Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/15/2001 12:02:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2001 12:59:20 PM EDT by libertyof76]
Here is a great article from an excellent site: [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/clark1.html[/url] My favorite quote: "Probably the single greatest thing that can be done to prevent future attacks is for the United States to abandon interventionism and mind its own business."
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:04:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2001 12:14:18 PM EDT by Sweep]
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:11:33 PM EDT
So, more support of the terrorists who committed this attack arises. About the author of the article:
Paul Clark (localsov@bellatalantic.net) is Director of Coalition for Local Sovereignty (www.localsov.com), a veteran of the Gulf War and also worked with the mujahadin in Afghanistan
View Quote
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:17:12 PM EDT
No, that would be an idiotic article from a moronic site. Just a small correction. The single greatest thing that can be done to prevent future attacks is for the United States to kill all the filthy butchering terrorists and destroy the military infrastructure of the countries that shelter and support them. The second greatest thing that can be done is to expose people who write articles such as this for the morons they are.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:18:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:19:29 PM EDT
Some of the things he says are true. I think the US has some beef in some issues of interventionism, though. It is in the best interest of one Republic to make sure it has allies that are also Republics/Democracies. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, I think the saying goes. I support the US returning to a largely isolationist foreign policy, but we must first act to make these terror attacks right. After then, we shall change.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:20:45 PM EDT
Your kidding right? This nation will always have enemies who want to bring it down. Some for our interventions and some for isolationism. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2001 12:47:46 PM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By RikWriter:No, that would be an idiotic article from a moronic site. Just a small correction. The single greatest thing that can be done to prevent future attacks is for the United States to kill all the filthy butchering terrorists and destroy the military infrastructure of the countries that shelter and support them. The second greatest thing that can be done is to expose people who write articles such as this for the morons they are.
View Quote
Hmm, so the only defense of your position is that we are "idiotic" and "moronic". How is that different from antigunners calling us "wackos" and "nuts"? I support punishing those who attacked the WTC and the Pentagon. But we also must ask "Why did this happen?"
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:51:55 PM EDT
Rikwriter only wants to read articles that say "kill the ragheads" and "nuke all muslims".
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:54:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2001 12:55:59 PM EDT by Sweep]
Unless you like the Amish lifestyle you have to support US interventionism. Otherwise you are a hypocrite and lower than dirt.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:02:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Hmm, so the only defense of your position is that we are "idiotic" and "moronic". How is that different from antigunners calling us "wackos" and "nuts"? I support punishing those who attacked the WTC and the Pentagon. But we also must ask "Why did this happen?"
View Quote
He did not call you 'idiotic' or 'moronic'. He called the author and website those names. As for asking why, we don't need to. Why is completely irrelevant at this point. There is no excuse for this, period. No whining about intervention, no anything at all. You can make all the excuses you want to for these terrorists, but all we need to ask is who did it and where are they, then wipe them out.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:04:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Unless you like the Amish lifestyle you have to support US interventionism. Otherwise you are a hypocrite and lower than dirt.
View Quote
Why can we NOT have a civilized discussion? Why is it that everyone who supports interventionism attacks those who supports political isolationism? They sound just like antigunners do when they attack gun owners.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:08:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Why can we NOT have a civilized discussion? Why is it that everyone who supports interventionism attacks those who supports political isolationism? They sound just like antigunners do when they attack gun owners.
View Quote
Because, for the most part, the isolationist point of view is based on racist anti-Semitism.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:09:56 PM EDT
Bring those involved in the WTC act to justice. Then the U.S. should stay completely out of civil wars and conflicts that have been going on for hundreds of years. You can't make groups of people who have hated each other for generations love each other overnight. The side that is not backed by the U.S. will then teach further generations that America is the enemy and as these are usually poor countries, they will resort to the only tactic they can use: terrorism.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:12:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:He did not call you 'idiotic' or 'moronic'. He called the author and website those names.
View Quote
Yes, you are right he didn't. But since I supported that website, and I agree to the article, it is implied that I am.
As for asking why, we don't need to. Why is completely irrelevant at this point. There is no excuse for this, period. No whining about intervention, no anything at all. You can make all the excuses you want to for these terrorists, but all we need to ask is who did it and where are they, then wipe them out.
View Quote
I'm not making any excuses for them. But we DO need to ask why. If not now, when?
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:16:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Because, for the most part, the isolationist point of view is based on racist anti-Semitism.
View Quote
Give me a break! I didn't want the U.S. to intervene in the Kosovo/Yugoslavia civil war so that makes me a racist anti-semite? I haven't seen you call for intervention in any of the African civil wars that still go on today? That must make you a racist anti-African.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 1:24:01 PM EDT
HUGE RANT I want blood as much as anyone. These bastards need to pay. But, God damn it, we are always talking about personal responsibility on this board. I am absolutely just F$%%$%ing losing it with you people who think our foreign policies and actions have had absolutely no effect in what led up to WTC. Not the bombing it self, mind you. We did not deserve it. Period. But we need to suck it up and flat out face the face that if we keep putting fingers in the worlds pies people are going to start to bitch. LarryG, Rik, ArmdLbrl... that is pure nonsense. I am SICK of you people saying that anyone who suggests we review our own policies supports the terrorists. That makes you the most unpatriotic MFers here. This in no way supports the terrorists. If you would pull your finger off the trigger for one second you will realize that you need a plan after you fire your shots. The people who are saying this are trying to make sure that even after we have our sweet revenge this shit never happens again. You talk all the shit you want about "never again" but unless you have the balls to figure out how we are going to deal with this from here on out quit slamming the people who do. As for needing interventionism, if we could kick anyones ass who pisses us off (read: big F'ing military) then kept our noses out of peoples domesatic affairs and only focused on trade we would be much better off. The fear of our absolule wrath is enough to deter an afront to us. as long as we do it when provoked. This 50years of political mamby-pamby is why we are in this mess. Primarily because we always squeak out a solution, usually at the cost of risking someof our security or rights as payment. We all know what Franklin said. End rant Zaz
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:06:33 PM EDT
I wish someone could explain to me how isolationism can be successful in an open society, whose wealth and freedom is the envy of most of the world, who is the last remaining super power, and who relies on foreign oil imports for her industrial machine?
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:20:33 PM EDT
READ THIS FIRST: I am expressing my opinion here, my personal belief that I am allowed to have as an American citizen who has served his country's military. Before you go flaming me into a crispy little turd, I am not saying anyone else is wrong for believing otherwise. The more we poke around in other people's business, the more likely we are to piss people off and get whacked. OK, I accept that. The price of freedom is high. Sometimes too high for some to stomach. In order to protect our way of life, we need to be proactive in manipulating the events of those countries much more volatile than ours. Otherwise, one day the doorbell will ring and guess who it'll be? Mr. I-hate-America and his vastly superior army come to teach you the beat-down shuffle. I would rather stand guard against those that would lash out against us knowing that we were preventing some truly devastating circumstances from developing in the world than "hope" that nothing was building up against me unchecked somewhere. I don't think I've done my feelings justice here but, I hope you get my point. Ok, fire away...[peep]
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:30:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: I wish someone could explain to me how isolationism can be successful in an open society, whose wealth and freedom is the envy of most of the world, who is the last remaining super power, and who relies on foreign oil imports for her industrial machine?
View Quote
There are none so blind as those who will not see. I hope it is a symptom of shock that some of these people are thinking as they are but we might have to resign ourselves to the fact that there are some incredibly naive people out there.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:50:19 PM EDT
The immediate problem we as Americans face is that we are going to fight a creature of our own making. A real Frankenstein. I don't have the link, but if you care to search out the lead editorial in today's "The Times of India" you will see what I mean. DonR has the text of the article but he will have to publish it. Please respect me and don't ask.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:57:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: I wish someone could explain to me how isolationism can be successful in an open society, whose wealth and freedom is the envy of most of the world, who is the last remaining super power, and who relies on foreign oil imports for her industrial machine?
View Quote
It did`nt work in the past, and it never will....anyway it is WAY too late to even think about it now.....the best thing to do now is upgrade our intelligence network.....as it has been said......"know your enemy".....this world is WAY TOO small today.......
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 5:07:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sweep: [url]www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/clark1.html[/url] I agree with this article except in one aspect. We are backed into a corner and must shoot the dog that has bit us, even if we did provoke him into it.
View Quote
Jeez. Stop being a whiney appologist. We provoked NOBODY. If someone I know should get shot by an AK47 should I then declare a terrorist war on Russia for manufacturing it and then importing it into America? I support arming Isreal because if we didn't, nobody would.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 5:18:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 5:37:54 PM EDT
No-----but you COULD sue them.......[smoke]
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 5:48:21 PM EDT
ISOLATIONISM. INTERVENTIONISM. two extremes. and just like most other things in this world, extremist viewpoints tend not to be the best, work the best, or have the best results. everything in moderation. there is a middle ground. and i'm surprised that no one has seen it or mentioned it yet. our involvement with Israel (to use as an example since this seems to be the favorite one on the board) is contingent on our relationship with that country. it is our ally (although i realize that is open for debate, but let's not do it here please.) we conduct business with it because it is our ally. we cannot expect it to remain an ally if we do not treat it as such. our involvement is to to the mutual benefit of both countries. on the otherhand, there are several instances where we really have just prolonged the inevitable or increased tensions by taking sides in conflicts where we are not allied to any of the parties involved. this is especially true when we have not been invited into the conflict. this would qualify as sticking our noses in someone else's business. neither isolationism, cutting ourselves off from EVERY other country, nor interventionism, butting in when we have not been asked to, are not probable, or even preferable goals for the U.S. isolationism stands in the way of maintaining our standing among the nations of the world, and while some of you might be okay with that, i don't think most of America is. interventionism incredibly increases our chances of really pissing someone off. if we happen to piss someone off by doing business with our ally, who happens to be said someone's enemy, well, that's someone else's problem. a strong nation does not make decisions based on what other countries [i]might[/i] do. it makes decisions based on its best interests and prepares for the consequences. that we might piss someone off should be taken into consideration, but i don't think it should every be made the deciding factor. for those of you who say that interventionism by the U.S. is [i]the[/i] reason for the terrorist attacks, the target would have been the U.N. building for they are the interventionists in this world. the U.S. will be hated by some nations regardless of our politics, so it does us no good to make them (politics) based on how others will perceive us. just my nickel.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 6:09:51 PM EDT
Well, I suppose we could just name Osama Bin Laden the new U S Secretary of State and let him get on with his busy work of dictating our foreign policy for us! I think that we should understand that another such attack is even now being plotted by our enemies, and we can either spend an enormous amount of time and money safeguarding every public building in the US, or we can simply go get rid of the den of poisonous snakes once and for all! Eric The(GetMeAStick!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 6:24:29 PM EDT
If the U.S. can't even solve its own crime, drug, racial, religious, and gender problems, I don't give it much hope in trying to solve any other country's problems anywhere in the world by intervening in their business.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 6:29:27 PM EDT
I've got just four letters for you....... ICBM
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 6:46:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2001 6:51:52 PM EDT by imposter]
So Neville Chamberlain was right at Munich? Give your enemies whatever they want, and they will be nice to you? Face facts, we are and will be involved in the middle east as long as we need the oil. We can not allow any strong nation to control all of it. Allow that to happen, and you will be selling our souls to those nuts. If Hussein or the Iranians get control of all the oil, we will be paying $75 a barrel for oil and you will not have a job. Our prosperity is fundamentally dependent on cheap middle eastern oil, and cheap oil demands weak and divided Arab states. There is no one else to maintain the balance of power in the region. Our "friends" in the gulf, those sand dunes sitting on top oceans of oil, are just to weak to maintain themselves. It would be better if we were less dependent on foreigh oil, but foreign oil is cheap (it is not cheap to drill and transport from Alaska) and we can not fully develop everything we have. Even if we by some miracle did become independent, our allies would not, and our economy, for good or ill, is becoming dependent on foreign trade. Retreating from the middle east before solving these problems would be a disaster. Solve the oil supply problem, and I am all for getting out of there. But, before getting out, you must absolutely solve the problems which caused us to get involved in the region in the first place. And as far as our support for Israel being the root of the problem, read some of what Bin Ladin has said. Eliminating US influence is higher on his list of priorities than eliminating Israel. In other words, he views us as a bigger problem than the jews. And it is not only the American presence in the middle east he hates, it is our culture. So are we going to have to change our culture to please every nut in the middle east?
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 8:21:25 PM EDT
Your title is wrong! It should read: Want to stop terrorism? KILL THE TERRORISTS
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 8:39:32 PM EDT
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE LIKE PROTESTING ANYTHING THE USofA DOES??? In Vietnam, a bunch of people called the vets baby-killers and murderers. Now you people say that we caused this God-awful attack. If there's anything that makes me mad, it's a bunch of protesters thinking they know what they're talking about. Y'all need a friggin brain adjustment. I guess it's anything to cause trouble, but you know how that is. The reason the USofA intervenes is because we're trying to keep violence between countries to a minimum. Ok, I'm a firefighter. Now if you want to sit there and tell me that I killed 267 of my brethren, I'm gonna beat you and then we'll find out how much you like to protest. The US is not responsible, it's people who enjoy starting arguments when they know they're gonna lose who are responsible. The media blows things all to hell and a hand-basket, so the whole friggin government is blamed. Get a freakin life, quit protestin, and start supporting, or you can get the hell out of the great USofA. That's all I have to say about that.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 9:43:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Because, for the most part, the isolationist point of view is based on racist anti-Semitism.
View Quote
Ok, that is just WRONG!!! How in the world is minding our on business racist anti-Semitism? How can I be an anti semite when I support the Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership? Apparently We can't have a civilized discussion. We try to reason and discuss our foreign policy, but instead we get called morons, racists, naive nuts, etc, and some(AR4Mikie) want to beat the crap out of us and kick us out of OUR OWN country for believing differently then they do, for believing something other than the liberal media tells, for believing the EXACT same way our Founding Fathers did. Does that remind you of any body(hint: THE FREAKING LIBERALS, especially when talking about guns)? Wake up people and use your brains!
Top Top