If you were a competant moderator you would not have made that mistake.  Repost that which you have deleted and I'll drop it.

Ahhh, yes, ONLY perfect people need apply for the job. I got like three frickin' threads going. RELAX.

Making the corrections now. If you look, EVEN the attribtution is botched, so NO ONE even thinks you psoted it.

Sheesh.

Noi where is it required that the ENTIRE post be quoted. I will not repost the your entire quote, becasue it is largely irrelevant to my reply.

The ONLY mistake I made was in the attribution.

RELAX.

I'm glad you caught that Tyler. I had missed it. I guess garandman can not play on a level playing field even with Gods devine introvention. Or maybe it was God that edited Muab's post and he just used garandmans user name.

I am a mod at a WAREZ board, and I know mistakes [i]can[/i] happen. I believe Garandman.

I hope that a lot of people post their thoughts on this topic - it is one that we all anve to come to terms with.

Tyler

What happens when we die?

What happens to the programs that are running when we shut off the computer?

In this fast paced world
made of fast paced money
gotta make it make it make it
and get rich rich rich
You take the money money money
take it out of the bank
then you put it into stocks
and the market starts to crash
and you're really really broke
so you go and get a gun
and you shoot youself in the head

Then you rot rot rot
then your body starts to rot
rot rot rot
and your body starts to rot
it starts to rot
it starts to rot

'cause after all
who's got time
to squeeze oranges?

Now you are condescending about? WTF? Well, I am a staff member on a couple of boards and even own a board and this has never happened to me. Even if it were a simple mistake, which I believe there is really no reason to be a prick about it when someone catches it.
The fact that you do that and then talk down to the members that point it out is what is pathetic.

When you actually quote me you can do whatever the hell you like.  For future reference, it's considered very bad manners to censor my reply to your insults.  You have yet to restore my post to it's original content.  You have censored my so that the world cannot see what you are.  I find it hard to beleive that you could "accidentally" censor me twice.  

I will be away from my computer for several hours.  I have emailed goatboy on this matter.  I consider this to be a gross abuse of power.

The one thing that is certain is decomposition.
Unless mummification is employed.
I do not believe in any deity.
No all knowing omnipotent force is involved.
I do not necessarily discount the possibility however of some form of conscious existence after death.
I have seen apparitions or specters or ghosts if you will and was not hallucinating or "seeing" things as another person was present and witnessed the same phenomenon.

You leave your guns to ME, that's what.

Simply put, I am a lifelong member of the Church of Christ, a very, very fundamentalist part of the Body of Christ.

The answer to 'what happens when we die' is very certain to me.  [u]As an adult[/u], if you believe in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of the Father, that you have made this 'good' confession before men, that you have united with Christ in full immersion baptism as a believing adult, and that you continue in His Goodness [u]until[/u] either He returns for his Church, or you go to Him after your death, [u]then[/u], and [u]only[/u] then will you be with Him in Heaven.

If you fail in [u]any[/u] of these requirements, the fate that awaits you is pretty awful, to say the least.  The Jews knew what 'Gehenna' meant for certain, it was to them the ultimate horror, for it meant complete separation from God. Well, this word is used 14 times in the New Testament, and 13 of those were by Jesus.

Your corporeal body will die and rot, but upon His return, your corporeal body will be raised into an incorporeal ('incorruptable') physical body, that can eat and drink (as Christ ate and drank after His resurrection).

Jesus left us a 'final exam' and the question comes down to 'what have you done for the least of these My brethren'? Thank God, it's an 'open book' exam!

Eric The(Restored)Hun[>]:)]

In my belief, this question is too philosofical to answer on this board..........[:)]

ooh, ooh, ooh.  i know this one.  "I think, therefore, I am."  

that was simple.  does the test get harder?

All the memories and experiences that make you are lost, "like tears in the rain."
Nothing happens when you die, you won't exist any more than you did before you were born.

This brings to mind a point I read once.  People are deathly afraid of not being around anymore after they die...but none seem afraid of the nearly infinite time that occurred before they were born. Yet they didn't exist then, and they won't exist after they die.

No, no, no:

That is what you are!  But what am I?

Post from Lougotzz -

[i]Au contraire, mon frere.[/i] When Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, comes to Jesus by night (he was afraid to come to the young rabbi during daylight hours when someone might see him!), as shown in Chapter 3 of the Gospel of John, Jesus informed him thus:

[red][size=3]Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.[/size=3][/red]

How is one 'born of water'? Baptism, pure and simple!

Anytime the Lord says the word 'verily' even more emphasis should be given what follows, for it is the manner of an oath in Aramaic, literally, 'truthfully.'  Here Jesus repeats the word [u]twice[/u] for even more emphasis, indicating that what follows is crucial!

Insofar as the penitent thief on the cross, I will give you 3 reasons that his 'conversion' on the cross is a different matter -

1. [u]He died under the Law[/u]. His sins were forgiven him simply for being a Jew and asking the Father for forgiveness.

2. [u]Who said he was never baptized?[/u] John the Baptist baptized 'many', so how do you know he wasn't one who was baptized of John?

3. [u]Jesus is the Savior[/u]! He is the Author of Salvation, Who keeps the keys of heaven and hell. I'm certain that He is able to save anyone He desires, without fear of anyone criticizing Him for not following His rules.

Finally, can you me one example of anyone in Acts, who was saved that did not also immediately get baptized?  Just one example would do. Guess what, there isn't anyone, even Paul, who got in without getting baptized.

Even Jesus was baptized by John[red]'in order that all righteousness be fulfilled'[/red]

Just look up the word baptism in any good Bible concordance and follow the threads.

Finally, is His last address to His disciples, He said [red]Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth [u]and is baptized[/u] shall be saved...'[/red]Mark 16: v.15,16.

It appears to me pretty clearly that water baptism, by immersion, is the one and only rite of initiation into His Church - He did it, all His disciples did it, the early Church did it, so why not everyone?

Eric The(HisWill,NotMine)Hun[>]:)]

My wife finds another man and makes his life hell and then he dies and it starts all over again.

whew.

my wife worked for years in oncology as a nurse, and firmly believes in the afterlife, because when patients would die, she could feel them around her for a while. she said that it was like a farewell type of feeling. most times. however, a few times it would be freightening. i believe in it because i have had certain experiences that cannot be explained by science. my grand father dying at 11:0'clock a.m., 150 miles away, while i was at work. my sudden and unexplainable urge to leave my job and drive down to their home at 11:o'clock a.m.(my boss was pissed for a bit). when i arrived, many relatives and friends from nearby were in the driveway crying,(three hours after i left), and the reception i recieved was kinda like: "well, its about time you showed up", even though nobody had called me. yes, i believe that there is a soul, and an afterlife.
willy

... I expect to finally get answers to all lifes most puzzling questions.

[thinking]

... those thing make make you go hum?

As Carl Sagan said "We are star stuff."

Mother Nature will recycle me back to my former self.

[img]http://ftp.seds.org/pub/images/deepspace/messier/m100.gif[/img]

I've got it...I've got it!!!!!!!!!

What happens when we die.

Those who don't beleive in Gosh go to Heck.


[:D]

Personally I think it's game over, ashes and dust.

We as humans have been gifted and cursed with intelligence, with intelligence comes fear. Fear for the unknown, hence we like to belief it's not over after it's over. In that respect I envy animals who just live and die.

Havent had the experience, and not planning on having it for a long time.

But if I was wrong about the wormfood thing, I'll haunt you all to tell you about it [;)]

But I dont believe in living my life now to get rewarded later, I get rewarded and punished by the everyday things I do. Does that make my life usefull, I'd like to think so. But I quess they'll have to decide that when I'm dead and gone.

To make a long story short, I die, donate organs get to lay in a coffin, hopefully someone remembers to say something nice about me and after that cremation. What remains are memories and photo's.

Kuiper

Darn, ARlady.  I thought it was "I sink,
therefore I swam."

This idea didn't originate with Franklin.  It was first postulated by the French mathematician and philosopher Blaise Pascal around 1670 and has come to be known as "Pascal's Wager".  

There are several logical problems with this idea, a few of which are noted here: [url]http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/[/url] .

Yep [:)]

Actually this is one explanation for proof of existence.  However, if you believe in an eternal afterlife, the logic of 'I think, therefore I am' only proves that you have conciousness.  It does not prove where that conciousness exists.  It is entirely feasible that you have lived your entire life and are 'living' for eternity in either heaven or hell.

But to state that there is an afterlife, there must logically be a pre-life as well.  Otherwise there is simply life and nothing else.  You might be lingering in a pre-life somewhere, waiting to be born.

To further the confusion, how do you know that the truth isn't the following?

[b]I think, therefore you are.[/b]

This neither proves or disproves an afterlife, it does however bring up several questions regarding free will and creation.  If God created man in his image then the above would be a statement that man is God.

"Internal life"?  Is that where you're reincarnated as a tapeworm? [:D]


But then what keeps the afterlife from being pointless?

I disagree.  Your argument seems to be that an undying soul must exist at all points in time.  But why couldn't a soul be infinite only into the future, just as (in geometry) a ray can have infinite length in only one direction?

Well I think I see your point but I'd like to clarify my own.  This is long and I'm writing on my lunch break so I hope it makes sense.  I don't contend that a soul must exist at all points in time simultaneously.  Neither does a ray.  A ray (in two or three dimensions but I'll only use two for this example) is a graph denoting location in space against some other variable.  Lets use space and time.  To begin a ray you must have a beginning of the ray at some point in both location and time.  It must also travel in a certain direction at a certain time interval.  As an example, I'll follow the propogation of a ray that originates at the center of the Big Bang.   The problem with rays on a universal scale is time.  IF the big bang occured, and for this example we'll call that instant "creation", then the universe truly is expanding as we know it to be.  This theory would suggest that there must be an end to the universe as we know it.  If not, there couldn't have been a big bang because the act of creation would have created an end of creation at some point along the ray that we're following.  Not really a problem until you realize that the universe must eventually stop expanding and collapse back in on itself.  Without going into the mathematical details of gravity and wormholes, etc... the reversal of direction of the expansion of the universe would create a turn around in the direction of propogation of the ray that we are following.  So technically, a ray is a theoretical mathematical device that is used to calculate answers.  So if the universe collapses on itself, Einstein's special theory of relativity would suggest that time would stop (or appear to stop) as the mass of the universe concentrated into an infinitely small singularity.  At that point neither time nor space exist as we know them to be presently.  When the density of the universe became too extreme, an enormous energy release would result in the form of another Big Bang. Now, this does not rule out the existence of a creator, it simply questions the single creation (Big Bang).  If the Big Bang did occur, the universe will constantly go through cycles of existance and non existance continuously and forever.  If not, the universe would have existed forever and will exist forever, without creation or destruction.

Personally I like the singularity model of the universe that Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking argued over so much.  

So to summarize, for the soul to be like a ray, it must have existed forever or it must go through cycles of existence.

Why does it always end up with Jesus?

How about this:

If you can convert matter to energy; then I can accept the concept of a soul.  

I agree with G. Carlin on this point:

If you acknowledge reincarnation, you die, go to a place and come back.  There are more people now than ever.  Someone is minting new souls.  If this is true will it end up decreasing the value of the existing souls.

For a soul to exist as a form of energy it must obey the laws of entropy.  For the entropy of the universe to remain constant, the soul must never be allowed to leave this universe.  However, if the soul energy was transfered into another form of energy like light or heat or some other unknown form then it would be possible to allow for the existence of 'soul'.  However, this concept is somewhat counter to the belief system of Christianity.  If we postulated that Heaven was actually a different dimension in time or space, for the soul to travel to Heaven there must be an equal exchange of energy.  So in order for your soul to go to Heaven, someone elses soul must be sent back to this universe.  I can see how this is possible being that the known universe is so large.  I don't think that it is very probable though.

Allah Akbar, Allah Asalaam!

IEEEEEE!  j/k

Warning!

ARELIGIOUS STUFF HERE

I was around thirteen.  My dog, Sam, was sick.  The Vet said he had cancer which was causing his heart to enlarge.. he guessed it would be less than a week.  I stayed home every night to spend time with Sam.  We had to put up a cardboard barrier to keep him in the kitchen, because he would pee whenever he fell asleep.  One night, he was very persistent about getting past the cardboard barrier..so persistent that I let him through and made him lay on my lap to ensure he wouldn't fall asleep and pee....

He laid down and seemed to relax, his tail wagged for a minute or so and then he just looked up at me and died, right there in my arms.  His eyes went grey and his head slumped down and every sense in my body told me he was gone.  I really loved Sam, he was a great dog.

At that moment, I knew that we are all mortal... there is no heaven and we all will die.

Since then, I have held many a hand while someone died....every time, I feel the shudder and remember my pet dog, Sam...and I am reminded of the cold hard fact that we are mortal.

Live life well, you get but one.  

It's actually alot scarier to picture the end as [NOTHING], And harder, (really impossible) to visualise.


You die, the switch turns off, the light goes out.

What was the purpose of your life? none

What result did your life have?   none

Did you really exist at all?  prove it!

Some kind of afterlife is much more plausable.

In a universe with E=MC2, and Black holes, and Anti-matter,  you have to be pretty dense to disbelieve something just because you can't see it.

Something happens, perhaps we all go to that great range in the sky.  Free Ammo, totally unregulated, and you don't have to pick up any brass!

And thus, on this day, a NEW RELIGION was born! [beer]

I like it! [:D]

Tyler

More plausible, or just more comforting? [;)]

I don't know why life should be "meaningless" without an afterlife.  When my last truck died, it went to the junkyard and became scrap -- and unless it had a soul that went off to truck heaven, that was the end of it.  It was manufactured, it ran for a little over 100,000 miles, and it died.  But was its existence meaningless?  Not to me... for several years it meant that I had a way to haul myself and my stuff around town, and I'm sure the previous owner got some use out of it was well.

I don't see why human life should be an either-or choice between a warm-up for paradise or nothing at all.    

Man, not having to pick up brass sure would be nice.  And free???  That's too much! [:)] But I think I'll pick it up until the day I die and then my sons/daughters will pick up their brass.  The progressive chain of DNA will continue.  That is one purpose of life.

Energy does equal the quotient of mass and the squared speed of light.  Black holes do exist, so does anti-matter.  Hell we've created anti-matter in the lab.  We've also seen the Gamma and X radiation caused by black holes.  All of these things were only dreamed of at one time with no proof at all.  Those theories however were based on repeatable, measurable fact.  What makes an afterlife more plausible?  No one has ever seen it, measured it's effects, or heard of anyone coming back.  It cannot be tested, examined, or repeated.  I believe that it is more plausible for there not to be an afterlife.  It is also much less frightening to think that I can live a good life as [b]I[/b] see fit (free will) without the fear of accidentally pissing off someone I can neither see, hear, touch, measure, talk to, etc. and spending an eternity (which also most likely cannot exist) in hell.

Gee, Muad_Dib, I was just trying to use an analogy from grade school geometry and you went and got all cosmological on me. ;)


That's not what I had in mind...

Imagine this:

First, a line.  It's just a line existing in one dimension and extending to infinite length in both directions.

Now we pick a point on the line.  We'll call it B.

Now we pick another point to the right of B.  We'll call it D.

If the line represents time (and I'll grant that it's an imperfect representation, but it's how people commonly think of time), with the left being the past and the right being the future, we can imagine that line segment BD represents a human life from birth to death.

Now, is it so hard to visualize a ray (or a half line, if you prefer) originating at B and extending rightward indefinitely beyond D?

I believe in an eternal soul, which will be judged, by the Most High.

I hope I pass the test...and hope all of you do, too. (For the religious record, I accepted the free gift of salvation from Jesus the Christ.)

Not sure about the nature of heaven and hell, but I expect Hell would be an eternity spent with the likes of Clinton, Reno, and the California senators (argh!)

Ed !

How in the hell could a question like that not turn into a religious discussion!  

 My computer is crashed again, new hard drive being installed within 10 days... 3rd one in a year !!! As far as the death question,  We all meet our maker sooner or later...  um that is, unless we give in to that damn forbidden fruit....  [;)]

realist out...  

Post by ELEFTARIA -

Then why, oh why, did the very Creator of such water birth waste His precious breath advising a Ruler of the Jews, Nicodemus, that you MUST be born of water!

He should have said, then, [red]'Except a man be born...and be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.'[/red]

Who comes into this World without being born of 'the water' that He referred to?

That would be perfectly pointless, and I don't believe that Our Lord wasted His breath on the pointless, do you?

But what of [u]His[/u] baptism by John, why did He feel the need to 'wash away' any sins, since He had none?

In order that [red]'all righteousness'[/red] might be fulfilled, and remember He also said [red]'Except your righteousness exceedeth the righteousness of the Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.'[/red]

How can you so openly abandon one of His basic  commandments and teach others to do so, without doing violence to His word? You must come to Christ on His terms, not man's terms. If He suffered Himself to be baptized, why would you teach others that it was inconsequential????

[b]Name one Believer in Acts who 'was saved' and was not baptized by immersion in water. It appears that the Early Church sure knew what sort of baptism Jesus was referring to in His commandment!

What about the [red]'Go ye into all the world...'[/red] quote from Mark 16: 15,16? He says specifically that he who believeth and IS [u]baptized[/u] shall be saved...

Eric The(ComeLetUsReasonTogether)Hun[>]:)]

I don't post here all that often but I see some of you might like to know this...It may give you some peace of mind and some comfort and a certainty that you are not unknown and forgotten....

A few years ago when I was somewhat younger I was taken to the Emergency Room with Pneumonia. I lived alone back then & had thought it was Flu. I also was a big driniker and this didn't help my confused and deteriorating condition.

Friends had found me unconscious in my apartment. I was barely breathing.

While in the Emergency Room my heart stopped & the team working on me rushed to resuscitate my heart.

I had a Near Death Experience.

I remember going out the right side of my body and scrambling up against a wall all the while watching my body being worked on by the Emergency Room team.

Next I recall going through a dark tunnel towards a Golden and Warm Light. The Light exuded Love as no Human Love ever could. This was the Love of God. I knew it was God waiting at the end and I just knew this instinctively.

God is a Male and he is all Spirit. I came Face to Face with God & we spoke.

It is at this time that I knew the Answers to all the Questions humans have ever wondered about.

Why are some people murdered and some Children die so young? Why do some people Suffer so much in Life and why is the World seemingly so Cruel?
What is the purpose of Life and why are we all here? Where is the Fairness, Truth and Justice in this Life?

I once knew the answers to those Questions. But back here in this life it is difficult to explain.

But God sent me back. It wasn't my time to be there with Him just yet. And since then I've always known I would live a long life.

God sent me back to do a few things.....some of which I just don't remember.  

I spent 7 days in a coma....the medical staff thought I may have suffered brain damage and paralysis...But I didn't....I went on in Life to earn 4 College & University Degrees. Hah!

This all happened before I met and married my Wife. One thing I know for certain that I am to do in this Life is to be good to Her....

I won't get into this as it is personal.

But I tell you all this---God exists. You will be Judged by what you do in this Life....and God expects you to be Righteous Men & Women in the full and totality of your Lives. And to do Righteous Deeds for all. Be Kind to one another and Love your Families. Love Life itself...It is a Gift after all and you were given it free....

Sometimes you will fail in all this but you must try again....I know from experience...

Well, I've said all I'm going to say about this.

Go ahead and laugh, I don't care....At least one of us knows the Truth and I hope some of you now know it also....

And I probably will not discuss this with you all again....

But I felt called to Testify so that you might know Death is not the End.....Be Brave, God has not forsaken us....He knows us all and He Loves us all....

To quote the Bard -


Eric The(Credo)Hun[>]:)]

Which book of the Bible did he write?

Folks, Adam plunged the whole human race into sin way back in the Garden of Eden.  Because of this, God send his only Son Jesus Christ to earth to become our sin sacrifice on the cross. If we will simply realize that we have sinned against a holy God, that the penalty of dying in our sins without Christ is eternal death in hell, and that by placing our trust in Christ's finished work on the cross we can be instantly saved forever!  If we could get to heaven any other way, (i.e. relying on our good works) then why did Jesus die?  We must do good works [red]because[/red] we are saved, not [red]to be[/red] saved. Don't put salvation off!  You may die today.

You know, I don't mind being told to look to God for guidance , to become saved so I can go to heaven, and all that. I'm just sick of God bein' broke all the time. Maybe if he wasn't allways askin' for money, I'd hang out at his place more, but the shit gets old.