Christmas fer chrissakes. I celebrate it, just like most Americans. I do not remember ever seeing in the Bill of Rights where someone has the right not to be offended. I get offended everyday when people come into my Country illegally. I get offended when people refuse to speak English (whether they are illegal, legal non-immigrants or immigrants) and want us to accomodate them. I get offended when people are too fucking lazy to get a job and suck off the tit of society. Maybe I should threaten a lawsuit? Bad idea, you would be a racist and offend minorties

Actually, this one minority and a legal immigrant supports KBoltz's views, every one of them.

Quoted: If Christmas trees were a Christian symbol I think the rabbi might have a point.  They're as secular as mother's day cards.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So does this mean that every town or city can be sued for having there main Street decorated ? Is'nt public tax dollars are used for those decorations ? This Rabid Rabi needs to get a life.                           ` Unfortunately, if public funds are used to decorate public spaces, as soon as those decorations have any religious connotation (especially if highlighting ONE religious faith and 'excluding' others), there is the possibility of a lawsuit. PUBLIC FUNDS HAVE BEEN USED TO DECORATE OUR NATION'S PUBLIC AREA SINCE THE BEGINNING.  That argument would have no weight in court if a competent government lawer would defend against it.

I'm not sure "we used to do it all the time, so it must be okay" is a legal defense against a constitutional challenge.

If something that is technically "unconstitutional" has been going on for years, but nobody challenged it, that doesn't make it constitutional.  It merely means that it will be allowed to continue UNTIL someone challenges it.

Quoted: Quoted: If Christmas trees were a Christian symbol I think the rabbi might have a point.  They're as secular as mother's day cards. +1

To be fair, some Christians get really bent out of shape if you DARE to call it a secular "holiday tree"

As a non-religious person I would have to say that this seems dumb even to me.  A Christmas tree is a pretty secular symbol.  Call it a Holiday Tree if you must, but a lot of the decorative stuff related to Christmas these days has little to do with Christ or Christianity.

From local media reports, the Rabbi is  back pedaling hard, claiming he never had a problem with the Christmas trees, and will be contacting the Airport to ask the trees be put backup.

Werent Christmas trees ie boughs originally a pagan idea, adopted by the Christian faith????

What an asshole...

Quoted: From local media reports, the Rabbi is  back pedaling hard, claiming he never had a problem with the Christmas trees, and will be contacting the Airport to ask the trees be put backup.

Awesome.  

Hopefully he got TONS of hate mail, including from other Jews who told him what an ass he is being.

He will get his just reward...not for getting xmas trees banned at SEATAC...but for denying Jesus as the Messiah.

The Drudge Report strikes again [as far as publicizing this story].

Time to move on to the Feats of Strength.

Quoted: To be fair, some Christians get really bent out of shape if you DARE to call it a secular "holiday tree"

The Lowes store nearby received a lot of flack from Christians by selling "Holiday Trees" last year, they now sell Christmas Trees.

My neighbor feels they [Christians] won a "victory for Jesus" by getting Lowes to reverse their policy.

Go figure.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's Christmas fer chrissakes. I celebrate it, just like most Americans. I do not remember ever seeing in the Bill of Rights where someone has the right not to be offended. I get offended everyday when people come into my Country illegally. I get offended when people refuse to speak English (whether they are illegal, legal non-immigrants or immigrants) and want us to accomodate them. I get offended when people are too fucking lazy to get a job and suck off the tit of society. Maybe I should threaten a lawsuit? Bad idea, you would be a racist and offend minorties Actually, this one minority and a legal immigrant supports KBoltz's views, every one of them.

I am Asian, so that makes two of us, buddy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If Christmas trees were a Christian symbol I think the rabbi might have a point.  They're as secular as mother's day cards. +1 To be fair, some Christians get really bent out of shape if you DARE to call it a secular "holiday tree"

I'll agree with you there.  For myself I disagree with them being called Holiday Trees as well, not because it dechristianized the pagan fertility symbol...but because a brightly decorated pine tree in december just IS called a christmas tree.  That a thing has the word Christmas attached to it does not make it a relgious item at all.  Christmas cookies, Christmas decorations, etc.  I simply get irritated when people try to change the name of things on the altar of PC.

I guess some people just cannot get it into their heads that Christmas is as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one these days.

This thread raises the fascinating (to me) question of whether or not there is a Menorah at the White House - because I know they've got Christmas trees there.

Has anyone whined about that yet?

Quoted: There seems to be a minority within the Jewish faith who seem to go out of their way to piss on Christian holidays, symbols and Christians in general. Every year, there is some Jewish person who gets in a lather over Christmas trees, nativity scenes, etc. One year, some broad in Florida got in a tizzy because the minora in front of a court house was not as big as the Christmas tree. I do not get why some Jews seem so intent on fucking with people at Christmas.

It's because Chanukah is inferior in the materialistic gift department to Christmas and every Jewish kid I've ever known felt inferior that time of the year.

Quoted: As a non-religious person I would have to say that this seems dumb even to me.  A Christmas tree is a pretty secular symbol.  Call it a Holiday Tree if you must, but a lot of the decorative stuff related to Christmas these days has little to do with Christ or Christianity.

Including: 70% OFF signs at your local Jewish Merchant.

They should be thankful we shop.... otherwise their businesses might not fair as well.

Since nobody has taken the time to check out the Port of Seattle's web page may I be so bold as to give you a hint of it?

Holiday Tree Removal: The Port of Seattle is an organization that works with and respects cultures from around the world. The decision to remove the holiday trees was made to avoid litigation with a local religious organization which wanted to install a menorah and hold a lighting ceremony. The airport is not a traditional public forum and it would not be appropriate for such a ceremony, so we made the decision to remove the trees to allow the airport staff to focus on the busy travel season. This also provides time to have a thoughtful and respectful discussion about appropriate seasonal decorations for the future. This is a complicated issue, and can be an emotional one for people of all faiths and traditions. Due to the large number of e-mails about this issue, it will not be possible to respond to each individual who writes, calls and/or sends an e-mail message. Your opinion is valued and, if you choose to leave a message for the Port of Seattle, your comments will be shared with appropriate staff and officials.

Linky

Edit: This is their contact page.

Folks are just intent on slapping training wheels on everything and sucking the life out of life.

Happy Festivus ya'll.

Quoted: Quoted: This thread raises the fascinating (to me) question of whether or not there is a Menorah at the White House - because I know they've got Christmas trees there. Has anyone whined about that yet? There is a very large Menorah on the Elipse along with the National Christmas tree.  They have a lighting ceremony every year. Edited to add: There is also a full size Manger scene as well.

Correct. One of the Chabad Rabbis in our area was invited to attend last year.

Quoted: It's because Chanukah is inferior in the materialistic gift department to Christmas and every Jewish kid I've ever known felt inferior that time of the year.

Believe me, you would not want to pay for just the food at our home during those eight days.

Quoted: Well, we conservatives believe on the premise that this country was founded on Judeo - Christianity principles, so I think the Rabbi has a valid point

Umm, one of the Founding Father's was Jewish?  That is news to me.  I don't think there was a single Jew that fought in the revolution that I am aware of, but feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong.

This country was founded on Christian principles like it or not and it may be more PC to say Judeo-Christians, but that simply isn't the truth.  

You can't say the nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles anymore than you can call the Pope a Jew.  

Know the Law Folks.

In Lynch v. Donnelly. 465  U.S. 668 (1984) the Supreme Court stated:

American history is replete with government recognition of our religious heritage and with official expression of religious beliefs.  This does not violate the Establishment Clause unless, in reality, it establishes a religion or religious faith , or tends to do so.

The Court went on to hold that:

A city's inclusion of a Nativity scene in the context of a larger annual Christmas display (e.g., including Santa Claus, a Christmas tree, a "Seasons Greetings" banner and the like) does not violate the Establishment Clause.  The purpose is not "motivated wholly by religious considerations, but is rather to take account of the "historical origins" of Christmas, and the beneficials effect of religion is only "indirect, remote, and incidental."

If the Supreme Court has held that a Nativity merely reflects the history of the origins of the Christmas holiday when along side nonreligious Christmas decorations like a Santa Clause and Christmas tree than I seriously doubt any court would find the Christmas tree alone to be a violation of the Establishment Clause.

SEA-TAC had a VERY strong case to defend their Christmas decorations, but either chickened out or didn't want to deal with the legal headache.  

The Rabbi was dead wrong and any attorney worth his salt could tell you so.  

This POS asswipe is now trying spin the story due to all the unfavorable overwhelming incoming responses.

He's trouble, put him on the "No-Fly" list.

UPDATE:

Monday, December 11, 2006 · Last updated 8:48 p.m. PT

Trees are going back up at Sea-Tac
Port officials assured rabbi would not file a lawsuit

By AMY ROLPH
P-I REPORTER

Christmas is coming twice this year to the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

After days of controversy -- and national media attention -- surrounding the Port of Seattle's decision to take the decorative holiday trees down, port staff will be working Monday night to reinstall them throughout the airport.

It will no longer be "Treeless in Seattle," as CNN reported round the clock.

The initial decision to remove the trees came the day after Port commissioners were informed that a local rabbi intended to file a lawsuit if an eight-foot menorah was not constructed beside the largest of the trees. But Port officials Monday night were assured the rabbi would not file a lawsuit and the Port then decided to put the trees back up.

"There's been such an outcry from the public - from people of all faiths - who believe that the trees should be reinstalled," Port Commission President Pat Davis said in a statement Monday night. "I'm very thankful that we can return the trees and get back to running our airport during this very busy holiday season."

Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky of Chabad Lubavitch organization in the University District had originally requested a menorah display at the airport, saying his organization wants to diversify the airport's display. But removing the trees was not its intention.

Chabad Lubavitch provided menorahs for public display in more than 20 locations statewide, including at the Seattle Center.

The organization's request is usually met with enthusiasm, Bogomilsky said."This whole thing is just beyond me -- I'm so appalled and disappointed," he said. "By no means did we want to remove these (trees)."

A representative from Chabad Lubavitch started talking with airport officials in October, and a lawyer informed them of a possible lawsuit at least a week ago, Bogomilsky said.



Airport officials said they were worried about the threat of litigation.

"It was either, 'put up the menorah,' or they would go to federal court and sue us 18 hours later," Davis said before the agreement was reached to put the trees back up. "They wouldn't wait."

No matter what happens, Chabad Lubavitch has no intention of filing a lawsuit anymore, Bogomilsky said.

Amy Rolph can be reached at 206-448-8335 or [email protected].

Trees Being Returned to SeaTac Airport


SEATAC, Wash. (AP) - Christmas trees are going back up at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

Pat Davis, president of the Port of Seattle commission, which directs airport operations, said late Monday that maintenance staff would restore the 14 plastic holiday trees, festooned with red ribbons and bows, that were removed over the weekend because of a rabbi's complaint that holiday decor did not include a menorah.

Airport managers believed that if they allowed the addition of an 8-foot-tall menorah to the display, as Seattle Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky had requested, they would also have to display symbols of other religions and cultures, which was not something airport workers had time for during the busiest travel season of the year, Airport Director Mark Reis said earlier Monday.

Port officials received word Monday afternoon that Bogomilsky's organization would not file a lawsuit at this time over the placement of a menorah, Davis said in a statement.


"Given that, the holiday trees will be replaced as quickly as possible," he said.

Davis added that the rabbi "never asked us to remove the trees; it was the port's decision based on what we knew at the time."
There were no immediate plans to display a menorah, airport spokesman Bob Parker said, saying restoration of the trees was expected to take place overnight Monday.

"A key element in moving forward will be to work with the rabbi and other members of the community to develop a plan for next year's holiday decorations at the airport," the port statement said.

The rabbi has also offered to give the port an electric menorah to display, said his lawyer, Harvey Grad.


"We are not going to be the instrument by which the port holds Christmas hostage," Grad said, emphasizing the rabbi never sought removal of the trees, but addition of the menorah.
The rabbi had received "all kinds of calls and emails," many of them "odious," Grad said, adding he was "trying to figure out how this is consistent with the spirit of Christmas."

Thirteen trees had sat above foyers that lead outside to the airport drive. The largest tree, which Reis estimated to be 15 or 20 feet tall, was placed in a large lobby near baggage claim for international arrivals.

After the removal, some airline workers decorated ticketing counters with their own miniature Christmas trees.

Customer service agents with Frontier Airlines pooled their money Monday morning to buy four 1-foot-high Christmas trees, which they placed on the airline's ticketing counter. Atop a Delta counter, workers put up a tree several feet tall.

The airlines lease space for ticket counters from the airport, and can display trees there if they want, Reis said.

---

Quoted: This POS asswipe is now trying spin the story due to all the unfavorable overwhelming incoming responses.

+1

And on every media outlet he can find.

Seattle Times sucked him off yesterday, the port owed him an apology according to the liar writer.

He ended up getting pwn3d on conservative AM radio, but they tried to spin it. Never would answer whether or not the threatened a lawsuit. Guess they were at least bright enough to know it was a serious PR disaster.