Interesting factoid. The incident involving 13 Miami cope who conspired to murder, purjure, and use drop guns has been posted on a cop-oriented board (GlockTalk's forum named CopTalk) for over 48 hours and NOT ONE COP has stepped up to condemn the"criminals" in Miami who used their police powers (authority, uniforms, and guns) to kill civilians and hide the crime.

       The Cops who posted did the following (1) whine that the Miami officers were merely  indicted implying that the charges were false [apparently this poster was unaware of the      many guilty pleas], (2) whine that the story was in the lying liberal media implying again that the charges were false [even after the guilty pleas were called to this second poster's attention], and (3) bi**h about how they hate lawyers, especially the lawyer who asked embarassing questions none of the LEO's would answer.

      HUNDREDS READ THAT THREAD but NOT ONE LEO RESPONDED BY CONDEMNING THE CRIMES OR THE CRIMINAL OFFICERS IN MIAMI.

      Is their SILENCE sending a message to the civilian world? It's is hard to see it as       disapproving of the officer's misconduct.

                   See: http://glocktalk.gunserver.com/show...&threadid=35616

I have found glocktalk to be the most left-leaning of any gun board I've visited. Full of bliss ninnies and gun owners who vote democratic, believe their guns will be taken last.

Have you ever heard anyone care about what a LEO has to say?  Why would they bother?  Not to mention that many are surely embarassed by association due to the incident.  If they did post, it would certainly be followed up by a barrage of questions and flames.  Who needs that?  

How do you know that those who did post were really cops?

You're also not considering the fact that LEOs are almost always prohibited from speaking out on official issues unless authorized.

Actually the silence can be atributed to maybe, not reading that post.  As a LEO we go by everyday being falsly charged, it is a condition of employment. There is a wait and see attitude. What they are accused of does happen, but as the crooks 'innocent until proven' But there is also the fact that they have broken the public trust.
Also we have those LEOs that have tried to bring those to justice within our own ranks. I personally have seen it, as my career is pretty much ruined for speaking out.
The polititions often refuse to investigate or are as much a part of it.
When we are on our own time, online as this, we want to forget what wee have seen, but can not do anything about.  We need that time to get our life back before we go again to keep you and your family safe.
Yes sometimes we get blinders  on, but one person, can only do so much. And as the civilians sit at home and complain, how many say thanks for a quiet shift. You vote for the same polititions that lett the system continue.
I was ridiculed for years for speaking out....my words are know being found out true.  
One honest cop can make a difference, but the cost was very great, so great that most people would not be willing  to make it.  And no one ever says thank you.
This is what keeps me going,
     The quality of truth is more important and more powerful than the quanity of all their lies.
     Frank Serpico

Actually the silence can be atributed to maybe, not reading that post.  As a LEO we go by everyday being falsly charged, it is a condition of employment. There is a wait and see attitude. What they are accused of does happen, but as the crooks 'innocent until proven' But there is also the fact that they have broken the public trust.
Also we have those LEOs that have tried to bring those to justice within our own ranks. I personally have seen it, as my career is pretty much ruined for speaking out.
The polititions often refuse to investigate or are as much a part of it.
When we are on our own time, online as this, we want to forget what wee have seen, but can not do anything about.  We need that time to get our life back before we go again to keep you and your family safe.
Yes sometimes we get blinders  on, but one person, can only do so much. And as the civilians sit at home and complain, how many say thanks for a quiet shift. You vote for the same polititions that lett the system continue.
I was ridiculed for years for speaking out....my words are know being found out true.  
One honest cop can make a difference, but the cost was very great, so great that most people would not be willing  to make it.  And no one ever says thank you.
This is what keeps me going,
     The quality of truth is more important and more powerful than the quanity of all their lies.
     Frank Serpico

Every one of those cops are innocent. The civilian collateral damage was kept to a minimum and is a small price to pay to preserve democracy in this country. Anyone that does not support such actions which help get a cop home safely to his family at night must be a criminal.

First off PhantomGuyInBack, I didn't read that post, I don't go to that site. Second, this is an FBI sting, not to say that they ever screw up, lie, hide evidence, misrepresent evidence, vilify suspects...., third, they are innoncent until proven guilty in a court of law, just like everyone else, fourth, as I recall the time line was during Janet Reno's tenure as the Dade County States Attorney. She had the Worst conviction rate in the state. The most cases overturned on appeal, the most cases not tried because of dubious plea bargians, and outright bumbling on the part of her office.
Now, that is to not say that if in fact they are proven guilty in a court of law, that they should not carry the maximum penalty. They should. I am, however tired of it being OK to lynch cops on this board, when idiots like Beck are innoncent, set up, poor little gunowners set upon by the system. All people deserve the same rule of law. And in Miami, it's for damn sure a fact that they have lynched cops in the past to satisfy the mob mentality of the black community. (Alvarez and Lorenzo both of Miami PD come to mind) So just because I don't jump on the band wagon and condemn untried men without the benefit of seeing the evidence, after only hearing what the FBI has to say, well condem me then for trying to do what the system says. You might want to refresh your thoughts on due process in the mean time.

F4GIB I hate to use this subject to make my first post here but here goes. This is the first I hear of these Miami cops. I don't watch the news or read any newspapers for obvious reasons. If it not on the Fox News Channel i don't know about it and if it was I must have missed it.

I have been a LEO for over 21 years and am currently a Lt. with a little over 3 years until I retire. I work for a department with over 100,000 population in the South. If those officers did what you said they did they should be ultimately sent to prison. I have no use for dirty cops. Personally within my department the only dirty cops we end up with are usually ones that were not qualified to begin with but were hired because of some federally required hiring guidelines if you get my drift and basically they were criminals prior to becoming a cop and the behavior never stopped until they were ultimately burned for more criminal behavior. And what is ironic about that is that the rank and file sees this and wants these guys and gals fired and jailed, etc., but generally the problem is that the politicians very high up within the department sometimes find it hard locally in a community to discipline certain officers because of the fear they will wear a certain politically correct label that no one wants to wear if you understand what I am saying.  Of course it is nothing of the seriousness of the allegations in the Miami case.

Actually I see an increasing trend toward de-policing as most officers these days prefer not to stop anyone, not to be pro-active, etc., as it is much easier for them to just respond to calls after the fact. It eliminates complaints, being labeled a racist, being sued, etc. But that is a whole new subject.

One thing that may surprise you and this subject was addressed on another post is that the great majority of cops within my department are 100 percent against gun control of any kind. We all have enough sense to know that we will be civilians again one day. I personally am in the process of dumping everything I own that has a Law Enforcement/Government use only stamp because I am getting so close to retirement. I don't want to own anything that has that stamp on it. I am getting rid of all high capacity Glock mags trading them for prebans, I sold a Colt LEO only ar-15 and in turn bought a civilian legal Oly, etc. But I now I am off of the subject. Just wanted to give you my perspective on this. I don't visit a lot of gun or law enforcement forums so I was not aware of the Miami story however if you are right they should be fired, convicted, and jailed.  And I don't know why you should be surprised that I feel that way.

I thought it was SOP for cops that if you screwed up, you kept a little revolver or Raven .25 with no serial number so that you could press the dead guy's hand on it and then leave it at the scene to justify the shooting.

Guess I'm just cynical...  But doesn't this happen in every big city?  For all I know, most of the evidence used against people is manufactured.

Many LEO's don't bother because we don't really think many of you give a shit what we have to say- you've already made up your minds about all of these incidents, based on media reports.   A large number of people on this board have already decided that LEO's are either corrupt, stupid, or incompetent, and there's no point in trying to sway them.  Any LEO who disagrees with them is an apologist at best, a jack-booted thug at worst.  It's obvious from the posts that many of them have never responded to any sort of critical incident and really don't know what the fuck they are talking about.  It's really easy to be a monday-morning quarterback when it's not your ass that's on the line.

As far as the incident in Miami, it's really not surprising to me that this happened.  That department suffers from a number of problems common to large departments, one of the worst being the need to hire and retain certain numbers of minority recruits regardless of their qualifications.  Why do departments do those kinds of things?  Pressure from the public to be 'more diverse'.  Political patronage and corruption are also rampant throughout the city, not just the police department.  If these Miami officers did do what the FBI says they did, then criminal prosecution is indeed warranted.  Cops like that only make all of us in the profession look bad, and fan the flames of all of the cop-haters.  However, it doesn't matter that thousands of cops all over the country do their jobs honorably every day, when a baker's dozen commit crimes we all get painted with the same brush.

Now, if you'll all forgive me, I'm going to be uncivil for just a moment:

Imbroglio, go fuck yourself.  You're a smarmy little prick who likes to sit in the safety of his bedroom and yap at his betters from behind the keyboard.  I'm guessing you were the kid in 6th grade who took great pleasure in tattling on others for any little infraction to curry favor with the teacher.  I'm also guessing you've never, ever in your life put your ass on the line for anyone else.  You should try actually doing something useful instead of just sending out your smartass one-liners that add nothing to any discussion.  

If I were an LEO I wouldn't respond to similar threads.  Regardless of which side you support it's a no-win situation.

Why do many seem shocked whenever a cop does cross the line?  Afterall, they, like any other group, are an across-the-board sampling of our society.  In just about any group of people, be it cops, military, college students or church board members, 90 percent of the problems are caused by 10 percent of the people.  AFA cover-up attempts, name an outfit that wouldn't try to cover-up an embarrassing situation?  Cops come in all flavors, good, not-so-good and down right dispicable.  The not-so-good and dispicable are a small percentage, but tend to get the most attention.  

Eddie

I second that. All those in favor raise a finger to Imbroglio.[-!-]

Well said Sparky.

Wow, I lost a lot of respect for you because of this statement.  The attitude that it conveys is alarming.  Especially, the part about yapping at his betters.  What makes you think you are better than any law abiding member of this board.  One word of advice, don't let you emotions rule your mind.  

Trickshot you have been watching way too much TV. Although you could be correct when referring to PDs like LA, NY, D.C., and the like, i really don't know but I can tell you within the PDs I know we are of the opposite view. Actually most of us would rather not return fire and really retreat and take cover and hope the suspect goes away or escapes than one of us have to take his life and us get raked over the coals and God forbid if the suspect is a minority. Your career is over. I would feel more confident as a civilian taking the life of a burglar entering my own home than I would taking someone's life in the line of duty. And that is a direct result of me fearing that folks like you would be on the Grand Jury. So even if I knew I was 100 percent right I don't want any part of that. Hopefully I can make it a few more years and then get out because this is one career I would never take up again in this day and age. Good luck to you.