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Posted: 9/14/2001 7:15:45 PM EDT
[url]http://www.jannah.org/resources/25quest.html#14[/url] Since there is so much discussion going on, concerning the terrorist attacks recently, I searched for a site that members might be interested in. I was curious, on trying to find out, where in the Quran is the justification for killing Americans written. Closest I came to was the "Jihad".
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:30:42 PM EDT
Uhm...those radicals & fanatics have killed more than just Americans....Jews, other Arabs, other Muslims...they are not true Muslims & no where in the Quran does it say to slaughter Americans. But those bastards have finally gotten us on American soil in a manner that we will never forget. I hope that our retaliation will be just as memorable to those terrorist scumbags & the POSs that grant them safe haven. They ain't safe for much longer.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:38:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:43:44 PM EDT
mohammed himself had all of the Jews in Medina slaughtered! Mohammed- "strike the head of the unbeliever wherever you find them" sopmod
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:48:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: mohammed himself had all of the Jews in Medina slaughtered! Mohammed- "strike the head of the unbeliever wherever you find them" sopmod
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Unlike those civilized, santized Christian Crusades....they never hurt a butterfly. Just how far back do you plan on going with this?
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:54:36 PM EDT
That was my point, it appears that "Osama" has twisted the term "Jihad" (as have many radicals) to specifically target American's, I guess mainly because of our presence in the Middle East. The "Bible" has been used in similar fashions throughout history as "The End Justifies the Means". I just glanced through the site real quick. Was going to try and find about the "Suicide" part. It looks like you can interpret the "Quran" anyway you want, even though, it may not be the actual true teachings, and then gather in "Followers" that think like you?? For information purposes, I'm Catholic. Please no Catholic / Protestant jokes. Ha..... By the way, for the ones bent on using Nuclear Weapons that option may be hinted at but unless attacked by countries using them against us, it's very unlikely that will ever take place. I have an SNEC in Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Warfare Defense from when I was in the Military. Let's just say that the "Fallout" would be the problem. We will just have to stick with the "Cluster Bombs" and "Cruise Missiles".
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:57:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2001 7:58:18 PM EDT by sopmodm4]
Originally Posted By Matrix:
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: mohammed himself had all of the Jews in Medina slaughtered! Mohammed- "strike the head of the unbeliever wherever you find them"
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Unlike those civilized, santized Christian Crusades....they never hurt a butterfly. Just how far back do you plan on going with this?
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The Crusades started because of the murders of Christian pilgrims and the sacking of Haggia Sophia!
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 8:24:07 PM EDT
I thought you were making the point of how "barbaric" Prophet Mohammed was. I was commenting that most "(holy) wars" are barbaric...the Crusades were not a picnic. I did not intend to get into a debate of why the crusades began.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 8:36:20 PM EDT
The Character of Muhammed 1. Muhammed felt he was possesed, others who personally knew him felt the same. 2. "Muhammed's foster mother, Halima, stated her conviction that 'in answer to a direct question from his mother I admitted that I thought that he was possesses by a devil'". 3. "The people of Mecca spoke openly and tauntingly of it (the koran) as a collection of antiquated or fabulous legends, or as palapable sorcery(Sura 36, 25, 17) 4. "It seems, however, that Muhammed himself was at first doubtful of the source of these revelations, fearing that he was possessed by one of the Jinn" 5. Who were Muhammad's first supposed converts? Genies! Yes, Muhammad supposedly preached to and converted genies in Suras 46:29-35; 72:1- 6. Muhammed decided to make up his own religion and started with a pagan moon god named allah. That is why you see the cresent moon in Islam. 7.But perhaps Muslims have forgotten that it was "Allah" who was originally the pagan god. Scolars agree that before Muhammed, "Allah" was one of the pagan dieties of the pre-Islamic Arabic pantheon of gods-and not even the central diety." 8.The name of Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form 'Allat', are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa. 9.In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. One of the moon god's name was called Allah. (Alfred Guilluame, Islam, p. 7.) 10. Allah, the moon god was married to the sun goddess. Together they produce the three goddess (the daughters of Allah), Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. All of these 'gods' were viewed as being the top of the pantheon of Arab deities. (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I.61). 11.Mohammed did not write the Koran or see it completed before his death. Abu Bakr asked people who memorized it to write down their memories about it. There were seven readings of the Koran until the year 30. He collected the other Koran's and burned them, keeping his version." Ali Dashti, Muslim Scholar The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam (a standard islamic work) [7] [2] Islamic Invasion, p. 108 [3] ibid [4] ibid [5] ibid [6] ibid, pp. 108-109 [7] ibid, p. 109 *Source:Muhammad, the Quran, & the Hadith Used by permission. Matrix,just in case you didn't know;) sopmod
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 8:43:58 PM EDT
I'm sure there are similar books regarding other religious figures from various religions. Try this site instead...if you are really interested in learning more...but from your posts I somehow doubt it. http://www.jannah.org/resources/
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 8:48:36 PM EDT
1.Muhammed was a wife beater. "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God hath gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God hath of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" 2.Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife". In the Islamic publication, "Women in Islam", published by the Islamic Publications in Lahore Pakistan it also states the reasons and justification for Islamic wife beating 3."The family life should be harmonious. If anything goes wrong and there is any misunderstanding four steps are to be taken to deal with such a situation: 1) verbal advice and admonitions, 2) then the family relation is to be suspended, 3) after that physical correction may be administered and the fourth is a family council to settle the differences if there is any." On page 36, the book further elaborates: "If she still resists, then he is to administer physical correction. He is to scourge her. When he flogs her, he should remember that he is beating his own wife. He should not beat her when he is angry; whatever the cause of his anger could be. The flogging must never draw blood or break bones though. 4.In the Islamic publication "You Ask and Islam Answers", page 94, Abdul Mushtahiri says, "If admonishing and sexual desertion fail to bring forth results and the woman is of a cold and stubborn type, the Quran bestows on man the right to straighten her out by way of punishment and beating provided he does not break her bones nor shed blood. Many a wife belongs to this querulous type and requires this sort of punishment to bring her to her senses." 5.The Hadith: The majority of people in hell are women (vol. 1, nos. 28, 301; vol. 2, no. 161) 6.Muhammad stole his son's wife. Muhammad wanted his son's wife and when his son didn't want to give her up, Muhammad had a "convenient revelation" from heaven which said a father can take his adopted son's wife. Read Sura 33:36-38: 7...When Zaid had accomplished what he would of her, then we gave her in marriage to you, so that there should not be any fault in the believers, touching the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished what they would of them; and Allah's commandment must be performed. There is no fault in the prophet, touch what Allah had ordained for him. This passage has led many Muslims to renounce Islam. Source:Muhammad, the Quran, & the Hadith Used by permission. 8.Muslims are try to say that Muhammad was sinless, but Muhammad admitted that he is a sinner. "Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Hadith vol. 1, no. 711 9.In Sura 18:10, Allah tells Muhammad: Say, I am but a man like yourself. Sura 6:51, 70; 10:3. Mohammed was indeed a child molester.He married and took to bed Aesha, a 9 year old girl! great religion you got there,Matrix! sopmod
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 8:53:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:02:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: The Crusades started because of the murders of Christian pilgrims and the sacking of Haggia Sophia!
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Huh? The Hagia Sophia (in Anatolia, not the Holy Land) was sacked by the [b]Crusaders[/b] during the [b]Fourth[/b] Crusade in 1204. (See [url]http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/sack.stm[/url] ) Muslims didn't gain control over the Hagia Sophia until the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:02:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matrix: I'm sure there are similar books regarding other religious figures from various religions. Try this site instead...if you are really interested in learning more...but from your posts I somehow doubt it. http://www.jannah.org/resources/
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No,I have indeed been to the "sterilised" version of Islam presented there and still managed to find enough of this stuff to make me puke.I went to school with prince Al Ar-Faj of the Saudi Royal family and could not reconcile what I saw Muslims doing vs my good friend "Faj".So I researched it.When I brought this crap to his attentiuon he was amazed,he (like most Muslims)was completely unaware of the tenets of his own religion having only a ritual familiarity with the Koran and not really studying the Suras and Haddith.I however being a Jew upon reading of Mohammeds execution of 800 unarmed Jews in Medina took it upon myself to research the subject in depth.I have read several versions of the Koran and have read commentaries both by Islamic and secular scholars.I have even enjoyed Islamic books like "the Prophet" and enjoyed them until my perspective was changed by really figuring out what the base tenets of the faith are.I am glad that I live in "Dar el-Harb " rather than "Dar el-Islam" so that I don't have to suffer Haidabiya at the hands of your co-religionists.I am just a filthy Dhimmi,why do you care what I think, you caudda? sopmodm4
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:04:29 PM EDT
Sop: Thanks. Brouhaha: If I got pissed every time I met someone who didn't believe as I do...I'd be pissed all the time. I've provided a link for him to go to if he chooses to learn more. I had not intended to defend my religion. I certainly do not need to do so to Sop. It is obvious to me what his intentions are. I had been defending my rights & civil liberties but obviously he has another agenda besides the Constitution & Bill of Rights. SOP: no has asked you to convert, so I really don't understand your attack on the "character of Mohammed"...you don't like Islam or Arabs...I get it. So what. btw, my wife is Christian.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:06:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed:
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: The Crusades started because of the murders of Christian pilgrims and the sacking of Haggia Sophia!
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Huh? The Hagia Sophia (in Anatolia, not the Holy Land) was sacked by the [b]Crusaders[/b] during the [b]Fourth[/b] Crusade in 1204. (See [url]http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/sack.stm[/url] ) Muslims didn't gain control over the Hagia Sophia until the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453.
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True I guess the crusades did start hundreds of years earlier but Constantinople was under Moslem(and Barbarian,Roman,etc.,etc) attack continuously for centuries.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:11:15 PM EDT
lol! What makes you think I remotely care what you think of my religious beliefs? I had been debating freedom, not religion. You wish to pervert that with name calling & your perception of superior religious beliefs. Great....ego away. The Jew/Arab/Christian thing will never end. Its why we had attacks like today. Holy Wars forever it seems. I was willing to discuss freedom & liberty with anyone here but really don't care to explain why I am Muslim...or Jew...or Christian...or Buddhist.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:11:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:16:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Matrix: It is obvious to me what his intentions are.
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I can see that now. Hopefully you realize that not all of us are so close-minded towards other religions. You believe things that seem strange to me, just as I believe things that seem strange to you. We can all believe what we want. I don't think ANYBODY has the right to go around bashing others for their beliefs.
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Live & Let Live. Now why is that so hard for others to understand?
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:18:17 PM EDT
Hmmm...I see you are at it again Sopmodm4.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:20:09 PM EDT
Sopmodm4, Thanks for the due diligence. Your pursuit in revealing the the underlying causes of this current situation is appreciated by me. My stepson and daughter are Christian and of Lebanese-Egyptian ancestry. Jim
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:22:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sopmodm4:
Originally Posted By Renamed:
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: The Crusades started because of the murders of Christian pilgrims and the sacking of Haggia Sophia!
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Huh? The Hagia Sophia (in Anatolia, not the Holy Land) was sacked by the [b]Crusaders[/b] during the [b]Fourth[/b] Crusade in 1204. (See [url]http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/sack.stm[/url] ) Muslims didn't gain control over the Hagia Sophia until the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453.
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True I guess the crusades did start hundreds of years earlier but Constantinople was under Moslem(and Barbarian,Roman,etc.,etc) attack continuously for centuries.
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The Romans never attacked Constantinople -- they founded it!
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:42:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By omar: Sopmodm4, Thanks for the due diligence. Your pursuit in revealing the the underlying causes of this current situation is appreciated by me. My stepson and daughter are Christian and of Lebanese-Egyptian ancestry. Jim
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I am glad that you live and can have life without Hadibiya.I have wept for the plight of the Lebanese Christians at the hands of the Syrians and Palestinians since the 1970s.The kidnapping and rape of any young Christian girl in "Dar el-Islam" is a horrible thought to a man like me who has a young daughter.I am happy that children are here and not there. sopmodm4
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 9:59:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Norad1: Hmmm...I see you are at it again Sopmodm4.
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HEAT! good to hear from you Norad1.You are the "operator of choice" for this shit that happened with the Muslims.How is your program evolving as of our last conversation? sopmodm4 BTW Renmed,I am a Jew when I say Roman I am almost alwats talking about the Roman Catholic Church which held Byzantium hostage,exacted tribute and took their royalty as literal hostages from 1071-1081.They sank Byzantine ships and pirated their cargoes as well as placing occupation forces in Byzantium until the reign of Alexius I and the first success of the crusades brought other Catholics that were not part of Italy's bigotry against the Greeks in Byzantium.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 11:33:54 PM EDT
Sopmod, You have mail. Check it, and see if I am able to get out to you. Having some problems with it earlier tonight. Some of these guys just don't get it do they? I think it will have to get wet for them to see the light. Well, enough said. I am going back to my nightly shopping.
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