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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:55:53 AM EDT
OK, I know this is going to seem like a newbie question, but I honestly have never seen this before. Since My new Beretta 92FS Inox will be here this week(yippie), I decided to go down and see what ammo I had on hand for it. I do not own any other 9mm firearms so I was not familiar with the shells in my guncase. I found a box of winchester 9mm marked "Law Enforcement ONLY, Not for retail sale". Its 147gr subsonic controlled expansion rounds. I think I picked it up in a garage sale box full of other ammo. Whats the story folks? Use it for self defense? Thanks, guns762
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 6:02:11 AM EDT
They must be "Teflon armor piercing cop-killer sniper bullets" You should avoid them. Once a regular person gets their hands on those, the person becomes a mass murderer!
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 6:22:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: Its 147gr subsonic controlled expansion rounds. I think I picked it up in a garage sale box full of other ammo. Whats the story folks? Use it for self defense? Thanks, guns762
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It's perfectly legal for you to have that but if ever used for self defense you may have a few extra questions to answer and a pissy attitude if your local law enforcement agency or district attorney is liberal. IMO the 147gr. 9mm loads are lacking, you'd get far better results from the lighter offerings. Three great LE loads are Win. 127gr. +P+ Ranger SXT (really Black Talons) or either the Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P load or Federal's 124gr. +P+ Hydra-Shok. Other std. over the counter loads are Corbon's 115gr. & 125gr. +P loads or Triton's +P loads.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 6:34:27 AM EDT
Had a box of 115gr 9mm+P+ that was marked LAW only but gave it away when I sold my P-228Sig. Told buyer to shoot it up and not keep it for SHTF type situation. It's not worth the problems with local law enforcement who will check spent rounds at a shooting.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 6:56:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2001 6:58:51 AM EDT by guns762]
Originally Posted By Kevin: IMO the 147gr. 9mm loads are lacking, you'd get far better results from the lighter offerings. Three great LE loads are Win. 127gr. +P+ Ranger SXT (really Black Talons) or either the Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P load or Federal's 124gr. +P+ Hydra-Shok. Other std. over the counter loads are Corbon's 115gr. & 125gr. +P loads or Triton's +P loads.
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Kevin, Thanks, this was my next question also! I'll just shoot the 147gr. Do most people Stick with the 124gr loads for self defense? Of the above, which is your favorite. I like the performance of the 270gr. Speer Gold dot for hunting, with my .44mag. Is thier 9mm loading worth anything? I'm not too hot on the Corbon loads, haven't had good experiences with other calibers. I'm a little leary about the +P+ rounds after reading that the +P rounds still conform to SAAMI, but the +P+ rounds can be loaded to any pressure that the company feels prudent. I don't want to put any undue wear and tear on my pistol.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 7:51:06 AM EDT
BTW, why would this ammo be marked LEO only? It does not say it is +P+ on it. So, why?
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 7:57:32 AM EDT
In most states, there is no legal restriction on non-armor piercing handgun ammo. The "Law Enforcement Only" ammo is made for LE agencies by some companies for LE use, but is not legally restricted to them. The retailers of this ammo have to sign agreements not to distribute it to the general public, and individual officers have to make a sworn affidavit when buying it. This ammo is still legal for non-LE to posess, and it shows up at gun shows and non-LE distrubutors occasionally, sometimes at ridiculously low prices for older loads. Some states (I think New Jersey) do restrict HP ammo, so check your local laws.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 8:24:57 AM EDT
Some LEO ammo is loaded to +p or +p+ levels, and for that reason the manufacturer will not sell it to the average consumer. The LE organization that purchases such ammo agrees to hold the manufacturer free from liability if a weapon fails from using the ammo. Otherwise, there is nothing really remarkable about LEO ammo. Before my dad retired from police work, he used to bring home lots of LEO ammo. +p 38 special hollow points, then 45 acp hollow points when they switched to 1911a1 pistols. I shot up bushels of the stuff, and there was nothing miraculous about any of it. The Sheriff's Office for which I am a part-timer has a "buy your own gun 'n ammo" policy, so I just use .40 S&W Hydroshocks.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 8:36:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2001 8:41:18 AM EDT by Kevin]
Originally Posted By guns762: Do most people Stick with the 124gr loads for self defense? Of the above, which is your favorite... ...I'm a little leary about the +P+ rounds after reading that the +P rounds still conform to SAAMI, but the +P+ rounds can be loaded to any pressure that the company feels prudent. I don't want to put any undue wear and tear on my pistol.
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Originally Posted By guns762: BTW, why would this ammo be marked LEO only? It does not say it is +P+ on it. So, why?
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I'm not an authority to answer this but I do know LEO offerings can have bullet design changes & minor or major (+P+) performance enhancements that make it different than the company's std. civilian lineup. One example is Winchester had a civilian line of the Black Talon but due to bad press it was pulled from the open market but Win. continued it's LEO sales. My favorite load is the Win. 127gr. +P+ Ranger SXT. Next is the Gold Dot offering followed by the 125gr. Corbon load. You should not at all be worried about the +P+ designation, the loads are thoroughly tested and evaluated in many quality firearms. Manufacturers such as Glock, HK, Sig & Beretta torture test their handguns with ammos of this nature and so I think your Beretta will 'eat' it w/out a problem. I seriously doubt you'll ever shoot more than 5 or 6 boxes a year so don't worry.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 8:36:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2001 8:46:08 AM EDT by KWR]
Guns, I am law enforcement in the city I live in, and I there are some types of ammo civilians can not purchase or have in your possession. To be on the safe side, ask your local law enforcement agency. They will be able to answer any questions you may have. Better to know your local, and state laws, than get caught with anything illegal. The decision is your's, and your's alone.
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 9:33:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2001 9:38:45 AM EDT by sopmodm4]
Originally Posted By KWR: Guns, I am law enforcement in the city I live in, and I there are some types of ammo civilians can not purchase or have in your possession. To be on the safe side, ask your local law enforcement agency. They will be able to answer any questions you may have. Better to know your local, and state laws, than get caught with anything illegal. The decision is your's, and your's alone.
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Bull Flying Shit! Here are the imported types of pistol ammo you may not have KTW THV Swedish Ord Arcane Gecko These all have solid cores or a jacket that makes up most of the bullets mass. You can have all the "Black Talons",+p++ and even KDFMJ that you want.There is no law against it except for NJ won't let you have hollow points(fags).I personally run Mullins 115gr +p++(1500fps)on the street and IDF Black Tip ball for my high penetration and plinking loads.These are way,way beyond the specs of anything any LE agency runs and are both intended for real professionals.If it's got a mostly lead core(or plastic like the KDFMJ)you can shoot it,own it,kill you enemies with it.When you get to court is the only time you will need to worry about it.If you are using ammo called Devastator,killer***? then it might be a problem but if you have LE ammo you are in the clear.You just say"I was advised by a policeman that this ammo was the best for self defense"when they ask you his name you say"I don't remember he was just standing by the counter at the gun shop".Done deal.Besides if there was some kind of restriction on non AP bullets there would be a law about it wouldn't there?There are laws about AP bullets but not JHPs and the like.It's just a ploy to make the polyester commandos feel special so they will buy their product. sopmodm4
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 9:54:10 AM EDT
As long as hollow points are legal where you live, LE "only" ammo is fine to shoot and own. I use either Federal's 9mm 115gr +P+ or Georgia Arms 9mm "Shear Power Plus" 115gr +P+ or 124gr +P in my SIG Sauer P226. (Usually the 124gr load when it gets colder, for better penetration) Tyler
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 10:01:26 AM EDT
then theres the BS states like Kalifornia were tracers are LEO
Link Posted: 9/10/2001 10:08:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: then theres the BS states like Kalifornia were tracers are LEO
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You're right cyrax777 - I didn't even think about commie Kali [:D] Tyler
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