TV news is way too sanitized.

America should see the havoc wreaked on this country.

When the occupants of the buildings run DOWN the stairs to escape,
Brave Firefighters run UP the stairs to effect rescues!  How many of these fine young men made it out after the collapse???


(added another 120 pictures -- many are from nj mutual aid firefighters on scene)

[url]www.SIGTalk.com/wtc[/url]


[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/capt.1000280774world_trade_attacks_nyr105[/img]



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Note the people above the fire floors:

[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/imdf11092001193049a.jpg[/img]

[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/dest.3[/img]





[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/capt.1000252658terrorist_attacks_ny189[/img]



[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/capt.1000253466trade_center_attacks_srb103[/img]



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[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/capt.1000259395terrorist_attacks_nyr167[/img]


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[img]www.sigtalk.com/wtc/capt.1000248486terrorist_attacks_ny188[/img]

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My heart goes out to the families of the firefighters and cops who died while trying to help others. Brave men, all of them.

The rescue crews face a terrible task of recoverying bodies now, a job I wouldn't wish on anyone. A big thanks to all involved in the effort.

Latest update (as of 7am 09-14-2001) is that 388 NY Firefighters are missing and presumed dead.

That is up from the initial estimate of 200.

I do not know how many police officers have suffered the same plight.  

There are family members of building occupants on the news with photos of their missing family members.  
They are pleading for some news about their loved ones..


This is just so sad.....   [:(]

Unfu*king real, my heart hurts for all those families who suffered loss, all the injured, both those injured physically and emotionally.

God Bless them all.....

Truly horrific.

Still can't believe it happened.

Those heroes made a terrific impression on every single man and woman seeing them at work.
The souls of those who did not return home will remain with us, and it is for those brave men too that the culprits must be hunted with all possible means.

Thankfully, the loss of lives of Police Officers was much much lower.  I think that about 15 NYPD officers died, alomost all of which belonged to Emergency Service Unit Truck One, these are the guys who go in alongside the firefighters.

Port Authority Police lost 45-50 officers, beleive it or not one who survived was on the 80th (yes eightieth!!!!) floor when the building collapsed.  It is truly a miracle that this guy made it.

388 firemen....Think about that number.  I doubt that FDNY has lost that many men in the history of the FDNY.  Almost 400 men gone.  I remember when 3 FDNY Firemen died in my precinct a couple of months ago, that was alomost too much to bear.  The loss of 3 hero's lives was unbearable, and now this........


God Bless them all, each and every last one of them, both firemen and cop.  Theres the difference between cops and firemen.  I personally would not be able to do what these guys do, and I know that.  I dont think that I could ever put myself into the physical danger that these guys do every time they get called.
(I HAVE, and would definitely have to think twice about going into a burning building again).  But these guys do it every day, its what the live for.


God Bless All of Them, and hopefully in tomorrow we can find ONE MORE FIREMAN....I keep telling myself JUST ONE MORE......that will be enough.

Enough babbling, I havent slept more than 8 hours total in 4 nights.......I cant get to sleep, just keep thinking about the things Ive seen this week.  

Need to see this. The Innocent Victims
[url]http://www.loveposts.com/[/url]

Have the photos on this website been turned over to the authorities?  I'm sure some of them (especially the ones taken in the stairwell) would be helpful in locating lost relatives/friends.

There all heros![beer]

God, those photo's showing the firemen going up while everyone is running out are chilling.

Such bravery and by so many.  

Unreal but I will NEVER forget their sacrifice, for the rest of my life.

If there are any NYFD folk here, can you please drop me an e-mail?  

I have some photos that I would like to get into the hands of someone who can review them for distribution to the families of the fallen firefighters.

Thanks!

[img]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesC/eagle.jpg[/img]

nothin but respect for these folks, they put themselves right in the middle of the shit, with no regard for themselves.  true heros.

13thMonkey

Unreal. Simply unreal.

These photos need to be shown every single week during the next five years, as we pursue, engage and exterminate the people who did this.

No half measures. No moral victories. Only COMPLETE victory.

They were only doing what they were PAID to do.

They are NOT heroes!! Again...they were PAID to do that they did!

The real HEROES were the ones who PUT DOWN THE PLANE that was indended to strike elsewhere...

And, if you have a problem with this statement, then you are out of touch with reality...

And if you have a problem with this...GFY!!!

What can I say...You are a total F***ing IDIOT! YES the people who stopped the forth plane from hitting it's intended target were heroes...there is no doubt about that. There is also NO DOUBT that the firefighters and Police Officers who were at ground zero were/are Heroes too. Just because someone is being paid to do something does not mean that they cannot be considered a hero! To use your logic would mean that no one in the military has ever been a hero. After all...they were being paid to be a soldier. Those men could have said "hey screw this...I could get hurt"...but they didn't. They knew the risks and accepted them in order to help others. They put themselves in harms way to save people. They put concern for their own lives, their own families, all their hopes and dreams aside in order to save lives...that makes them HEROES in my book. God Bless them and their families. As for you "contras21" you are a POS who does not deserve to even speak of such men.

[b][size=5]Contras,you are a disgrace to the human race.[/size=5][/b]
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Aggie1%2F091601branch%2Ejpg[/img]

Yes in a warped way you are right they aren't hereos because they were paid to do a job. They were hereos the day they accepted their jobs. They knew that by being fire fighters or police officers they were in essence "writing a check". That check was to be deposited. The check could be cashed at any time. They could never know when, where, why, how, or by who. Cashing that check entails putting their life on the line, or working in a situation unbearable to most people. Most officers and fire fighters may not admit it but they will cash that check several times over in their careers.  

If you think that they do what they do for money you are sadly mistaken. They do what they do because of honor, duty, commitment, loyalty, brotherhood, and a chance to do something for others.

What do you do to make your community better??
What have you ever done that is heroic??

*I* have a problem with you.  You know what?
YOU can GFY.  

Consider your account banned.

Hopefully you will need the assistance of a rescue worker someday.  (someday SOON!)

HA HA HA HA!!!  contras21, you're a douche!   [-!-!-]

God bless America, it's firemen, policemen, the ems service and everyone who pitched in no matter who you are! Here's to all of you, and THANKS!     [beer]

RBAD, don't ban CONTRAS21 yet! I want to hear what that Sh**head has to say now. Instead of banning him can you just change his name to POS21 or something?

Greetings...I had to reply to several of the comments made reference emergency response personnel and their activities at the WTC and Pentagon.

Background:  I am a former firefighter, fire chief, and instructor with over 20 years experience in municipal, industrial and maritime emergency response fields.  I work for the largest fire, rescue, hazmat, and WMD training organization in the world.  We operate a $120million facility that has been called the "Disneyland of fire and rescue."  We recently completed a full size "Disaster City" which has rubble piles, and numerous collapsed structures for emer personnel to train on.  Our programs will reach over 50,000 personnel, from all 50 states and 40 foreign countries this year.

First:  yes...the fire and law enforcement personnel are heroes.....as they say...most people exit a burning building while the troops enter to conduct search & rescue, suppression, etc.  And yes..the personnel were doing the job they are paid to do.    

Second:  personnel both at the tactical & strategic level are taught three priorties
1> life safety / response personnel first / civilians-public second.
2>incident stabilization / suppression / rescue / etc.
3>property consevation / salvage / mitigation / etc.

These priorities work for any response...a  vehicle, or high rise fire, rescue, hazmat,etc.  

You take care of your response personnel first....we kill over 100 firefighters per year....many are killed operating in a burning structure when it collapses.  And personnel are trained on secondary devices....troops on scene, operating and staged....bad guys trips secondary device and you take out responders.
If we take out responders.....this further disrupts the response system.

So the Incident Commander, doing his sizeup, could have decided...per life safety... it is unsafe to expose personnel to risk in WTC.  No one enters buildings or operates in potential collapse zone.  Then operated in defensive mode.

I have made this call before at large fires, with limited resources.... you set up operations and surround and drown fire, etc.  You have written off civilians inside structure, since it was unsafe to operate inside and you had limited resouces.

NYFD and law enforcement...made the correct call....they were operating in an agressive interior attack/mode.  NYFD has an outstanding high rise operations plan...they do it every day.  And yes, you would not have been able to keep personnel out of the WTC....life safety..both theirs and the civilians were their top priority.  

As you are seeing...there are hundreds of heroes....response personnel, civilians who assisted, the passengers who took the aircraft out in PA....and all who made the ultimate sacrifice.

In our business it takes a team....we train responders and their leadership how to make this happen.  Tie all entities together...fire, ems, law, public works, and the civilians.  There are even programs that deal with civilian volunteers and donations management.

You will see more incidents and more unified command/management in place between fire, ems, public works, law enforcement, civilians, etc.

And all our personnel, be they paid or volunteer, and the civilians who support them are heroes.  This ranges from a large paid dept such as New York City...to a small west Texas volunteer dept, that hustles donation to purchase equipment and diesel fuel for its apparatus.  The team of personnel and civilians makes it work....that is one item that makes America great.

Texas Task Force 1...our FEMA urban search & rescue team is currently working at WTC.  Its 90 members come from over 40 organizations, both paid, volunteer and civilian.  As we say in Texas....neighbor helping neighbor.

Be Safe.....TexasAg  

Contras21, like the other guys said, you are beyond a total POS.  Do you think those guys do what they do for the money??  Do you think that Firemen and Cops in NYC are in it for the money?  I wont even embarrass myself by telling you what we make.  Both the Firemen and the Cops have both been working without a contract for over 1 1/2 years.  That POS Guiliani has basically offered us 2% and 3% over 2 years.  Even 20% wouldnt even make our jobs comparable to neighboring counties/cities.  We are so far behind that we would need a 50% raise just to bring us to parity with the LOWEST PAID
neighboring departments of Newark, NJ.  It is NOT part of our job to die.  There isnt enough money in the world for that, let alone for what we get paid.

We help and rescue and do what we can for people, but we're not paid to die you assh@le.
Its something inside of us, something we just automatically do when the shit hits the fan.
Thats just what cops and firemen do when the time arises.  

When people in a crowded club are killing themselves to get out because of somone with a gun or a fire, we are fighting the exodus of people to get in and get the bad guy.  We dont know what he looks like, we dont even know if its a real gun.  We are blindly running into a situation where we dont even know who or what the hell it is were looking for, we'll know it when we find it.  When we find it, we just hope he's out of bullets or looking the other way or somethings.  If not then we just pray that we are a better shot.

Kinda tough when you dont even know who youre looking for.  Think about it, he hears the sirens coming, he sees the guys with the uniforms looking for him, but he sees us way before we see him.  That puts us at a serious disadvantage.  Then when we make a mistake in that split second, they want to put us in jail.
Firemen do the same thing, different situation.

What would be a good salary for cops or firemen?  What price could you put on your safety, your freedom, maybe even your life?  I dont think that there is enough money to pay us for what we do.  And we do it for an embarrassing paycheck.....embarrassing by anyones standards.


Thank You RBAD for banning this jerkoff.  He is not worthy of being a member of this fine board..make that fine family.  Thank Everyone for their kind words and their support, it has helped to keep everyone going these past few days.  God Bless all the HEROS who laid down their life on September 11, 2001, and all the HEROS that laid down their life before that day, and all the HEROS who will lay down their lives in the future, and unfortunately there will be many, many more.....knowing this, we still go to work every day....

Thank you very much for your words of support at a time of National Emergency.  It's nice to know that we can count on you to have our backs no matter what the situation is.[-!-]

As Hunduh already stated, we are horribly paid, but no matter how samll the monetary compensation is we still go back there day in and day out to save the lives of people that we don't even know....even thankless assholes like Contras21.

I'm proud to be one of NY's Finest and don't  you forget it!

Ray --  Please don't listen to that clown.

EVERYONE here (and all throughout America) has tremendous respect and admiration for the bravery and heroism that is displayed by the emergency services of NY !

Thank you for all that you do !

And.. don't worry about the whole "pay thing".  Once McUZI is done hacking into and destroying all of the terrorist web sites, we'll get him to figure out how to triple all of the NYPD salaries in the payroll system!    [:D]

I just want to say that Ive had a change of heart about banning Contras21.  Should we really do that?  After thinking about it, I realized that he was just voicing his opinion, you know that thing called freedom of speech?  Kinda like the other little thing we all cherish as our right to bear arms?

Remember, opinions are like assh@les, everybody has one.  Contras21 has shown his true colors, and lets not forget that.  Actually this kinda serves MY purpose to show all you others reading this about how we are treated by the public.  MOST of the people we deal with show some kind of hostility towards cops, their reaction when we show up kinda sets the pace of how the job is going to go, smoothly or the hard way.  I kinda prefer the smoothly way....guess Im getting old and wise....

What does everyone else think about banning Contras21 after this post?


AND ONE LAST THING FOR WAVERUNNER, where did that crazy picture come from and what the hell is going on there????(I see the Charlies Angels theme)

I say phUCK CONTRAS21 let the dumbass go down to the local pub and spout off his stupid mouth and see how quick someone swells it shut for him! I'd love to do it!
Hey maybe Contras21 is that ASSWIPE, Shitbrain BILL MAHER from Politically Incorrect? He's just as stupid!

I've always said sports stars are not heroes. Policemen, Firemen, EMT's and especially Military members are our nations constant HEROES. That put there life on the line to protect others and our way of life! There little paychecks don't come close to thanking them for what they do!

I say "THANK YOU" for all you do for our great nation!

STAND PROUD!

COZ

For the first time since graduation day (not THAT long ago), I am doing just that; Standing Proud.  It really feels good to be appreciated for a change.  Makes me feel warm and fuzzy....

Thanks everyone for the emotional support....

Why doesnt everyone take a minute to drop Ronin an email.  When he finally gets out of the hole, Im sure he would be happy to see a few emails from his friends at AR15.com....

Me and my two younger brothers were just playing around in front of the camera...that pic was taken just before the Chrlie's Angels movie came out!

When all this blows over and things are back to "normal" in Manhattan South, I'll work on getting a picture of me in front of the 5th Pct.'s new 2002 Ford Explorer (like I'll ever drive it) and my AR-15...that should get me jammed up with the Lieutenants!!!!

Hey Wave,  I understand your Senator was at ground zero all week helping out.  Did you get escort her highness?

Nice job she did for her constituents last night at the President's speech.  

Pass the word, she isn't really a friend of NY

Didn't see the bitch once. You know how the saying goes..."With friends like that....."

Hey Wave, I had no idea that was actually you and your brothers in the pic.  That picture is seriously funny though!!!!Know what would be funnier???? A copy of the pic finding its way to the stalls of the 5th precinct shitter!!!  HAHAHAHA,  just kidding, I would never do that, but you have to admit it would be funny!!!

We have a 2002 Explorer too.  Funny it has a CD player, but no 4WD.  Just like the NYPD though.  We have a cherokee w/o 4WD as well.  The patrol guide (rulebook) states that all precincts that border water must have a 4WD vehicle.  Now we have 2 minus the 4WD part....
Anyways, it Lt.'s and Captains only in the Explorer, "NOT TO BE USED BY PATROL!!!!" in bold letters everywhere...hehehehe

I also tried to call you a few times today but I kept getting some annoying AT&T message.  Ill try again tomorrow.  We have to talk about a coupla things including an idea that I had about another post.  Its 8:30 pm and I just got home from work a few mins ago.  I started at 0400 this morning.  Man, these 16? hour tours on a fixed post (read: On your feet in full view of the public, no meal reliefs) are getting old real quick.  Man what I would do for a standard 8 hour tour!!!!

And TIMJ, you just made my day!!!!  Thanks for the support and thanks to everyone who called me today to talk....OLYCAR15 (from Netherlands?), BeeKeeper, and the others which I forgot because my brain has shut down due to lack of sleep....

My friends , I have just returned from the NYC Medical Examiners Office ( Morgue ). We were assigned to assist with the influx of bodies from this disaster.

I am writing this  note to you all because I know how patriotic and dedicated to our country you are .

I am now as I was during my tour trembling and fighting back tears of anguish and anger.

What I saw today was the devils work , truer evil does not exist but in the heart of this monster.

He has MASSACERED OUR PEOPLE !! There is almost nothing recognizable as human . THOSE BASTARDS !!!

They have butchered our innocents , our people our friends , our loved ones !!!

The worst was when they brought in some of our heroic firefighters from the FDNY.

They brought them in with an NYPD motorcycle Honor Guard and with the bodies in a FDNY ambulance . When we took them out THE WHOLE BLOCK stopped and members from the detail , NYPD , NYCD, NYSP , SCSO , FBI , PAPD were all called to attention ( about 100 of us )and rendered a spectacular salute as the body was removed from the ambulance , the body drapped in a beautiful flag of our country was gently carried to a ME station .

I will never as long as I live forget as some of the firefighters from Rescue 3 asked to carry him in saying simply " this is our guy "
They were red eyed and haggered but they carried him with so much dignity.They laid him down so gently I just can't get it out of my mind .

Please don't ever forget what has happened here , please pray for our heroes and help your family and friends have patience and resolve until we have avenged this terrible loss.

God Bless America

Read what ColtM4 has written and remember his words.  When he says that bodies are not recognizable, he is not exaggerating.  110 floors that were 15 feet high each (approx), compacted down to 6 inches between floors.  Add a 2000 degree F fire to that burning for 10 days and what do you have left......not much.

I will never forget the Firemen and Police Officers and EMS workers that died that day.  The loss of those men (Heros) was a tragedy inside of a still bigger tragedy.  Im at a loss for words right now, as I am every time I start to think of those great men.

The only comfort that I have is that I know that somewhere, up there, they are still together, and they will always be there for each other, even in death.  I really feel bad for their families, their wives and children, mothers and fathers.  Those are the ones that I fell will suffer the most.  The guys who have left us are sitting around somewhere telling each other war storiesb and yukkin it up....

I hope that everyone that is a family member or friend of the deceased/missing realizes that no matter how much we joke around on this board, we just do it to mask our true sorrow.  ALL of the NYFD are my hero's!!!

although i am a new member to the forum i feel i need to vent. I am a police officer in a suburb of NYC and had the destinct privelage to help my fellow officers in the aftermath of the WTC disaster. I agree that civil servant get paid to do what they do and most dont get paid enough!! People who do these jobs do them for different reason I like to thing that most of us including myself do this because we want to help people!! However no where in my job description did is say anything about terrorism and running ito a build that is going to colapse.
I guess you have to be a member of service to actually fatham the impact of the loss of a fellow officer/firefighter. I had a friend who paid the ultimate price on 9-11-01 he was NYFD.  I am taking this incident very personal. I have no respect for these cowards or people who are in protest of our flag. We have had groups protest the display of old glory and my words to them are u want it down u take it down but u will have to pry it from my dead hands! enough rambling...the men and women who are at ground zero are heros to they are ordinary people called on to do an extrodinary job if u believe otherwise u are free to come and sign up and show us how its done I here they are hiring!

Now Thats What Im Talking About.....

Thanks for putting a picture to my thoughts Striker......that idea in my head is whats keeping me sane right now

I still don't have a grip on all this even yet. It still seems to be some sort of nightmare or out of a Stephen King movie or something. God bless all the Heros and innocent victoms and their families.

When good people see a great injustice, they demand corrective action.

Cowards will always try to discredit the actions of heros as being either self-serving or the act of a fool.  For a coward cannot stand the fact that they will never be able to stare at death, and act for the benefit of another.

contras21 is simply a coward who cannot comprehend that someone would willingly sacrifice themself for the sake of another.

May we never forget such sacrifice.

May God bless the Firemen who have left us, and may God bless those firefighters from New Brunswick (and everyone anywhere that donated, for that matter).  Since those Firefighters, and the Cops and EMS workers gave their life to save others, it is our responsibility to do whatever we can to provide for their surviving families, since they are no longer able to do so.

I think that the greatest justice we could do for them, something that would make them look down at us and smile, would be to take care of their families that they left behind that day.  That is what would comfort them the most, in my opinion.  We owe them that much.

                 Steven

I haven't seen much in the way of visual footage of the WTC tragedy. My TV has lousy reception and I don't have cable. I knew it was bad, but those images are hard to take. It looks like NY was nuked, something right out of Planet of the Apes(the original). I was still up listening to AM radio when they broke the news minutes after the first plane collided. I was hoping it was some kind of freak accident but something like 10 minutes later the second plane hit, and I like anybody else who was tuned in at the moment got that sick sinking feeling and realized this was no accident. I tried to steel myself to the fact there would probably be more plane attacks and was hopeing(in vain, but your mind can't adjust quick enough to this kind of news) the lives that would be lost would somehow be minimal, but what is minimal? I wasn't prepared for the buildings to collaspe, I figured since they survived th intial attack they would hold, but they didn't, I knew the collateral damage was going to be immense. Words over the radio don't compare to atually seeing with your own eyes.
They will be avenged!

Heroes?

If I was one of the people hanging out the windows above the fire floors, I wouldn't expect the other untrained people around me to be trained rescuers.

If I was hanging on for dear life watching the fire spread closer, I would be relieved to see the shiny fire engines show up.  I'd be thankful to see the firefighters and cops running the opposite direction as everyone else:  towards danger instead of away from it.

If I was bloody and torn and burnt from the fire/explosion, or maybe trapped under rubble  and I saw a fireman or cop running toward me, I'd be thinking I SURE AM GLAD TO SEE YOU.  

They sure would be my heroes that day.

Edmund