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Posted: 9/3/2001 5:26:12 PM EDT
ass? Sorry. I just went into the kitchen for a refreshing cool one and noticed my wife was accidentally watching a Steven Segal flick. Was he not the most non credible martial arts dork of all time? Ahahahahah!! For that matter, they all are so freeking ridiculous, I don't see how anyone could get any real satisfaction out of watching any of them. I had a dream once where I was in a boxing ring in high school with my most feared high school enemy, and my punches were having absolutely no effect on his troll/orc like ass. I suspect this would be the result if you put any one of them in the ring with say, Mike Tyson. What do you think?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:31:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:32:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:49:33 PM EDT
ANY martial arts dork could kick Mike Tysons ass. Of course he will probably turn around and pulverize them for it. Contrary to popular misconception... 1. Martial Arts cannot be learned by ANYONE in 10 easy lessons. 2. Martial Arts are NOT simple and easy. 3. Martial Arts will not make you invincable. Genuine Martial Arts training is for a rare few with the personal dicipline and dedication necessary to handle the rigorous and often brutal methods. As for Steven Segal, he is the real deal and was one of the few Westerners to operate a successful dojo in Japan. I don't know if he can kick Mike ass or not though. My problem with Steve is he seems to have abandoned his values and gone Hollywood. When comparing Boxers(American) to Black Belts, here is the deal. Martial Artists are FAR more lethal in terms of technique. Boxers usually still defeat them in both contests and combat. The reason is "training." Your average boxer has been hit ans knows what it is to hit someone. There are actually black belts(to use the term "loosely") who have never been struck full force and don't know what it is to knock a man out. If black belts trained like boxers(as they should)or boxers applied the martial artist more lethal techniques, then you would have a REAL martial artists.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:57:22 PM EDT
Seagal, though he runs like a girl. Avoiding Tyson is the key he gets my vote because he always has a goto .45. That's punchin' power.[;)] Zaz
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:58:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:01:09 PM EDT
As hard as it is to believe,,, I am in total agreement with SteyrAUG on this one. Way back in the day, when I was in college, I trained regularly in Tae-Kwon-Do. I had other friends who were into boxing and wrestling. Boxers could kick your ass really well but well trained (and practicing) martial artists could kill you quickly. It would be a contest of whether Mike could hit his head before Seagal could break one of his legs. You just couldn't have this contest unless it was for the real deal. Otherwise the boxer would have the advantage, due to what SteyrAUG points out.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:01:11 PM EDT
What about Chuck Norris? He has gotten older, sure, but he actually was a world champion.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:06:16 PM EDT
Anyone else here watch Ultimate Fighting Championship faithfully? Boxers GENERLY haven't done to well when put up against fighters of varying martial arts. I think that the biggest problem is that boxers in general only train to fight other boxers. This doesn't seem to work to well in a situation where there are few rules. In a boxing match, your square up against somebody with big gloves on, who you know will only throw punches, who can't take you to the ground, who can't choke you, who can't punch you in the back of the head, who can't kick you, who can't.......... Do anything that might happen in a real life fight. I don't if you've seen many streetfights, but they don't resemble a boxing match. And that's what boxers train for. That being said, just because you know a bit of martial arts, doesn't make you a badass. And a boxer like Tyson who is quick, and has that kind of devestating punching power would be dangerous. But once again, if you've ever watched UFC, than you know that in real life, big guys who can punch DO get their asses kicked by guys who are a bit more rounded. Ok, I've rambled on enough now. Thank you for your time.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:08:34 PM EDT
I think you got it right, SteyrAug. I was referring to the fantasy world of movie martial arts tough guys, and I think Mike would eat any of them. He would pluck the nuts off Steve S as he was assuming the Crane position ( OK, shameless generalization) and devour them. As I observe it, and I am no "expert", when a martial arts "expert" gets in a ring when punches are not pulled, he gets his ass kicked by a boxer. Doesn't anyone remember the Kickboxing matches on cable TV a few years ago when the minimum number of kicks were mandated and they were mainly a chore to get done with so the real ass kicking could be accomplished? All show and no go..
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:13:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By retrodog: As hard as it is to believe,,, I am in total agreement with SteyrAUG on this one.
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Why hard to believe? Have I posted something less than accurate?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:18:32 PM EDT
StryrAUG, Just picking you from previous posts :) seamusmcoi, I watch them too. Pretty damn entertaining. And Chuck is my favorite badass of all martial artists. I just didn't really like the Walker show all that much. He is not very big though. In a "no rules" match, he'd kill Mikey. Just my opinion. At least in his prime anyway.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:18:48 PM EDT
Steven Seagal is for real! Both he and Jean-Claude Van Damme could more than likely wip Iron Mike.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:32:36 PM EDT
If you're talking anyone ever, then I believe mike tyson would be bruce lee's bitch. I don't think that's even up for debate. Modern day, I have my doubts about van damme. Unless they told him he'd get some coke if he beat mike, I don't think he could do it. Seagal? Dunno either. I'm sure he knows his stuff, but every time I saw his movies I saw the same moves over and over again. I'm also pretty sure, that somewhere in china, there is a 70+ year old woman who has praticed tai chi for 65 years and is capable of taking tyson.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:59:15 PM EDT
I think some of you guys are forgetting the power of the punch involved, you know, sort of like the difference between a 25 ACP and a 44mag? Sure some of these guys could beat a quick tattoo on Mikie's face, but they would PAY for it. BTW, don't forget Mike was kicking ass on the street at the age of 14 or so, and will probably be indicted for murder in the future..
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:15:51 PM EDT
Mike may have a powerful punch, but the legs are much more powerful than the upper body. A tyson punch could send you back a few feet, but a sliding sidekick by a fit, powerful martial artist could send mike reeling back 10-20 feet.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:15:57 PM EDT
I would honestly have to say that the best fighter for the job would have to be one who practices their style "Vale Tudo", basically no holds barred. It's a technical strike and shooting fight scenario (such as Muay Thai and Judo combined), but with real fists and kicks thrown. UFC and the old Toughman competitions are prime examples of this. The reason this guy comes out on top is due to his constant exposure to being hit and delivering equally painful blows - however, he still has a set instinctual style by which he fights, and may find a weakness in his opponents form when he will temporarily subdue the strikes to make a good shoot (tackle). From there, ground strikes or submission techniques are performed to defeat your opponent. My old Judo/JiuJitsu buddy took up Vale Tudo style fighting with his J/J. In doing so, it trained him to become a Chicago Superfight champion a few years ago, as well as a Pan-American gold medalist. Daily or weekly exposure is also key. I will probably take up Vale Tudo when I get out of school (and be a formidable opponent against a guy like Tyson), but at the moment a man of Tyson's caliber would beat me to the ground. Because I haven't been in a real fistfight in over a year, my body has forgotten what it feels like to take a consistent and natural blow to the face or stomach. Tyson probably takes 100 body punches a day! Your threshold of pain increases as your body is constantly beaten, which is yet another reason why boxers, IMHO and experience, will always be better fighters than dime-a-dozen martial artists.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:44:01 PM EDT
Hey Steyer, look this one up. In an old playboy (im sure you have it somewhere) there was an article about the Gracie family from Brazil. They are a family of legendary Judo experts who have over the years developed thier own form of judo. Anyway they have ALWAYS had an open invitaion to a no hold barred match against whoever is the current heavy weight boxing champ. Now there are plenty of reasons why it would be stupid for the champ to take them up on this and thus no one ever has. However the Gracies are confident that they could take any heavy weight boxer. In the article the Gracies say that 80-90 percent of all fights end up on the ground so that is what they train for. I watched one of the Gracies fight Ken Shamrock in an old UFC match. It was the main event and very boring. The reason for this is they spent all the time on the ground wrapped up. The Gracie guy was a skinny guy and Shamrock is huge. Slowly over the course of the match (like 20 min) Gracie kept wearing him down with these tiny little kicks that looked like they couldn't have hurt but the point was they were slow and methodical trama to the kidneys and after 20 min fuked Shamrock up big time.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:18:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CounterStrike: I watched one of the Gracies fight Ken Shamrock in an old UFC match. It was the main event and very boring. The reason for this is they spent all the time on the ground wrapped up. The Gracie guy was a skinny guy and Shamrock is huge. Slowly over the course of the match (like 20 min) Gracie kept wearing him down with these tiny little kicks that looked like they couldn't have hurt but the point was they were slow and methodical trama to the kidneys and after 20 min fuked Shamrock up big time.
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*Yawn*, yeah and then a few years later Ken Shamrock methodically punched and kicked him into submission. Not only did Royce Gracie lose that match (it was a draw, but everybody knew who the REAL winner was), but Ken broke Royce's spirit (among other things) so much that he NEVER returned to fight in the UFC again. He saw that a more well-rounded, battle hardened warrior defeated him even on the ground. Gracie didn't know it was like to really get the crap beaten out of him. At the end of this match, you couldn't have told Royce apart from anybody else, due to the [b]severe bleeding and trauma[/b] to his face. All of the ground submissions and tactics in the world didn't prevent him from getting a beating, and scare him from the sport alltogether.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:45:06 PM EDT
Back to the original topic: Shamrock or Gracie against Tyson?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:48:12 PM EDT
Steven Seagal is the real deal he just dose not put on a big show like the others so it will not look as cool. Now My man Mr. Lee would bet the hell out of Mike Tyson, Big duff would never put his hands on him. Chuck is to damn old, and the other guys are a side show[:o)]
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:48:27 PM EDT
Interesting question. I'll throw my opinion in for what it;s worth. Could the average hollywood kung fu guy beat ANY top ten ranked heavyweights? Not a chance in the world. There are some exceptions as noted. Such as Segal was serious about his art. And Chuck Norris, in his day, was a serious competitor in an art where being hit was part of the deal. Bruce Lee was a honed athlete - but way small man. But, one factor hasn't been mentioned yet. Despite our opinions of Tyson as a human, there is no doubt that he is: a) a world class athlete b) a seriously destructive fighter c) an animal when he is losing (watch your ears) The only way Segal, or Norris, or anyone in the world can beat Tyson is to either break his leg before he turns your brains to jello (which a quality martial artist MIGHT be able to accomplish), or defeat him on the ground. Good luck on either count. I bet Mike has seen shit like this tried on him in his life. And I don't think he has a problem trading in pain. There aren't many people alive that can stand in against Tyson and hold their own for more than a few seconds. That's why folks pay money to watch. James
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 9:17:02 PM EDT
For the people that said Segal and Van Damme could beat Tyson you forgot to put a [:D] at the end of your post. Some people don't pick up on sarcasm. The guy that beat up Van Damme at a strip club was Chuck Zito. [url]http://www.chuckzito.com/default2.htm[/url] If you watch the series OZ on HBO he plays the character named Chuck Pancamo.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 9:25:22 PM EDT
Boxers are easily defeated by skilled martial artists as boxers cannot handle kicks, limb locks, throws, or groundwork. I remember one night in my youth practicing hapkido at the dojo when the drunk boxing instructor down the street brought his boys down for a "challenge" as they thought karate was bullshit. Our head black belt student took out one fool after another til the boxers did not to play anymore. They boxers just could not handle the foot strikes by this 18 year old 7th dan hapkido black belt from Korea, even though the boxers were golden gloves quality fighters. The boxers never bothered us again.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 9:27:55 PM EDT
Counterstrike, already well aware of who the Gracies are. On a side note, the reason boxers often fair poorly in Ultimate Grabass or whatever, is because they lack finishing moves, especially when taken to the ground. They only are familiar with their "sport" context. Another thing, boxers rarely condition their hands and as a result usually break them in real fights. In the ring with tape and gloves their hands are protected. In actual combat they deliver strikes with more force than their hands can sustain. This is one area REAL martial artists take signifigant advantage. Those who have hardened their hands can deliver forceful strikes without injury. If these same martial artists condition themselves on a level of the average boxer and train with the same realism, they become very formidable.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 10:41:08 PM EDT
I disgree with jimmybcool's post regarding Bruce Lee being smaller sized person therefore not as effective against larger opponant. I was taught it is the "speed" of the punch or kick that matters the most.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 11:21:36 PM EDT
Hellraiser I have a story close to that, but the opposite occured. A good friend of mine ran a boxing and exercise gym (of which I was a member). He invited the local martial arts instructor who is quite respected in South Texas to come over for a demonstration on different fighting styles. The Martial arts fella attemped to show that a smaller man could used his training to beat a larger person who was much stronger, hence the discussion going on in this thread. Too bad for the guy, my friend whooped his ass, for not only was he a very good boxer, but was the Oklahoma state champ in arm wrestling, and a great mat wrestler. He also could take massive punishment to his head from direct kicks, and I think that was the key. I think the bigger you are and the more punnishment you can take, the more fights you will win, minus the death moves from the martial arts fellas. My brother is very much in to Kung Fu and he and his instructor agree with me on that one.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 4:31:44 AM EDT
Be kinda interesting to see a match between Tyson and a 1970-1980 era Bolo Yueng...
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 5:06:40 AM EDT
Steven Segal.... In the early nineties, Spy Magazine dedicated an entire issue to him. The magazine tore him apart. It debunked all of his lies and bullshit. He claimed to have been a Navy SEAL, but can't even use a compass. He's a fat, new-age clown with a pony tail, who could never stand up to a real fighter. Frank Shamrock would destroy him and Tyson.... (....then again, Tyson can sure take a punch.)
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:02:37 AM EDT
Bruce Lee was one of the hardest "hitters" of all time. Although he was small, his technique and dicipline more than made up for his lack of size. Bruce Lee would [b]DESTROY[/b] Tyson. Tyler
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:32:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tylerdurden1201: Bruce Lee was one of the hardest "hitters" of all time. Although he was small, his technique and dicipline more than made up for his lack of size. Bruce Lee would [b]DESTROY[/b] Tyson. Tyler
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Interesting. Who said Lee was one of the hardest hitters of all time? His movies? When did he compete in any ring? What was his record? These debates are all hypothetical. But your statement above can not be supported in any way. Lee was a toned athlete. He was serious about his craft. He certainly could defend himself against the ordinary man. I have a great deal of respect for Lee as an entertainer and martial artist. But......... I don't think there is any evidence that he was "one of the hardest "hitters" of all time". He was Hong Kongs Cha cha champion. Look, martial arts do not make someone superman. And despite what women might tell you, size DOES matter. I doubt Lee would last long unless he did his utmost to stay away from Tyson. And if it was a ring, well, Tyson is trained in cutting off ring angles to deliver punishment. In Lee's case, he wouldn't stand a chance on the ground (almost 2:1 weight advantage) and unless he could break Tysons leg from a distance, he would have his brains turned into jelly. IMHO. James
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 8:21:48 AM EDT
JIMMYBCOOL:"Interesting. Who said Lee was one of the hardest hitters of all time? His movies? When did he compete in any ring? What was his record? These debates are all hypothetical. But your statement above can not be supported in any way. Lee was a toned athlete. He was serious about his craft. He certainly could defend himself against the ordinary man. I have a great deal of respect for Lee as an entertainer and martial artist. But......... I don't think there is any evidence that he was "one of the hardest "hitters" of all time". He was Hong Kongs Cha cha champion. Look, martial arts do not make someone superman. And despite what women might tell you, size DOES matter. I doubt Lee would last long unless he did his utmost to stay away from Tyson. And if it was a ring, well, Tyson is trained in cutting off ring angles to deliver punishment. In Lee's case, he wouldn't stand a chance on the ground (almost 2:1 weight advantage) and unless he could break Tysons leg from a distance, he would have his brains turned into jelly. IMHO." Ok let's take this one of a time: Lee was the best there has ever been and thats the only thing that got him in to martial arts movies(he help start them in America) Ever one in pro fighting knows that Lee was the hardest hitters. Mr. Lee would dance all over that big ape and there is not a damn thing he could do about it. It's not size man it's speed, put Mike in with a Cruser and you will see Mike's ass bleed! In the end Mike will win but it will be to fast for him to win easy. Mike Tysons of the world just like the Gracie Ju-jitsu guys think that total stoping foce is the best way the win a fight, this is the OLD way that Mr. Lee talk about. So no matter how much power Mike has and no matter how good of a hold some one has or what ever it's all for not, it will do guys like that no good to punch some one in the face if by the time there fist gets there their face is not.[:)]
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 8:46:40 AM EDT
You know who my vote would go to in whooping Tysons arse? Jet Li Have become very interested in him lately. It appears that his style is pure, he is extremely fast and most importantly by all appearances he is a very humble person. While filming Lethal Weapon 4, he was interviewed and he stated that the camera could only record him punching 3 or 4 times, in a row. When in actuality, he was punching 10-15 times. His speed was too fast for the camera. Yes, I know it's all movies but when you have been training like this since a young child, you have to be good. IMHO - Jet would destroy Tyson!
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 9:14:25 AM EDT
Martial arts doesn't mean sh*t in streetfighting! Also good boxers can take quite a few punches, thats what they train for. While the boxer takes a couple kicks they move in close. Once in close the boxer is gonna clean the karate-man's clock. DING-DONG!
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 9:35:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2001 9:35:14 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Boxers don't train for, or have the muscle memory to instinctually block LOW kicks. A good martial artist would cave-in the side of a good boxer's knee with a round-house, before the boxer could react. End of fight.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 10:21:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: Martial arts doesn't mean sh*t in streetfighting! Also good boxers can take quite a few punches, thats what they train for. While the boxer takes a couple kicks they move in close. Once in close the boxer is gonna clean the karate-man's clock. DING-DONG!
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REAL martial artist, a rarity these days, train in all ranges and can take quite a bit of punishment. You should not make blankets statements. I personally have done a handful of people quite a bit of damage and not in the ring, but in actual combat. A couple clearly demonstrated boxing and martial arts skills. They were severely injured despite their ability.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:12:22 AM EDT
I agree that streetfighting is a whole differant deal than sport fighting of any type. There are "sport" martial arts that people take that emphasize defendeing yourself then there are "fighting" martial arts that simply teach you to fight till you kill the unlucky Fuck@r. I would like to see an "old school" Navy Seal fight or Soviet Spetznaz fight tyson to the edge of death and see who wins. Tyson, I feel, would be the lifeless bloody bag of sh!t on the ground Fight to win, ANY tactics are allowed. My dad always told me "dont feel bad about kicking a man when he's down, you don't want him to get back up." BrenLover
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:13:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 11:39:33 AM EDT
"Once in close the boxer is gonna clean the karate-man's clock" Dude Karate is a game and streetfighting is a myth. A real martial artist does not want to punch you he will barke some thing and them beat on you till you stop fighting. Now a "Streeetfighter" is just a punck with out the dicipline to learn how to really fight like a man so he junmps you in an ally or something. M16MAN is on to something read his post again[8D]
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:19:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MoleEye: ass? Sorry. I just went into the kitchen for a refreshing cool one and noticed my wife was accidentally watching a Steven Segal flick. Was he not the most non credible martial arts dork of all time? Ahahahahah!!
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I don't know how he would fare against Tyson, but Seagal is actually at least a 5th Dan (that's [i]fifth level black belt[/i]) in Aikido. Word is that a lot of stunt men come away with broken and dislocate limbs after Seagal does his thing in filming a scene, and for a master of an art that emphasizes pacifism, he certainly seems to need a little work in that area. I read a book by Jay Gluck, [b]Zen Combat[/b]. Apparently he knew Seagal in Japan when both were training there. Gluck says that Seagal earned his belt and stripes honestly, but then he married a Japanese woman whose mother owned one of the finer [i]dojos[/i] in the area, becoming the [i]de facto[/i] dojo master. Either way, I'd pay to watch the fight!! [whacko][smash] the shooter
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:29:41 PM EDT
Been reading some of the other responses regarding size and ability. I've have a little exposure to martial arts, enough to be dangerous mostly to myself, but I've noticed that for a small martial artist to defeat a larger opponent, they must strike a decisive and debilitating blow early on, like to the knees or feet. Speed and mobility seem to be their only advantage, and if they get caught/cornered by a larger guy, they're toast. I've read the great stories of men like Ueshiba Morehei who could supposedly fend of a dozen 250 lb men with one finger, but damn if I've seen anybody do it. The closest I've seen was that 'little' 205 lb. Gracey Ju-Jitsu guy who wore Mark "The Hammer" Coleman into anerobic deficit, then K.O.ed Coleman with a roundhouse kick to the chin. Coleman was so tired he couldn't even raise his hands in defense. the shooter
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:39:24 PM EDT
I once saw this story on TV, dont remember what station or show, about this Chinaman, who was about 80-90 years old, part of his training for years was conditioning his hands/knuckles by punching steel blocks hundreds of times per day. His hands looke dlike they went through the mill, they were huge/swollen from the "training" over the decades. There was part of the story where the guy who taught him was in a restauraunt I think, when some young "punk" super-mega blackbelt chinaman challenged him. As the story went, the old man got up walked over to him, deflected the attack and killed the young guy with one hit. Fact/Fiction? Who knows. If it was true, it would be funny to see tyson drop dead from a single blow from a 90 year old guy.[:d] BrenLover
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:47:26 PM EDT
Gracey Ju-Jitsu sucks! ti's a game. If your life was on the line would you open your self up to a 2nd guy and just try and twist a guys foot till he gives up. The Gracey boys are funny if you watch that "ultimate fight" BS you see them get their faces get all fucked up befor they can get a guy down. You can kick their ass the same way you can a Ju-do guy, just walk they get frustrated fast and f@#$%up!
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 1:49:43 PM EDT
I dont think you guys are considering the fact that the martial artist will go for kill early on. Knees, throat, groin etc. Any one of those will debilitate the boxer and its clean up time. If the boxer can prolong the fight and get a punch in, Tyson would win. Also I question Tyson's mental ability. Usually its the smarter fighter that wins. You know for a fact it was a little guy who invented the gun to beat the big guy that was taking all the women!
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:12:41 PM EDT
From what I understand, Seagall has taken Aikido, modified into his own variance and made it a much more "harder" dicipline. I.E, the bone breaking moves and what not. If I am not mistaken, it's called something differant also. I think an aricle in Black Belt magazine mentioned this in an article about people who change a style but changes it's name to show the variance and keep the original style in it's purest form. You know Krav Maga is a lot of what you guys are talking about but may not know it. No frills just a straight take 'em out and finish 'em dicipline. Our team medic was talking to some of the other firemen at his department about Krav; the benefits, training regime, philosophy and what not. One guy was listening in, had taken serveral years of Tae Kwon Do and challenged him to a sparing match. Our medic told him, he was not interested and that he, the Tae Kwon Do, didn't really want to go this route. Well, he kept persisting and finally our medic agreed. They went out behing the FD and got loosened up. Well, the TKD guy stopped and bowed................ our medic kicked him in the face, took him down and started pounding him. The TKD guy finally was able to eek out that he gives and was in shock at the speed, violence and utter ruthlessness of our medic. Our medic just plainly told him, that is what KM is all about. No rules, do what is needed to end the fight, immediatly and then get away. Lesson learned. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:19:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: I can't think of his name right off, but I'd like to see the guy who played Darth Maul in a fight with Van Damm or some other showy matial artist. I bet that would be a sight to see. BTW, was his name Ray Park or something like that? brouhaha
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Yeah, it would be park. Though he's got an unfair advantage because he'd bring a sword! He's a student of blade techniques - which is partly why he got the Darth Maul job. He's also has a gymnastics background - which helps with the nitrogen-assisted jumps. Too bad his voice was too high and had to be dubbed. Not somebody I'd rate as one of the most fearsome, but eh, probably still enough to maul Tyson.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:20:40 PM EDT
OK, I'm getting a lot of entertainment out of this thread so I'll add my two cents too [:)] : First of all, I don't think having a "Mike Tyson v. martial arts master" comparison is the same as a "trained boxer vs. martial arts master" comparison. Mike Tyson is (was?) not a normal boxer. I've met Mike Tyson, I've seen Mike Tyson spar and fight....he is not normal. Mike Tyson is a man who has an incredible athletic ability, which is unfortunately coupled with an intense desire to hurt people. Boxing is not and will never be a sport to Mike Tyson. I know a few well-trained martial artists (Ju-Jitsu), one good light-heavy boxer, my brother who is a 210lb. competitive kickboxer, as well as myself who has some amateur level ring experience....we are all aware and make no bones about the fact that Mike Tyson would eat any one of us alive if he was so inclined. Although I respect people who can "take care of themselves" and have worked very hard to train in martial arts or other fighting style, I think many of you don't quite understand the physiological effects of a 225lb. Mike Tyson strike (or of any fist, foot, crowbar, baseball bat, etc.) on a human body. Mike Tyson can kill....not just give a black eye to, or break your jaw....with ONE SINGLE solid hit. I can tell you with fair certainty that any man, be they Steven Seagal (fat/out of shape), Jean-Claude Van-Idiot (sissy/gay), Bruce Lee (tiny), Chuck Norris (oldie but goodie), or whoever, would suffer one of the following if hit solidly in the head/face at close range by an enraged Mike Tyson: 1. Massive concussive trauma to the brain; 2. Fractured jaw, skull, face, etc. 3. Severed spinal cord from the violent impact to the head (similar to a football neck injury) I would say that any man less than probably 225lbs. (muscle, not fat) with less than a 19-20" muscular neck would most likely have a severed spinal cord. That is regardless of the fighting skills they possess. That is why boxers, wrestlers, and football players have huge necks. Neck strength has a direct relationship with the ability to suffer head and neck trauma without serious injury. Human physiology doesn't change with skill, only with bone stength and muscle strength. Ducking or dodging the blow is not a realistic option either; Mike Tyson has the speed of the best middleweight with the power of a full-bore heavyweight. Most martial artist I know train for speed, agility, and accuracy, they are generally not thickly muscled. This would be counter-productive to their fighting style but conversely they would be unable to physically survive that violent of an impact to their head/neck. Now, a world-class martial artist would have a chance if they kept their distance and got in a few early, strategic blows. Distance would be the key because as any of you guys with martial arts experience know, kicks are not feasible when the fighting is nose-to-nose. Of course, being the offensive, thug, A-hole he is, Mike Tyson would undoubtably throw the first punch. And many apologizes to you Bruce Lee fans, but if Bruce were around today and got into an all-out fight with Big Mike, Bruce would be a homicide victim in short order. Ken Shamrock would be the only martial artist I consider a viable fantasy opponent to an enraged Mike Tyson; then Tyson would probably have to bite off his ear and threaten to eat his children.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:20:49 PM EDT
PakRat, Krav Maga is what I have been thinking of taking, there is a regional training center for it in Buffalo, about 70 miles from me. Have not found out much more than what I have read about it. BrenLover
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:52:18 PM EDT
BMANSAR15, But, didn't you read the above??? Bruce Lee is the hardest hitting guy in the world. Two guys said so and their credentials are, well I don't know actually. Wonder if either ever really stepped into a ring and know the difference between looks great on film and world class talent. I do know Tyson is a world class athlete and an animal. I would not get into the ring with him for any money - and that is with gloves. With bare hands I would take out as much life insurance as I could cause I love my wife and I know it's 50/50 she's gonna collect. My guess is if they were in a ring, Lee could survive several rounds, until he was hit, or until he actually managed to get in a damaging (probably knee or lower leg) strike. But if Tyson hits him first - "turn out the lights, the parties over". And I would wager heavily on Tyson. James
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 3:17:55 PM EDT
jimmybcool... I said he was one of the hardest "hitters" of all time. Not "the" hardest hitter of all time. I based my opinion on reading over 12 or so books on Bruce Lee, Martial Arts, and documented testimony of people who knew the man. (this is known as research) He was foremost a fighter, then an actor. Sorry if you choose not agree with me, but you don't need to run your mouth like a little bitch about it. [;D] Tyler
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 3:46:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tylerdurden1201: jimmybcool... I said he was one of the hardest "hitters" of all time. Not "the" hardest hitter of all time. I based my opinion on reading over 12 or so books on Bruce Lee, Martial Arts, and documented testimony of people who knew the man. (this is known as research) He was foremost a fighter, then an actor. Sorry if you choose not agree with me, but you don't need to run your mouth like a little bitch about it. [;D] Tyler
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Hmmm, foremost a fighter. Ahh, what was his record? Where did he fight profesionally? I bow down to your superior research and won't "run my mouth like a little bitch". Ahm, but you do have answers to these questions, right? James
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