We back Israel in holy war. They oppress Islams with our money. Islams attack us.

DUH! NO MORE GOVERNMENT MONEY TO ANY COUNTRY. ESPECIALLY THOSE GOVERNMENTS ENGAGED IN ANY RELIGIOUS PURSUIT OF ANY KIND!

THERE IS NO GOD.

AND IF THERE IS LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SAY WHAT A SCREAMING PRICK HE\SHE\IT IS!

(Edited for spelling)

The Muslims hate us because they see us as the biggest threat to Islam being spread worldwide.  The rise of the European/Western/Christian world coincided with a decline of the rapid growth of Islam.  Yes, Islam is a major religion in the millions.  However, it will not penetrate the West while we are a superpower.  We are seen as the Great Satan!  We are the leader of the free world (aka not fundamentalist Islam).  Partnership with Israel does not help, but it is not the reason.

As for your God comment, I'll pray for you.

As will I.

God Bless Texas

Hmmmm.....  

People would take you more seriously if you would make use of the spell check feature !

Gunplay, you can run but you can't hide.
Blaming Israel is like blaming the rape victim.  This is NOT a Holy war, this is a war of good & evil, of freedom vs. a religious DICTATORSHIP in the mid-east.  Freedom, technology and education are the enemies of the Mid-East Arab leaders, and they use religion as the tool to fight their battles. The existance of Israel [as a free state] has rocked the foundations of their complete rule over their mostly un-educated people.
Israel is a free country that holds elections.  That is the ONLY criteria you need to be their ally. If you don't defend them and any other country that is free, than your freedom is in jeopardy.
If one member of the free world falls, then the evil empire prospers and grows stronger.  Eventually it will be at YOUR doorstep, and that 'eventually' ocurred on Tuesday, 9/11/01.
Your isolationist view of the world is great in theory but doesn't work in reality.   The unwillingness to 'get involved' cost millions in Europe to be slaughtered in WWII because we waited so long to 'get involved', another million in Eastern Europe because we waited too long in Bosnia, and now as many as 15,000 Americans in NY & Washington. You either get involved in the world's freedom or you and your children will leave in fear, terror, and possibly slavery if we lose.  These are very un-american ways of life and very real threats today...here and now.  
Lesson:  The longer you sit on the sidelines, the tougher it is to go in and win the game.

Yeah, what [b]royce[/b] said! [>]:)]

Just because your wrong doesn't mean you should be censored. Your right to post your feelings is guaranteed by birthright of being American.

That said, I dissagree with you.

Gunplay,

I am sure of two things in this world:

1. There IS a god.
2. I'm not him.

Everything else is kind of open for discussion I guess.

You can deny the existence of God for now but when you're dying someday,,, you will do everything in your power to get in his good graces then. I hope it happens earlier though cause your soul will always be incomplete till then. And the ironic part is that if you have never known God then you don't even know what you're missing now. You will someday though.

And as far as you wanting to tell him/her what a prick he/she is,,, you need to remember that we were given free will by God. That gives us the ability to argue, sin, fight, kill and so on. It also gives us the ability to love, help, support and such. We each have the ability to choose our own path. Even you were given this ability by God and that is why you can now express such hostility towards him. What you are doing though is similar to those who burn the flag in protest, when it is indeed what that flag stands for that gives them the right to protest. How ironic. I wish we could spend more time together so that I could help you to see the light and the beauty of God's design. I know that times like these make it tough though and that is what faith is for.

Hang in there and seek enlightenment. It will do you good.

Osama bin Laden doesn't give a crap about Israel. They are [b]WAY[/B] down on his priority list. First, he wants a pan-Islamic theocracy to replace all the secular governments in the middle east. He sees the US government standing in his way by supporting the government of his country of origin, Saudi Arabia, as well as Jordan and others, so we have become his enemy.

The CIA trained him and the rest of the mujhaddin to fight against the Soviets in the 80's, in the belief that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Obviously, in this case, there was no foresight or consideration of the realities of the nature of life in the middle east. The mujhaddin just did an about face after ousting the Soviet puppet, and attacked anything they didn't think was orthodox enough.

The US, as a republic respecting people's right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech, stands in sharp contradiction of bin Laden's desire for a strict Islamic state. We're a target for this asshole, and we'll have to get used to that fact until we remove his DNA, and that of his fellow travellers, from the earth.

Freedom isn't free
Semper Fidelis
Jarhead out.
[img]http://www.inetnow.net/~kudzukid/enlemblem.gif[/img]

Please, don't even try to understand God's ways. You don't know, this could be a way of punishing Isreal in the end. Or it could be God's way of punishing an Islam that is off-track. Or even punishment of the whole world. But be sure of one thing, God wants us to worship Him. After all, the first 3 Commandments tell us how we should deal with Him. Here's the First, just for a taste:

[i]"I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.[/i]

Yes, look around the world and you will see fools suffering even down through generations.
More..
Pray that you not be tested! Give God his due!

LOL!

You sure about that?  

Hope so, cause if not, "HE/SHE/IT" might have a special welcome waiting for you!

Now before everyone starts flaming away for my analysis of other peoples thinking let me just say that I as my father, grandfather and now son are all veterans and very proud Americans.
There are a few hundred million more Muslims than Christians. They hate us, like many others, because we are a free people who allow our government to commit atrocities all over the world or at least that is the way they see it. They believe that we are at fault for most of the suffering that takes place in this world and therefore as a Chritian/Judeo society they make the assumption that Christianity and Judaism is evil. Of course they have a particular hate for Jews who they have been fighting for years so there is no problem funneling some of that hate to others.
Many others who come here learn by watching us and seeing how politically ignorant we are. I work with many foreigners and they see that we are giving away our freedom and completely oblivious to what takes place in the world.
People who come from behind what used to be the Iron Curtain are particularly astute when it comes to seeing through the propaganda.
Sit back and think about what has happened. Why has it happened? Do we have the right suspects? People who wear turbans are not necessarily Arabs and may indeed be a people who at odds with the Muslim nation.
What is the course of action that will keep our loved ones here safe? We have enough young men who may risk their lives in a war to resolve this issue.
Now is the time for clear heads that understand and will call for war if that is the option but use other methods if appropriate.
I often think about what grandpa said, he was in the Fighting 69th during WWI; "Be careful. War is not what you think it is. It is a horrible thing."

I kind of prefer what Rush says,

"There is no such thing as war atrocities. War itself is an atrocity."

What a dick.

Anybody that says we brought this on or say we deserved this is fucking insane.  I wouldn't wish a sucker bunch like this on any of our enemies.  

Gunplay, you say there is no God. I believe you are wrong, but even more than that, for your sake, my sake, and for the sake of everyone else in the world, I sincerely HOPE you are wrong.

Religion is the poison that allows men to knowingly board a plane bound for doom. As far as the motivations of the higher-ups in the Talaban etc. I guess it is a possibility that it is not strictly religious, but I still feel it is their motivating factor.

As far as Israel (or any country for that matter) they should not get a dime of public funds, just as those in the welfare lines should get nothing. But if there are handouts, none should go to fund either side of the idiocy currently going on in the mid-east. If people want to get into a "my gods dick is bigger then your gods dick" firefight, fine, just say the hell out of my wallet.

I hate that something like this could happen, and it cheapens the finality of the deaths of those involved to say that it is part of "gods plan." They are dead and that is that, which is what is tragic. Hell if I thought there was a heaven, why would I give a rat’s ass that they died. They would all be going to a perfect place and the bastards flying the plane would be judged. Those of you who claim to believe should be happy that justice is going to be served and that it is not necessary to be sad at all. God has sorted everything out right? WRONG!

Oh and just to recap, there is no god.

(PS sorry for not spell checking my first post, just forgot to)

May I suggest that Gunplay you study what the only unforgiveable sin is because ole' buddy you are coming very close to it.

I pray that one day, God will touch your heart and you will see the beauty of having a personal relationship with HIM.  It's actually pretty awesome!

War cannot be avoided, only delayed to the advantages of others.

And you might want to take a second look at your God comment.

We shall see if i'm judged...

Good luck.

I' give myself 999,999 in a million odds.

Oh, and there is no god.

PS: does anyone know were I can get a decent shotgun mount, something for the closet that I can access but is unavailable to others.

gunplay:

There is a shotgun mount that you want,secure, quick disconnect to allow quick access. I am sure of it.

There is a GOD, and his name is  Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Further, you already have opened yourself to him.  "And if there is let me be the first to say . . ."   Just as there is a God who is good, there is also a devil, who is evil.  Even though you don't understand yet, you will.  May God be with you.  

I can see you have a SERIOUS problem grasping basic logic, therefore I will not try to explain why you are an idiot.

First, let me attempt to illustrate why some people think there is no God...  

[img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/MiscBrainy.gif[/img]

I can appreciate someone who has honest question/seeking type of doubt...but as for someone acting like a child in denial of the truth and knowingly making statements that will be offensive...I have no appreciation for at all.

Oh and Gunplay, Id like to tell you where to mount that shotgun....but I believe and know there is a God and it wouldnt be right for me to say that......get over it...God owes us nothing....
        [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/crucified.gif[/img]

The Israeli-Palestinian trouble isn't about religion, it's about land. The Israelis say the land the Palestinians want is their land, and the Palestinians (and the rest of the Arab world) say it's theirs. Jews don't have any beef with Muslims, either - they've lived together in relative peace for a long time. Likewise, Muslims don't have a problem with Judaism in and of itself, but they do have a problem with Israel (the nation) and Zionism - they see Zionism in much the same way as we see fundamentalist Islamic movements like Taliban. Historically, Jews have usually been treated better in Islamic countries than they have in European nations, and up until the Renaissance Islamic countries were the seats of knowledge and learning, because they weren't affected by the Catholic church's prohibition of certain activities. Muslim physicians, for example, didn't have to sneak about by night and rob graveyards in order to learn anatomy, nor would they be punished for dissecting a corpse. So it's not really about religion, but instead it's a result of much more base human needs and desires.

I don't believe in god either, but I'd never go so far as to say there isn't one. Why not? Because I [b]just don't know for sure[/b]. My position is that it's possible (anything is possible) but not probable. At this point in my life I don't feel a need to believe in god - I basically believe in what I can see, hear, touch, and infer (note to the religious: Please don't try to convert me - I'm respecting your right to believe, so please respect my right NOT to), and my current model of the world explains most of what I need and want to know pretty well. But, I'm not ruling out an epiphany in the future that will change my beliefs. So, it might be better to say that you don't believe in god, instead of "there is no god."

Jarhead_22 is right on the money, Bin Laden is after us, not Israel.  Destroying Israel is third on his list of priorities, after destroying moderate Arabs and our influence.  He not only hates it that we are involved in the region, but he hates our entire civilization.  The only way we could stop him from attacking us would be for all of us to move to another planet.

Bin Ladin is an enemy of the PLO, and he would kill Arafat if he could.  He hates such "nationalists."  Read about it, the situation is much more complex than it seems.

Lets review, I am being insensitive by saying that I don't believe in God, certainly not one that takes the form of a creator and makes decisions.  However your support for a fairytale movement (in its many forms) that has cost countless lives and has nothing more then "Faith" as evidence for its existence, is a noble pursuit? Even your own doctrine speaks of unspeakable acts committed by this very "God." From mass murder committed during the floods, to Moses coming down the mountain, finding the golden calf and ordering people to murder their brother/wives/children/fellow man for their idolatry. This is insane. Having just completed a full read of the Bible, something which I suggest you all do, I can't believe the otherwise logical and sane members of this forum don't see though this bullsh*t. The whole book is constantly hypocritical and downright absurd, even comically so. There is everything from the walking dead to floating men, matter transformation, teleportation, the genetics of the whole ark thing, and Adam & Eve starting the whole human race, the list goes on and on, it’s nuts.

Look, in the end I have no truck with you all, you are wrong and that is your right. As long as you’re not on the dole and continue voting less tax, more guns, Bill Of Rights, I'm a happy camper.

So if I have offended any of you I am sorry. But hay, you HAVE to forgive me right? [:D]