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Posted: 9/12/2001 11:00:57 AM EDT
This morning a guy called in to the Howard Stern show from Somerset, PA. He said he was driving with his wife and heard a low flying plane. He pulled over and they got out. They heard an explosion and looked up at the plane that had a fireball coming from it. The plane then crashed into a field and right over the crash flew two military planes. I know this guy could be a wacko but did anyone else hear anything like this. He said that the govt. was probably not saying anything about shooting down the plane headed for Washington DC because they didn't want that looming over them with all that has happened.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:08:15 AM EDT
Anything is always possible, and the FAA did give that warning as well...
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 12:23:10 PM EDT
A couple of things to note: Unlike the other three planes, I have yet to hear any eyewitness accounts of the crash. Could the witnesses be "sequestered" from media comment? Also, I thought that this was the flight that the cell phone caller was calmly talking to his mother (no obvious signs of struggling) It was on a severely convoluted course prior to flying off radar. [img]http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2001/0912/csmimg/0912p2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 12:36:38 PM EDT
A.G. Ashcroft clearly stated that the 4th plane was not shot down. Not by air or ground missile.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 12:48:07 PM EDT
Whether we shot it down or not...all on board were going to die, which was obvious from the previous three attacks. It would be a terrible decision to make, but I am sure one that all on board would agree with if they knew they were going to die anyway. It's doubtful it was shot down though. Think about it...why would a US fighter blow it to smithereens? It can't shoot back, so they would probably strafe a wing or engine so that there would be a possibility of survivors in the resulting crash. My two pennies...
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:10:42 PM EDT
Plenty of eyewitness accounts on TV and radio here in Pittsburgh. Also descriptions from local reporters who are familiar with crash sites about how unusual this one is. Basically, it is a big hole in the ground with comparatively little debris and none of the big pieces of wreckage one usually sees at a big jet crash site. There is even some specualtion about a shoot-down by the local media outlets and LE officials. I don't think this is really being kept under wraps, it simply doesn't make TV as "good" as the other sites do with the huge body counts, fires, and wreckage. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, et. al. simply don't want to "waste" airtime on a hole in the ground with investigative workers in HAZMAT suits creeping around the periphery.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:28:34 PM EDT
take this with a grain of salt as i got it from my aging (and not always with it) grandfather. he says that one of the passengers on this plane had made a cell phone call to his mother. interviews with the mother revealed that the passenger said something to the effect of "if we're going to die, we're going to try and take back the plane." that should make a lot of you feel better too! =)
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:49:06 PM EDT
The PA plane wasn't shot down if you want some .02 cents worth. When the pilot found out that they were getting highjacked, I'd almost bet the farm that he put it down in a low populated area. It makes perfect sense, and if it were me, I'd do exactly that. I know that it's terrible for the plane members to die, but it saved who knows how many people in D.C. like i said though, just .02 cents worth. Mikie
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:55:35 PM EDT
From the very limited media coverage of this crash site, it looks like this plane augured in. Very little identifiable debris and a large, deep crater. There was violence in the cockpit or they were shot down.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 3:00:47 PM EDT
Either way i think that plane could have been the hero of the day by going down in an unpopulated area.Was runored that passengers tried to fight the hijackers,or the pilot would not allow that plane to take out any more civilian lives.who knows how many deaths were prevented.sad to see their lives lost though in the effort at least some went out fighting.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 3:10:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2001 3:11:07 PM EDT by wgunn]
The plane was [b]not[/b] shot down. There were only 3 terrorists aboard the plane. One of the passengers made a phone call from the plane and said that several men (passengers) were going to attempt to re-take the plane from the terrorists. Not long after the plane crashed. I suspect the terrorist pilot crashed the plane in the attempt to re-take it, or something else related to this heroic effort caused it to plummet from the sky. Let's give these hero's their dues and not taint this tragedy with nonsensical talk about government conspiracies.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 4:08:42 PM EDT
I at first thought the Pa. plane was shot down but after how the crash site was explained I don't think so anymore. If it was hit with a missile in air there would be large debris on the ground. Plan gets hit, explodes, and fly's apart leaving lots of big pieces to find. If it nose dives into the ground I think you would be more likely to have the clean crash site they are discribing. Plus I want to believe those three passengers are heros that stood up for themselves and saving lives on the ground.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 6:56:33 PM EDT
The report we heard was that the debree was spread over a three miles. If thats the case it would have had to come apart before it hit the ground
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:38:37 PM EDT
What we heard here.... We heard that a band of passengers tried to overtake the hijackers, and in the scuffle somehow the plane nose dived into the ground. Unsung heros, with their actions died themselves, but saving 1000s in Washington or NYC.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:48:17 PM EDT
Jeremy Glick Thomas E. Burnett Jr. Mark Bingham [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/national/13NEWA.html[/url]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:48:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flashx: The report we heard was that the debree was spread over a three miles. If thats the case it would have had to come apart before it hit the ground
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Your information is wrong:[url]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/valleyindependent/valleyindependent_story.html?rkey=170171+sid=eca17aef4e18d6abb2e22080627d2e81+cat=valleyindependent-news-terror+template=news1.html[/url]
The crash occurred on property owned by PBS Coal Co. and is known as the Diamond T Mine. It is believed the plane nose-dived into the site and created the blackened crater that is at least 45-feet long.
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The aircraft augered in nose first, at almost full speed. The crater is no more than 1/3 the length of the body. Fragments are strewn over a area of 5x2 miles- but they are Fragments, the largest pieces surviving above ground are the recorders, found in the bottom of the creater. The engines are beleved to be there as well, but have buried themselves in the ground and will have to be dug out. One State Police Officer reported seeing fragments embedded in the sides of trees from the force of the blast. These are the signs of a high speed, near vertical collision with the ground. All heavy components are clusterd in or next to the crater. The largest piece of the rest of the aircraft is only 2ft long. Given the circumstances of yesterday the Air Force would not have any reason to hide a shoot down. Bleeding heart liberals have ALREADY been driven into hiding- and we dont even know the death toll from the WTC yet. Once people comprehend that the shit is really going to hit the fan. The tin foil hat types will never beleve this, it just isnt as cool as a conspiricy theory. It is highly unlikely that the report that the report that the passengers attacked the terrorists on that flight is a fraud.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:39:37 PM EDT
... well then, how do you explain parts of the aircraft found [size=2]6[/size=2] miles away from the impact site?
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:46:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:52:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... well then, how do you explain parts of the aircraft found [size=2]6[/size=2] miles away from the impact site?
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It EXPLODED when it hit. It had a hundred thousand pounds of jet fuel that diesled and exploded when it slammed in the ground. Pieced of the plane were found embdded in tree trunks. They were driven by extreme force. If it exploded in the air it would be scattered like confetti over the ground. And can you give one logical reason why the Air Force would hide it? They have admitted they were prepared to shoot this plane down, if it hadnt crashed in PA it would have been shot down over Maryland.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 1:10:57 PM EDT
This plane was not shot down. I have been on many crash sites, and this is very typical of a high speed, high angle crash. Pieces miles away is normal. Something traveling at hundreds of miles per hour, tends to want to keep moving
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 6:00:21 PM EDT
Why do some people want to insist on a conspiracy to hide everything? By doing so, they also detract from the heroic actions of those aboard this doomed craft. Get over it! I guess the fact that they just announced that the crew and passengers were probably going to be awarded medals posthumously is part of the coverup.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:15:19 PM EDT
Can you say "Computer Controlled Laser Orbiting Gun Platform"? ...Sssshhhhhh....It's supposed to be a Secret.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 7:45:00 PM EDT
time to get out the tinfoil. If the plane was shotdown...the plane would have disintegrated BEFORE it hit the ground, leaving not much more than a widely scattered debris field. The very presence of a crater indicates the plane was largely intact when it hit, and the presence of intact engines eliminates the theory of heat seeking missiles, because they would have struck the engines and detroyed them too.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 11:28:58 PM EDT
I have been to a couple of military aircraft crash sceens. If the aircraft flys into the ground (depending on the angle) it either digs a hole in the ground that fans out from the initial point of contact and is sometimes buried as far as 45 feet in the ground or it hits shallow and leaves a huge impact mark with parts of aircraft spread in a wide area. One crash site I went to was an A-7 Corsair. It went out of control after take-off, it was at an altitude of 1500 feet agl and going about 450 knots when it departed normal flight. The pilot stayed with it for about a one-two-three count and then ejected. The A-7 hit the desert floor doing about 450 knots and at a steep angle of descent. The largest part we found was the engine, it was almost 18 feet long when it was whole. On impact it had compressed to just under 12 feet. There were no parts from it outside of the pit it dug.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:01:42 AM EDT
Your pilot may have been mistaken in his details. 450 knots equates to about 760 feet per second, or 3800 feet in five seconds (which is approx. what it would take to do a three count then eject.) Put that aside. I’ve been on many crash investigations and from my experience, at that speed you would be lucky to find any sections of the engine remotely intact. Usually you find chunks of fins, a shaft, and shrapnel. He was most likely going much slower than he told you.
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